Eph. 2:8-9 parallel with Titus 3:5 on good works

[The Biblicist]

Read Galatians 3:23, BEFORE THIS FAITH CAME…

You can't deal with the scriptures that refute, repudiate, expose your theological talking points for what they are - demonic doctrine! No, you have to go PIT scripture against scripture.

Galatians 3:23 is in the context of the purpose of the law. The law was not given to provide eternal life (v. 21) it was given to define sin and lead a person to Christ. This is God's design for the law then and now for INDIVIDUALS. Faith comes only after you stop trying to gain eternal life by keeping the law. As long as you are attempting to be justified by keeping the law there is NO FAITH because Paul says in the very same context:

"The Law IS NOT OF FAITH" - Ga. 3:12

Therefore FAITH CAN ONLY COME after you stop attempting to keep the law to be justified and only after you unsuccessful attempts lead you to Christ and Christ alone! THAT IS THE CONTEXT which you are perverting, denying and pitting against clear scrptues that explicitly condemn your demonic doctrines.

 

[The Biblicist]

The Old Testament looked for the promise, the promise that had NOT yet come. The promise did not come until Jesus came to the earth.

you can't deal with the text that calls your position a lie. Hence, you simple rattle off your FALSE THEOLOGICAL TALKING POINTS just as democrats can't deal with facts so they simply rattle off their POLITICAL TALKING POINTS.

You directly and openly contradict what both Acts 10:43 and Hebrews 4:2 explicitly and clearly state. I could have referenced many other texts that say the same thing (Lk. 24:24-25; 43-45; Acts 26:22-23; Rom. 10:16; Acts 8:26-35).

 

[The Biblicist]

I gave you scripture - Acts 10:43! WHO ASKED FOR YOUR WORTHLESS PERSONAL OPINION? Acts 10:43 directly contradicts your WORTHLESS PERSONAL OPINION.

1. Who is "he" according to the biblical context of Acts 10:43 not ACCORDING TO YOUR WORTHLESS PERSONAL OPINION.

2. Who are the prophets giving witness to in Acts 10:43 not your WORTHLESS PERSONAL OPINION!

3. Whose name are the believing upon in Acts 10:43 not YOUR WORTHLES PERSONAL OPINION!

4. What are they receving by faith in Him in Acts 10:43 not YOUR WORTHLESS PERSONAL OPINION!

You are a total hypocrit! You demand from everyone else Scritpure but then when you are given scripture you IGNORE IT and then give your WORTHLESS PERSONAL OPINION that directly contradicts the very scripture given you! Show from Acts 10:43 your view rather than contradicting it by your own worthless personal opinions.

You cannot answer these questions above, not because the answer is spelled out clearly in the text itself, but because YOUR FALSE THEOLOGICAL TALKING POINTS won't allow you to be HONEST with the text.

 

[The Biblicist]

Don't give me your TALIKING POINTS and WORTHLESS PERSONAL OPINION. I gave you hebrews 4:2 which contradicts YOUR PERSONAL WORTHLESS OPINION!

QUESTIONS:

1. Is it is "THE GOSPEL" that was preached unto them, or those described in the wilderness under Moses in Hebrews 3 or is the writer of Hebrews lying in Hebrews 4;2 when he sayd "the gospel was preached as well as UNTO THEM"???

I don't want your theological talking points or your personal worthless opinion but what does that text actually state??


2. Was it their failure to mix "faith" with it in their heart as the only reason
for their condemnation? What does the text state?

I don't want your theological talking points or your personal worthless opinion but what does the text actually say?

It says THE VERY SAME GOSPEL which was preached after Pentecost was preached before Pentecost and required the very same "FAITH." Does the gospel preached after Pentecost require faith in Christ? Then according to this text it required faith in Christ before Pentecost just as Acts 10:43 says.

I don't give two cents for your theological talking points or your worthless personal opinion when it directly contradicts what Acts 10:43 and Hebrews 4:2 clearly and explictly says to the contrary!

Be honest with these Biblical texts instead of contradicting what they say!

You can't answer the questions, not because the text does not spell the correct answers out clearly but because your FALSE THEOLOGICAL TALKING POINTS won't harmonize with what the text clearly and explicitly states.

