Eph 2:8; Question for those skilled in the greek

[Deacon]

Eph. 2:8 says nothing about who contributes the faith or what makes God's grace come to us. It simply states the grace as the means of "having been saved" and the faith as the agency of being saved.

...and we end up with the same understanding of the passage as Calvin did 500 years ago!

Rob

 

[gb93433]

'for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;'

I believe Paul is saying that faith, because it is a fruit of the Spirit, is the gift of God. Does the greek support or refute that?

Romans 10:14-17, "How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!" However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ."

 

[John of Japan]

...and we end up with the same understanding of the passage as Calvin did 500 years ago!

Rob

So Calvin agrees with me!

And of course, as I quoted, the two greatest Greek grammarians of the 20th century, A. T. Robinson and Daniel Wallace also agree with Calvin and me. :thumbsup:

 

[Skandelon]

So Calvin agrees with me!

That may not necessarily be something you should highlight, after all he has been wrong about so many other things. :laugh:

 

[The Archangel]

And we've come to an agreement on the verse in question, without exploring the wider theology, just as the OP requested.

God bless from Japan.

Perhaps, and perhaps not.

I said "the passage does not necessarily identify who supplies the faith." But, as I have stated, I think grace-through-faith being in view here as the gift necessarily (though implicitly) requires faith to be part of the gift.

I doubt you'd agree with that, but that's where I am.

Blessings to you,

The Archangel

 

[Deacon]

This resource was just released by Logos today.

Rob
_________________________________________________________

8.] For by grace (the article shews us the import of the sentence—to take up and expand the parenthetic clause χάριτί ἐστε σεσωσμένοι above: but not barely so: that clause itself was inserted on account of the matter in hand being a notable example of the fact, and this γάρ takes up also that matter in hand—the ὑπερβάλλον πλοῦτος κ.τ.λ) ye are (perf.) saved, through [your] (or [the], but the possessive article is preferable, see below: ‘the’ would make both objective. The abstract, ‘through faith,’ must be the rendering if the article be omitted) faith (the dative above expressed the objective instrumental condition of your salvation,—this διὰ the subjective medial condition: it has been effected by grace and apprehended by faith): and this (not your faith, as Chrys. οὐδὲ ἡ πίστις, φησίν, ἐξ ὑμῶν: so Thdrt., al., Corn.-a-Iap., Beza, Est., Grot., Beng., all.;—this is precluded (not by the gender of τοῦτο, but) by the manifestly parallel clauses οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν and οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων, of which the latter would be irrelevant as asserted of πίστις, and the reference of ver. 9 must therefore be changed:—but, as Calv., Calov., Rück., Harl., Olsh., Mey., De W., Stier, al., ‘your salvation;’ τὸ σεσωσμένοι εἶναι, as Ellic.) not of yourselves, GOD’S (emphatic) is the gift (not, as E. V. ‘it is the gift of God’ (θεοῦ δῶρον),—τὸ δῶρον, viz. of your salvation: so that the expression is pregnant—q. d., ‘but it is a gift, and that gift is God’s.’ There is no occasion, as Lachm., Harl., and De W., to parenthesize these words: they form a contrast to οὐκ ἐξ ὑμ., and a quasi-parallel clause to ἵνα μή τις καυχήσ. below): not of works (for ἐξ ἔργων, see on Rom. 3:4, and Gal. 2:16), that no man should boast (on the proposition implied, see on Rom. 4:2. ἵνα, has in matter of fact its strictest telic sense. With God, results are all purposed; it need not be understood, when we predicate of Him a purpose in this manner, that it was His main or leading aim;—but it was one of those things included in His scheme, which ranked among His purposes).

Alford, H. (1871/2010). Alford's Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (Eph 2:8). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

 

[John of Japan]

This resource was just released by Logos today.

