Featured Ephesians 1 Clarified

You really should put your id behind your ego...

Nope. Again, you seem not to be able to grasp that the simple sentence is "He chose us." No one that I know of is suggesting that "in Him" isn't important. "In Him" is, however, a prepositional phrase and serves as the direct object (and "in Him" is also in the dative case). In other words, grammatically, "He chose us" is the point Paul is making.

In this verse, who is it that is chosen? Us... the believers. It is really that simple. That we're chosen "in Christ" which--if you take the dative as the "Instrumental Dative" (or dative of means), Christ is the means by which we are chosen--which is important. But, in no way is Paul saying Christ was chosen in this particular passage.

No, I've read the thread. Your arguments aren't compelling because they violate the grammar of the passages. That has not gotten better in what you've posted below.

This makes no rational sense and goes against what the text itself is saying.

As I've already stated, chosen to be holy and blameless is not a problem. But, that only comes through being "In Christ." And, since you are having so much intestinal irritation over "He chose us" and since you seem to think you know context well... why do you skip over προορίζω in v. 5. Clearly the word προορίζω (predestined) is--in a parallel fashion--describing God's choosing "us" in v. 4.

Eisegesis? Me??!! You're the one whose explanation(s) go against the simple grammar of the text itself.

The Archangel

 

Not bad kid

 

You really cannot argue Ephesians 1 by referencing Ephesians 2, especially when you rant and rave about how others use context.

And, since we're talking about context, Ephesians 2:13 is addressing Gentiles having been brought into the relationship with God that the Jews had enjoyed; Ephesians 1 is discussing believers in general.

The Archangel

 

As usual, you appeal to a non sequitur. A "done deal" doesn't mean you don't have to learn and grow. When one is born naturally, it's a "done deal." It is someone's son, someone's heir, high or low estate, a citizen of some nation. A boy or a girl, but that doesn't mean he or she doesn't have to be taught about who he or she is, or how he or she came to be, or his or her purpose is.

More than that, it was a "done deal" apart from any choice or contribution on his or her part. So whose will was it that you were born a first time?

(I have to be careful here, because you are nutty enough to postulate that it was human will that gave you existence.)

But the obvious answer is that it was God's will. You may be the offspring of fornication, or rape. If it isn't God's will that ordained you to come into the world at the place and time and through the circumstances that you did, then God has no individual plan and purpose for your life. No real love for you, personally. (You may be obtuse enough to assert that very thing, but I hope not.)

Pretty much any time the word chosen pops up, it is describing something God has set aside for Himself.

But the word "elect" always means God's people, and God's people are saved. They are the elect, the chosen.

 

"in Christ" means the same thing as "in Adam"

In Adam you died, because you were in Adam when He died. Being chosen in Christ, means that you were in Christ when He was chosen.

This is something that even many Calvinists need to understand, too. God is not still in the act of creation. Creation was done on the Sixth Day. On the Seventh day God rested. I'm not saying He is not active in his Creation. But He is not "still workin' on me" in the sense of my natural existence. He is not creating. No child being born is a new creation. Any person "coming into the world" today was actually in the world on the Sixth Day, being, by God's design, personally and individually, "in Adam." You're really a very old thing. The Wai Wai tribe of Northern Brazil would call their newborns, a "new old thing."

But now there is a New Creation, in Christ. And in Christ, we have eternal life, meaning no beginning of days, or end of life. We are partakers of His divine nature. And as He was before the foundation of the world, so are we.