 

[The Biblicist]

I gave you scripture - Acts 10:43! WHO ASKED FOR YOUR WORTHLESS PERSONAL OPINION? Acts 10:43 directly contradicts your WORTHLESS PERSONAL OPINION.

1. Who is "he" according to the biblical context of Acts 10:43 not ACCORDING TO YOUR WORTHLESS PERSONAL OPINION.

2. Who are the prophets giving witness to in Acts 10:43 not your WORTHLESS PERSONAL OPINION!

3. Whose name are the believing upon in Acts 10:43 not YOUR WORTHLES PERSONAL OPINION!

4. What are they receving by faith in Him in Acts 10:43 not YOUR WORTHLESS PERSONAL OPINION!

You are a total hypocrit! You demand from everyone else Scritpure but then when you are given scripture you IGNORE IT and then give your WORTHLESS PERSONAL OPINION that directly contradicts the very scripture given you! Show from Acts 10:43 your view rather than contradicting it by your own worthless personal opinions.

Readers,

Moriah cannot deal with Acts 10:43 and Hebrews 4:2 or Acts 26:22-23 or Romans 4:1-3; or Gal. 3:6-8 or any other New Testament text that claims that the same gospel of Christ was preached and believed by those from the time of Abel to Moses, much less, from Moses to Christ.

Why? Because Moriah's FALSE THEOLOGICAL TALKING POINTS or his PERSONAL OPINIONS directly contradict these scriptures.

Here is a guy that rebukes others when they do not deal with the words of a text he places before them and rebukes them for giving their opinion but that is exactly what he has done with these scripture. He ignores them and gives his worthless personal contradicting opinions or pits scripture against scriptures.

That is what all false teachers must do when faced with undeniable Biblical scriptures that openly and clearly contradict their theological talking points.

WHATEVER RESPONSE HE GIVES just compare that response with what these texts explicitly say and if it contradicts what these texts say then his response, his use of other texts are FALSE!

 

[The Biblicist]

Peter does not agree with you:

"To him GIVE ALL THE PROPHETS WITNESS that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH UPON HIS NAME shall receive remission of sins" - Acts 10:43

The writer of Hebrews does not agree with you:

"For unto us was the gospel preached AS WELL AS UNTO THEM...." - Heb. 4:2


Paul does not agree with you:

"EVEN AS Abraham believed" - Gal. 3:6-8; Rom. 4:12-13.




No, you never said it was "a" law you said it was "THE law"! Go back and read your own posts.





False! Both Jesus, Peter and Paul explicitly speaking to THE JEWS said that no Jew under the Old Covenant was EVER JUSTIFIED by keeping it:

Ac 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses
.

Joh 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Rom. 3:19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Therefore, NO JEW or GENTILE could be justified under the Old Covenant Law. If they cannot be justified under it then they cannot be TRUE children of God or go to heaven or have their sins remitted.








The New Covenant is the "EVERLASTING covenant" - Heb. 13:20 and the ONLY WAY to be saved by anyone at anytime between Genesis to Revelation because as previously proved NO FLESH was ever saved, justified under the OLD COVENANT because the Old Covenant was NEVER GIVEN TO SAVE ANYONE (Gal. 3:21).

Proof? Abraham is given as the example of ALL TRUE BELIEVERS who were justified "BY FAITH" in Christ (Gal. 3:6-8; Rom. 4:1-25).

Moriah, when did Abraham live? Before the cross? Before the Law of Moses? Before their was a Jew! Abraham was a GENTILE.

Deal with the evidence because it proves you are wrong!

We have proved that NNE prior to the Cross was ever justified before God by the Old Covenant - NNE was ever saved by the Old Covenant.

1. Jesus said it was never obeyed
2. Paul said the Jews never were justified under it.

Hence, the Old Covenant NEVER PROVIDED SALVATION FOR ANYONE.

We proved that Abraham who lived 430 years before the Old Covenant was ratified and established through Moses was justified by faith BEFORE he was circumcised and thus circumcision played no role in his justification by faith any more than baptism plays any role in our justification by faith.

The only covenant that provides salvaiton is the NEW COVENANT and it is called the "EVERLASTING covenant" of Christ's blood because all Old Testament saints PRIOR TO ABRAHAM and circumcision were saved by faith in Christ (Acts 10:43) as much as the non-Jewish but GENTILE Abraham was justfied by faith in Christ BEFORE circumcision and BEFORE the Old Covenant ever existed. The Jews under teh Old Covenant were never saved or justified by law keeping but by faith in Christ as preached in the SAME gospel we preach (Heb. 4:2).

Moriahs THEOLOGICAL TALKING POINTS are the result of perverting the Word of God and misinterpreting the scriptures because his position demands that all prior to the cross must have been saved by the Old Covenant which the New Testament writers denounce, repudiate and deny!

 

[Moriah]

You can't deal with the scriptures that refute, repudiate, expose your theological talking points for what they are - demonic doctrine! No, you have to go PIT scripture against scripture.

I speak God’s Truth. You are the one who pits scripture against scripture.

Galatians 3:23 is in the context of the purpose of the law. The law was not given to provide eternal life (v. 21) it was given to define sin and lead a person to Christ. This is God's design for the law then and now for INDIVIDUALS. Faith comes only after you stop trying to gain eternal life by keeping the law.

Being saved then and now is about believing and obeying, that is the gospel, that is Christ.

As long as you are attempting to be justified by keeping the law there is NO FAITH because Paul says in the very same context:

"The Law IS NOT OF FAITH" - Ga. 3:12

The law is not based on faith. However, those who had faith in God, they still had to obey the law. Jesus redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
You see, you keep teaching that the Jews and Gentiles were saved in the Old Testament by the Holy Spirit indwelling them, that is not true, you go against scripture. Scripture says there was a promise, and the promise was given in the New Covenant. The Old Testament people were saved by believing and obeying God, in the New Testament we are saved the same way, by believing and obeying God, and now Gentiles can have salvation.

Therefore FAITH CAN ONLY COME after you stop attempting to keep the law to be justified and only after you unsuccessful attempts lead you to Christ and Christ alone! THAT IS THE CONTEXT which you are perverting, denying and pitting against clear scrptues that explicitly condemn your demonic doctrines.

Faith in Jesus Christ was not revealed until the New Testament, see Galatians 3:23.

 

[Moriah]

You directly and openly contradict what both Acts 10:43 and Hebrews 4:2 explicitly and clearly state. I could have referenced many other texts that say the same thing (Lk. 24:24-25;

Luke 24:24-25 is about Jesus being prophesied in the Old Testament. That does not mean faith in Jesus Christ was possible.

The Old Testament righteous people who died before Jesus came to earth, they did not in their time get to see the promised salvation through Jesus Christ, the grace that was to come (1 Peter 1:10-12; 2 Peter 1:19; Romans 16:25-26; 1 Corinthians 4:1).

Paul says about the faithful in the Old Testament times, "These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect."

Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 1 Peter 1:10

trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:11

It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things. 1 Peter 1:12

Did you read that Biblicist? Are you now going to stop believing falseness?

43-45; Acts 26:22-23; Rom. 10:16; Acts 8:26-35).

Jesus was prophesized about in the Old Testament, but that does not mean people were able to believe in Jesus yet.

The Old Testament looked for the promise, the promise that had NOT yet come. The promise did not come until Jesus came to the earth.
Read this powerful and beautiful scripture…

And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 2 Peter 2:8-9.

WE HAVE THE WORD OF THE PROPHETS MADE CERTAIN. As to a light shining in a dark place, UNTIL THE DAY DAWNS AND THE MORNING STAR RISES IN YOUR HEARTS. The morning star could not rise in hearts until the morning star appeared fully, and that was when Jesus came and was revealed .

 

[Moriah]

We have proved that NNE prior to the Cross was ever justified before God by the Old Covenant - NNE was ever saved by the Old Covenant.

1. Jesus said it was never obeyed
2. Paul said the Jews never were justified under it.

Hence, the Old Covenant NEVER PROVIDED SALVATION FOR ANYONE.

A person could obey the works of the law like circumcision, and sin offerings, but that did not tell what was in their hearts. A person could do the works of the law and still desire to sin. The works of the law justified no one.

We proved that Abraham who lived 430 years before the Old Covenant was ratified and established through Moses was justified by faith BEFORE he was circumcised and thus circumcision played no role in his justification by faith any more than baptism plays any role in our justification by faith.

Abraham was justified by faith and his actions. Abraham was righteous for believing and obeying God. Faith in Jesus was not yet possible. Even though Abraham believed in God, Abraham did what God said, and that included circumcision.

The only covenant that provides salvaiton is the NEW COVENANT and it is called the "EVERLASTING covenant" of Christ's blood because all Old Testament saints PRIOR TO ABRAHAM and circumcision were saved by faith in Christ (Acts 10:43)

There are prophets in the New Testament!

as much as the non-Jewish but GENTILE Abraham was justfied by faith in Christ BEFORE circumcision and BEFORE the Old Covenant ever existed.

Gentiles were excluded from God and Christ in the Old Testament. Why do you KEEP ignoring scripture!
Ephesians 2:12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

The Jews under teh Old Covenant were never saved or justified by law keeping but by faith in Christ as preached in the SAME gospel we preach (Heb. 4:2).

Moriahs THEOLOGICAL TALKING POINTS are the result of perverting the Word of God and misinterpreting the scriptures because his position demands that all prior to the cross must have been saved by the Old Covenant which the New Testament writers denounce, repudiate and deny!

Biblicist is making things up about me that are not true.
The gospel that was preached in the Old Testament is the same gospel that is preached in the New Testament, and that is to BELIEVE GOD AND OBEY. That is what saved then, and that is what saves now.

Oh how I love the Word of God!

 

[The Biblicist]

I speak God’s Truth.

God's Word is truth and YOU DO NOT SPEAK IT but contradict it by WORTHLESS PERSON OPINIONS that are directly in contradiction to what these scriptures literally state to the contrary!

You are the one who pits scripture against scripture.

show one single time I have ever pitted one text against another!

The law is not based on faith. However, those who had faith in God, they still had to obey the law.

I just quoted Jesus, Peter and Paul who flatly denied they EVER KEPT THE LAW and and that NO FLESH can keep the law!!! You are directly calling Jesus, Peter and Paul absolute liars. The Bible denies that anyone can keep the law and yet you are saying the very opposite by your own WORTHLESS PERSONAL OPINIONS.

Faith in Jesus Christ was not revealed until the New Testament, see Galatians 3:23.

That is an absolute lie straight out of hell. Jesus explicitly says that Abraham saw his day by faith and that the covenant made with Abraham was by faith "IN CHRIST" - Gal. 3:17 - 430 years before the flood.

Acts 10:43 explicitly says that that all prophets gave witness to Christ and whosoever believed upon his name received remission of sins. You deny this!

 

[The Biblicist]

Gentiles were excluded from God and Christ in the Old Testament. Why do you KEEP ignoring scripture!

Here are some Gentiles who believed in Christ before the law:

1. Abel,
2. Seth
3. Noah
4. Abraham was a Gentile

These are all prophets and "TO HIM give ALL THE PROPHETS WITNESS that whosoever BELIEVETH UPON HIS NAME SHALL RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS" - Acts 10:433

You are making Peter a liar.

You are denying that Abel, Seth, Noah, Abraham were ALL GENTILES and did not believe in the gospel of Christ but God's Word explicitly says they all did.

Oh how I love the Word of God!

You love to PERVERT the Word of God and deny Jesus Christ by your false gospel of works.

 

[Moriah]

God's Word is truth and YOU DO NOT SPEAK IT but contradict it by WORTHLESS PERSON OPINIONS that are directly in contradiction to what these scriptures literally state to the contrary!

You are spending more time personally attacking than discussing the scriptures. Stop your irritating rants. Debating with you is an uncomfortable miserable experience.
Give an answer to the scriptures I gave you. You rant and speak all kinds of slander, but you ignore most the scriptures I give.
Here, I will post again some scriptures I gave you to explain the truth. Explain them with your understanding, and let the readers decide for themselves.
The Old Testament righteous people who died before Jesus came to earth, they did not in their time get to see the promised salvation through Jesus Christ, the grace that was to come (1 Peter 1:10-12; 2 Peter 1:19; Romans 16:25-26; 1 Corinthians 4:1).

I just quoted Jesus, Peter and Paul who flatly denied they EVER KEPT THE LAW and and that NO FLESH can keep the law!!! You are directly calling Jesus, Peter and Paul absolute liars. The Bible denies that anyone can keep the law and yet you are saying the very opposite by your own WORTHLESS PERSONAL OPINIONS.

Why do you have no control over yourself? Stop with the hostile foul-mouthed attacks.
People obeyed the law. Is it in the law to be circumcised? Yes. Did people obey the law and are circumcised? YES. Are sin offerings in the law? Yes. Did people give sin offerings? Yes. Was it in the law to observe special days? Yes. Did people observe special days? Yes.
The law was to be obeyed. It does not mean people did not break the law, but it sure does not mean what you are claiming, and that is no one ever kept the law. That is just a dead argument from you.
Matthew 5:19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

That is an absolute lie straight out of hell. Jesus explicitly says that Abraham saw his day by faith and that the covenant made with Abraham was by faith "IN CHRIST" - Gal. 3:17 - 430 years before the flood.

You say I speak a lie straight out of hell for saying “Faith in Jesus Christ was not revealed until the New Testament, see Galatians 3:23.”
Now everyone, read Galatians 3:23, and tell me if I spoke different the scriptures:
Galatians 3:23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.
Galatians 3:24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.
The scriptures plainly say BEFORE THIS FAITH CAME, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until FAITH should be revealed. Faith in Christ was not revealed until Jesus came and the good news was preached.

Acts 10:43 explicitly says that that all prophets gave witness to Christ and whosoever believed upon his name received remission of sins. You deny this

Acts 10:43 does not say what you say it does. The prophets in the Old Testament prophesied about what was going to be, not of what was! Prophets in the New Testament along with the Apostles, with Jesus Christ as chief cornerstone laid the foundation…the foundation was not laid in the Old Testament, as Biblicist is claiming. Biblicist is teaching that all could believe in Jesus and be saved, when Jesus had not even come yet. People had to believe in God in the Old Testament, but when Jesus came, God gave them to Jesus, and all have to go through Jesus to get to the Father.

 

[Moriah]

This is what I said:
“Gentiles were excluded from God and Christ in the Old Testament. Why do you KEEP ignoring scripture!”
This is what Biblicist said in reply:

Here are some Gentiles who believed in Christ before the law:

1. Abel,
2. Seth
3. Noah
4. Abraham was a Gentile

These are all prophets and "TO HIM give ALL THE PROPHETS WITNESS that whosoever BELIEVETH UPON HIS NAME SHALL RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS" - Acts 10:433

You are making Peter a liar.

You are denying that Abel, Seth, Noah, Abraham were ALL GENTILES and did not believe in the gospel of Christ but God's Word explicitly says they all did.

Now, Biblicist IGNORED the scripture that I quoted and went AGAINST the scripture. Here is the scripture in which I quoted:
Ephesians 2:12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.
The scriptures plainly and clearly explain that the Gentiles were EXCLUDED, yet Biblicist will not acknowledge God’s Word, but instead he is riled up against the truth I speak and slanders me by saying I make Peter a liar.
Here is another scripture that explains the Gentiles were not with God in the world:
Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

 

[Moriah]

Read each of these scriptures. Does it sound to anyone that in the Old Testament Gentiles were loved by God? Does it sound like Gentiles were God’s people?

As he says in Hosea: "I will call them 'my people' who are not my people; and I will call her 'my loved one' who is not my loved one," Romans 9:25

Hosea 2:23 I will plant her for myself in the land; I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one.' I will say to those called 'Not my people,' 'You are my people'; and they will say, 'You are my God.'"

1 Peter 2:10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

If anyone can see, then they will be able to see from the scriptures that only in the New Covenant the New Testament are Gentiles able to be loved by God and called God’s people.

 

[DHK]

Read each of these scriptures. Does it sound to anyone that in the Old Testament Gentiles were loved by God? Does it sound like Gentiles were God’s people?

As he says in Hosea: "I will call them 'my people' who are not my people; and I will call her 'my loved one' who is not my loved one," Romans 9:25

Hosea 2:23 I will plant her for myself in the land; I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one.' I will say to those called 'Not my people,' 'You are my people'; and they will say, 'You are my God.'"

1 Peter 2:10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

If anyone can see, then they will be able to see from the scriptures that only in the New Covenant the New Testament are Gentiles able to be loved by God and called God’s people.

Jonah 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

Ruth 1:16-18 And Ruth said, Intreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God: Where thou diest, will I die, and there will I be buried: the LORD do so to me, and more also, if ought but death part thee and me. When she saw that she was stedfastly minded to go with her, then she left speaking unto her.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Hebrews 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

Hebrews 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

All these OT people were saved by faith. They were Gentiles. Most of them were outside of any OT covenant, not Jews, and saved by faith, just like the rest of us are saved.

In fact after the preaching of Jonah, an entire nation repented in sackcloth and ashes and turned to God, from the lowest to the highest--they all put their faith in God--the Ninevites.

They were loved by God, spared by God, became God's children.

 

[The Biblicist]

Read each of these scriptures. Does it sound to anyone that in the Old Testament Gentiles were loved by God?

It is almost unbelievable that anyone could be so ignorant of God's word to even utter such absolute pure unadultered nonsense!

1. Abel was a GENTILE - non-Jew and he was loved by God - Heb. 11:4
2. Seth was a GENTILE - non-Jew and loved by God
3. Noah was a GENTILE - and found "grace in the eyes of the Lord"
4. Job was a GENTILE - and was loved by God
5. Abraham was a GENTILE - and was loved by God


Anyone who could utter what you said is advertising his complete ignorance of God's Word in the most basic things.

As he says in Hosea: "I will call them 'my people' who are not my people; and I will call her 'my loved one' who is not my loved one," Romans 9:25

Hosea 2:23 I will plant her for myself in the land; I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one.' I will say to those called 'Not my people,' 'You are my people'; and they will say, 'You are my God.'"

I will explain this to you as simply as I can.

1. Prior to Jacobs twelve Sons (the children of Israel) God saved nothing but GENTILES ONLY as individuals and did not deal with GENTILES as NATIONS

2. After Jacob's children (the children of Israel) God worked only with Israel AS A NATION while still saving Gentiles individuals here and there.

3. After the creation of the church God turned away from Israelites AS A NATION while still saving individual Israelites here and there but primary turned his redemptive attention to the NATIONS of Gentiles.

4. From Genesis to Revelation the SAME GOSPEL and SAME SALVATION by the SAME EVERLASTING COVENANT was used by God to save anyone and everyone he saved - Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:2; Acts 26:22-23; etc.

5. NO man, No Jew has ever been saved, justified, sanctified or entered heaven by personal keeping of the Law - Rom. 3:19-20 - because it is impossible for righteousness and eternal life cannot come by the law but only by faith in Christ as NONE CAN BE SAVED OUTSIDE OF CHRIST as there is no salvation OUTSIDE OF CHRIST for anyone at anytime anywhere in heaven or earth - read Acts 4:12 and don't explain it away.

1 Peter 2:10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Here Peter is talking to Gentiles among whom God never worked before AS NATIONS until the Great Commission but only worked among Jews AS A NATION. Now God has changed his PRIMARY redemptive work from the NATION of Israel to the NATIONS of Gentiles.

 

[The Biblicist]

This is what I said:
“Gentiles were excluded from God and Christ in the Old Testament. Why do you KEEP ignoring scripture!”
This is what Biblicist said in reply:

Gentiles were excluded in the Old Testament AS NATIONS but not as individuals. To deny this is to deny that Abel, Seth, Noah, Job, or Abraham - ALL GENTILES were loved and justified by God and to deny that is so absurd and rediculous because the New Testament lists all of them as God's people by faith.

Now, Biblicist IGNORED the scripture that I quoted and went AGAINST the scripture. Here is the scripture in which I quoted:
Ephesians 2:12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.
The scriptures plainly and clearly explain that the Gentiles were EXCLUDED, yet Biblicist will not acknowledge God’s Word, but instead he is riled up against the truth I speak and slanders me by saying I make Peter a liar.
Here is another scripture that explains the Gentiles were not with God in the world:
Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

These scriptures speak only about God's move from Israel AS A NATION to the GENTILE NATIONS as the primary sphere of redemptive work. That does not mean God still does not save individual Jews as Paul is such an example.

Likewise, prior to God moving his primary redemptive work from among Israel as a NATION that did not mean he did not save individual gentiles as Abel, Seth, Noah, Job, Abraham, the Ninevites are all examples that he did save them AS INDIVIDUALS but he did not have his primary work of redemption among GENTILE NATIONS.

The way of salvation has been the same before the cross as after the cross as there is only "ONE WAY" - Mt. 7:13-14

There is only ONE WAY to the Father - Jn. 14:6

There is only ONE NAME given unto MEN under heaven - Acts 4:12

There is only ONE GOSPEL ever given - Gal. 1:8-9; Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:2

The law has never ever justified, saved, sanctified ANY HUMAN BEING at ANY TIME at ANY PLACE on planet earth - Rom. 3:19-20.

 

[Moriah]

Jonah 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

God had mercy on Nineveh and did not destroy them all. How is that calling them His people?

Ruth 1:16-18 And Ruth said, Intreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God: Where thou diest, will I die, and there will I be buried: the LORD do so to me, and more also, if ought but death part thee and me. When she saw that she was stedfastly minded to go with her, then she left speaking unto her.

Ruth married a Jew named Boaz, and believed in God and obeyed the law.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Hebrews 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, are all blood related.
For you to use Noah, Enoch, and Abraham as an example of Gentiles being God’s people is boggling. Did you not ever wonder why and how it is that all those who are God's people are related?

Hebrews 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

Rahab lived among the Jews. Those who lived among the Jews had to obey God.

They were loved by God, spared by God, became God's children.

Notice that I gave you scripture that says the Gentiles were excluded, but you ignored those scriptures, then went against them with all those other scriptures, that do not prove what you thought it did.
Read each of these scriptures. Does it sound to anyone that in the Old Testament Gentiles were loved by God? Does it sound like Gentiles were God’s people?

As he says in Hosea: "I will call them 'my people' who are not my people; and I will call her 'my loved one' who is not my loved one," Romans 9:25

Hosea 2:23 I will plant her for myself in the land; I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one.' I will say to those called 'Not my people,' 'You are my people'; and they will say, 'You are my God.'"

1 Peter 2:10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

If anyone can see, then they will be able to see from the scriptures that only in the New Covenant the New Testament are Gentiles able to be loved by God and called God’s people.

 

[The Biblicist]

God had mercy on Nineveh and did not destroy them all. How is that calling them His people?

Mt. 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

They did what? "REPENTED"

What was the SIGN OF JONAH?

"TO HIM give ALL THE PROPHETS WITNES that whosoever believeth upon his name shall RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS" - Acts 10:43

Do you want to call Christ a liar too! He said they would rise up in judgement against those who were rejecting Christ on judgment day! That means they were God's people!

YOU are wrong and your theology is false and you preach and teach another gospel straight from hell.

Ruth married a Jew named Boaz, and believed in God and obeyed the law.

Do you actually believe who she married and what she believed or did CHANGE HER BIRTH ETHNICITY???? Give us a break!

Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, are all blood related.
For you to use Noah, Enoch, and Abraham as an example of Gentiles being God’s people is boggling. Did you not ever wonder why and how it is that all those who are God's people are related?

This is one of the stupidist response ever posted on this forum!!!! What human being is not related to Adam blood? What human being after the flood is not related to Noah by blood?

Moriah do you believe Pauls' words when he said:

Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

According to your bizzare logic then ALL HUMAN BEINGS ARE JEWS because all human beings are "made of ONE BLOOD"! Give us a break!

Rahab lived among the Jews. Those who lived among the Jews had to obey God.

Do you honestly believe that your religion changes YOUR BIRTH ETHNICITY??? That is the foolishness that you are suggesting here!


This is the kind of absolute foolishness you are driven to defend your false doctrines and your perverted gospel of works.

 

[DHK]

That is in the New Testament.

Of course Rom.10:13 is in the NT, as is Acts 10:43, and 1Cor.15:1-4, all of which clearly spell out the gospel message which is for both Jew and Gentile alike. Salvation is through Christ alone without works. Ask Jesus in John 14:6.