Rob
_________________________________________________________

8.] For by grace (the article shews us the import of the sentence—to take up and expand the parenthetic clause χάριτί ἐστε σεσωσμένοι above: but not barely so: that clause itself was inserted on account of the matter in hand being a notable example of the fact, and this γάρ takes up also that matter in hand—the ὑπερβάλλον πλοῦτος κ.τ.λ) ye are (perf.) saved, through [your] (or [the], but the possessive article is preferable, see below: ‘the’ would make both objective. The abstract, ‘through faith,’ must be the rendering if the article be omitted) faith (the dative above expressed the objective instrumental condition of your salvation,—this διὰ the subjective medial condition: it has been effected by grace and apprehended by faith): and this (not your faith, as Chrys. οὐδὲ ἡ πίστις, φησίν, ἐξ ὑμῶν: so Thdrt., al., Corn.-a-Iap., Beza, Est., Grot., Beng., all.;—this is precluded (not by the gender of τοῦτο, but) by the manifestly parallel clauses οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν and οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων, of which the latter would be irrelevant as asserted of πίστις, and the reference of ver. 9 must therefore be changed:—but, as Calv., Calov., Rück., Harl., Olsh., Mey., De W., Stier, al., ‘your salvation;’ τὸ σεσωσμένοι εἶναι, as Ellic.) not of yourselves, GOD’S (emphatic) is the gift (not, as E. V. ‘it is the gift of God’ (θεοῦ δῶρον),—τὸ δῶρον, viz. of your salvation: so that the expression is pregnant—q. d., ‘but it is a gift, and that gift is God’s.’ There is no occasion, as Lachm., Harl., and De W., to parenthesize these words: they form a contrast to οὐκ ἐξ ὑμ., and a quasi-parallel clause to ἵνα μή τις καυχήσ. below): not of works (for ἐξ ἔργων, see on Rom. 3:4, and Gal. 2:16), that no man should boast (on the proposition implied, see on Rom. 4:2. ἵνα, has in matter of fact its strictest telic sense. With God, results are all purposed; it need not be understood, when we predicate of Him a purpose in this manner, that it was His main or leading aim;—but it was one of those things included in His scheme, which ranked among His purposes).

Alford, H. (1871/2010). Alford's Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary (Eph 2:8). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

I have Alford in a very old set. Still excellent after all these years. I almost always consult him and did so in this case, but didn't feel like listing a bunch of commentaries. However, now that Alford has been quoted, I'll say that Greek commentators Vincent and Wuest also say that "and that" refer to salvation and not faith. In fact, all of my Greek commentaries say the same thing.

Vincent: "Not faith, but the salvation." (Vol. 3 p. 376)

Wuest: "The Greek word 'that' is touto, 'this,' a demonstrative pronoun in the neuter gender. The Greek word 'faith' is feminine in gender and therefore touto could not regfer to 'faith.' It refers to the general idea of salvation in the immediate context." (Vol. 1, p. 69 in the Ephesians exegesis)

 

[percho]

Well I know no Greek but just to add some thought. If the following says the same thing in a different manner which I think it does, lets try to insert grace and faith in the proper place and see where they come from. Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.

We need to do this keeping in mind that Jesus is the author and finisher of faith.
I left out the our account I don't think it is in the Greek.

 

[John of Japan]

We need to do this keeping in mind that Jesus is the author and finisher of faith.
I left out the our account I don't think it is in the Greek.

Actually, in this verse (Heb. 12:2) you are right in that "our" is not in the original Greek. However, in the Greek there is a definite article before "faith," so it is literally "the faith," making "our" a legitimate clarification in the sense that the verse is not talking about individual faith but faith as a "religion" so to speak or, better, a common faith. (Japanese has the same idiom.)

 

[Winman]

Here is an interesting article on Ephesians 2:8 that argues from the Greek that faith is not the gift spoken of. But it also looks at other parts of the verse such as "not of works" and shows from other scriptures that it is salvation being spoken of as the gift, not faith.


http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/reformed/godgift.htm

 

[percho]

Actually, in this verse (Heb. 12:2) you are right in that "our" is not in the original Greek. However, in the Greek there is a definite article before "faith," so it is literally "the faith," making "our" a legitimate clarification in the sense that the verse is not talking about individual faith but faith as a "religion" so to speak or, better, a common faith. (Japanese has the same idiom.)

I guess you would have to make the same case for Gal. 3:14.

 

[John of Japan]

I guess you would have to make the same case for Gal. 3:14.

Correct.:type: