Ephesians 2:1

Allan, no. The bible clearly teaches that God is sovereign. The choices of the Calvinist and the Arminian are made within God's sovereignty. The fact is that God ordains the choices of both. The Calvinist may be right in his understanding of God's sovereignty and the Arminian is wrong, but neither can escape the sovereign hand of God. The Calvinist receives no glory for being "right." The Father receives all the glory. The fact that God predestined who would believe what does not take man off the hook. God predestined Judas Iscariot to be the son of perdition. Judas freely chose to betray the Lord, but that freedom did not come from a moral free agent. That freedom was actually an act of responsibility. Judas, although predestined, was responsible for his sin. No one can offer an excuse before God. That was Paul's agrument in Romans 9:

Romans 9:19-23 19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use, and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so in order that He might make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,

 

There is no meeting point. To suggest there is creates a give-take relationship, a synergistic relationswhip with God. Man does not have that type of relationship with our Lord. God decrees - man acts - God's will is done and He receives glory. There is no collaboration, either real or implied between God and man. Isaiah infers this when he writes:

Isaiah 55:9 9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.

There is no meeting of the minds or meeting point. God cannot debase His nature to give up partial sovereignty to His creation. God is always in control and His will is always being done. As finite creatures we cannot fathom this. I make the decision to put gas in my car. You make the decision to eat chicken for dinner. Did we not make those decisions? Yes, we did. Were they within our power to make? Yes, the were. Could God have preordained that these choices be made and still allow us to make them? Of course. But the cart must remain behind the horse. God first decided. Man's action is a result of God's decision.

 

Arthur,

I never said (or even alluded to) that man does not have responsibility. He most certainly does. Man is commanded to believe and repent. I still hold that man's responsibility is not separate from God's will of decree or intent.

 

If you pay careful attention to the context you will understand that Isaiah is using simile to make a point. Is Yahweh really going to reason with the nation of Israel? Isaiah is using a figure of speech. It is as though Yahweh is saying, "Listen Israel. Your land is desolate. I have turned my back on you and closed my ears to your prayers. Don't you think it is about time you repented of your sins?"

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Yes, without reservation. God hardened Pharaoh's heart so that Pharaoh would become an instrument of God's mercy towards Israel (Romans 9:17). Does this mean God was complicit in Pharaoh's sin? Does this mean that God would be complicit in the sin of a person committing adultery or getting drunk? No. For the scripture says:

James 1:13-15 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. 15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

God allows sin according to His sovereign plan, but He does not commit sin. Man is born entirely in sin. Our natural bent is towards sin. We will always seek to sin unless God intervenes to restrain us from sin. That is a completely different discussion for it involves not only soteriology but pneumotology.

 

I used the word "allow" to distance God from culpability in sin. God does not sin. I could easily have used the word "ordered" or "directed" but I thought 'allowed' was more charitable.

Yes. Simile. Do you know what a simile is? A simile is two opposing ideas used in a single phrase. The opposing ideas? 1. God reasons with man. 2. Man is able to reason with God. A meshing of the finite and infinite. There is no meshing, only the infinite (God) communicating with the finite (man).

By the way, it is exegete not eisegete. You may have been thinking of eisegesis which is not applicable here (hopefully).

 

I've made my points, you've made yours. As always on this topic...no agreement. Let God use the discussion as He wills for His glory.