You are just quoting scripture here and pretending you are correcting me.

If it is the Scripture that corrects then praise the Lord!

You said Paul would not tell the Gentiles about the law the Jews had to do because they were not Jews and probably did not even now about Jews. I showed you from scripture that pagans even knew about Jews, and I even gave scripture saying that. Even if the Gentiles and pagans did not know about the Jews and the law, Paul would still explain how they were separate from the Covenant.

That is not what he did in Acts 17:11.
That is not what any of his sermons were about. Read the Book of Acts.
What disturbed the people when he preached? Whenever he mentioned the Gentiles, the Jews got angry. Whenever he mentioned the Resurrection, the Gentiles got upset. "Covenants" had nothing to do with his preaching. If it did, show it through Scripture.

Acts 17:3-4 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ. And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.
--Here it was the resurrection that was the turning point. It was at this point also that persecution began as well.

Acts 17:19-20 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is? For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.
Acts 17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.
--Again, they heard him up to the resurrection, and then began to mock.

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
Acts 18:6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

And Paul giving his testimony:
Acts 22:21-23 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles. And they gave him audience unto this word, and then lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a fellow from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live. And as they cried out, and cast off their clothes, and threw dust into the air,
--He didn't preach covenants; he preached Christ.

Did you not just say, “Paul did not preach covenants”? Then you quote a scripture that says Christ is a stumbling block to the Jews.

And he was. The gospel was a stumbling block to the Jews. The Jews rejected Christ. That has nothing to do with covenants, but with the gospel, the Christ whom they rejected.

Matthew 26:28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

"This do in remembrance of me." That is not the Gospel. That is the beginning of the Lord's Supper. Where does this red herring come from?

What is absurd is you thinking the Gentiles had no idea about the Jews and the law.

Who taught the Gentiles about the Law. Who was their teacher. The Jews would not even enter their houses. It was against their (Rabbinical) law to come in contact with them. They were ignorant about Jewish law as they were ignorant about Christ.

I quoted scripture about Moses being preached in every city.

No, you perverted Scripture that you have no idea what it means, and then you expect others to believe your perversion of Scripture.

The Ethiopian was READING the book of Isaiah, and ASKED Philip who Isaiah was speaking about, and Philip explained to him the good news about Jesus.

So what? I can show you the gospel from the Book of Genesis. What does it matter what book I use, as long as the gospel is presented?

Faith in Jesus Christ was not REVEALED until Jesus came.

The protoevangelium, or "first gospel" is in Genesis 3:15. Someone once said:
In the OT Christ is concealed;
In the NT Christ is revealed.
But Christ is in all the Bible, OT and NT, nevertheless. There is nothing stopping one from believing in Christ from the OT.
[quote[That was in the New Testament, not the Old Testament.[/quote]
And your point is??
The churches of the NT are made up of both Jew and Gentile believers.
The Jews gave up their religions as the pagans gave up theirs.

The Lord said that they were things that had been known for ages, see Acts 15:17-18. You have no argument.

You have no argument because you refuse to come to an understanding of this verse. Of course many things have been known for ages, like:
There is a God; He created the world; He dwells in the heavens not made with hands; and many other things. The heavens declare the glory of God.
But that is not the point of Acts 15. They were instructions given to silence the Judaizers who were saying (like you) that works were necessary for the gospel to save. But it is only faith in Christ that saves. That message Paul was to take to the Gentiles and to condemn these Judaizers that had been following him. The matter had been settled now once and for all.
You have been taking this Scripture out of context because you don't understand it.

A Jew can still practice the Jewish customs. I gave you scripture telling you this.

No he cannot. There is one sacrifice. The sacrifices have stopped. The Jewish religion is over. It is wrong. Just as one cannot be a Muslim and a Christian at the same time; one cannot be a Jew and a Christian at the same time.

The Jews who did not believe in Jesus were cut off.

Just like the Muslims are today. All who do not believe in Jesus are "cut off." They will end up in the Lake of Fire.

The Word of God says there is a remnant of Jews that would be saved.

They WILL be saved. That has nothing to do with the first century or the present century, but only with the future.

Romans 11:5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.

You can't pull a verse like that out of its context. The context is grace. Read verse 6.