In another thread, a poster was trying to defend Ergun Caner.
Is that really a thing here? Does Caner actually have supporters here? If so, why?
Is that really a thing here? Does Caner actually have supporters here? If so, why?
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Ergun Caner
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Zaac
Well-Known Member
Why not? Is he not a Brother in Christ?What's he supposedly done now?
So you're OK with his lying and character assassinations of anyone who points it out?
What should our response be when he continues to make his false claims?
And if he's unrepentant and continues to do "what needs correcting"?
And how can I support him when his whole ministry is based on a lie?
Would you want him as your pastor, knowing that his whole ministry is based on a lie and that he apparently has no plans to repent?
OK. And the fact that Calvinist bloggers exposed it makes it OK because...?
There have be 0, count them, 0 links to these "professional investigations".
Also, you realize Caner's own brother has come out and admitted that Caner's claims about his background are untrue, right?
I see. This is what is commonly called "poisoning the well".
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The only thing against Caner comes from a bunch of Calvinist bloggers. Nothing more.
There has been 4, count them 4 professional investigations which all of them completely refute the Calvinist bloggers attacks.
Why do Calvinist bloggers attack? Because of his behavior towards Calvinists. Of which I do not defend.
But the Calvinist blogger attacks is nothing more than revenge.
Plain and simple.
There has been 4, count them 4 professional investigations which all of them completely refute the Calvinist bloggers attacks.
Why do Calvinist bloggers attack? Because of his behavior towards Calvinists. Of which I do not defend.
But the Calvinist blogger attacks is nothing more than revenge.
Plain and simple.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Why would I be okay with that? I wouldn't even hear of that unless someone who feels personally wronged wasn't blogging about it. And that just isn't the BIBLICAL way to address a wrong from another Brother.
Our response should be that we don't know enough about the real situation to have a response for him. We can only suppose based upon one side of the story.
From what I've read on this, he's attempted to apologize for anything that may have mislead people. But some folks don't seem to want to accept that apology and be forgiving and just keep going after him.
Now personally I'd advise him to not respond anymore as he has already addressed this. Those who received his apology will move on and allow him to. Those who don't will keep blogging. It just goes with the territory of being a public figure.
That is because it is none of your business threads like this are what is known biblically as being a busy body. In fact the Christians blogosphere has become nothing more than a gossip fest. Just ask that liberal blogger out of Oklahoma who got himself kicked off an SBC committee.
And this thread only perpetuates that.
Yeah, those "investigations" are a joke. Calvinists are not the only people up in arms over Caner. There was a whole group of Arminian Seminary students back when the scandal was hot, that stood up and said "We're not Calvinists; Caner is bringing shame on our school and should be fired."
There was a reason that Liberty removed Caner. And it was not "Calvinist bloggers." It was the fact that Caner repeatedly lied from the pulpit, and refused to repent fully (he still hasn't. I tried to defend Caner a while back, but he is still propagating his myths).
Public sin, public repentance. It IS my business! He was one of my professors. He lied to me. It is MY BUSINESS.
It is not your business. Claiming it does not make it so. Continue to gossip and you need your own repentance.
I must also correct myself. It was 3 professional investigations.
Revmitchell said:
Oh, then I guess that explains why you didn't show links to those four investigations.
Because your response was "Why not?"
Actually, we do have both sides. If you're not familiar with the facts of the case, then that's fine, but you don't have to look down on those of us who do.
First of all, "may have mislead people"? My, how Clinton-esque. He didn't "may have mislead people". He outright lied.
Second, when did he apologize?
Third, if he apologized, then why is he still standing by his story and attacking those who are pointing out his behavior?
I suppose on another planet, say, Saturn or perhaps Neptune, that might be considered an apology. But here, it's called "doubling down".
What apology?
When did he address it?
What apology?
Unfortunately, we'll never know because his defenders won't cite those "investigations".
You mean Liberty University, that hotbed of rabid Reformed theology...oh, wait...
Or that a public sin committed publicly by a leader in the Church, should not be dealt with publically
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Your position is ridiculous. Your saying that a person's sin is no business of the person who was sinned against. How ABSURD of a position. I guess its no business of the wife, if the husband cheats on her, either. Good grief.
The length that you will go to protect a liar and a fraud is staggering. To actually claim the ones sinned against have no business in a person's repentance... :BangHead:
Greektim
Well-Known Member
Don't forget Muslims that pointed this out too. Anything to discredit a Christian apologist... and Caner did it to himself.
Because they are not the business of anyone. No one owes calvinist bloggers any explanation. Anyway I am out. You calvies gossip among yourselves. Revenge is addictive isn't it?
Exactly. Sadly, this reminds me of the liberals who defend Obama's handling of Benghazi and the IRS scandal.
Same things being claimed.
"Its just a Calvinist conspiracy" ("its all a Conservative conspiracy")
"Lets just move past this"
"I made misleading statements"
I bet a lot of those on here defending Caner, turn around and attack the liberal media for doing the same thing they are doing here.
This is what hypocrisy looks like.
Greektim
Well-Known Member
As has been pointed out... it is not just Calvies who are up in arms about Caner. It is not just Christians! And the Calvies that are up in arms are apologists who actually debate Muslims. So as not to discredit his position or Christianity, it was necessary for people like James White to expose Caner for the fraud that he is.
Yea it is. And the reason mulsims try to use this is because calvies have worked so hard to take Caner down. Calvies "bloggers" of all things made this an up front issue. This is a result of gossip, backbiting, personal attacks. Muslims are not capitalizing on Caner, they are capitalizing on the poor behavior of Christians going after one another in a way the mirrors the pit of hell.
Caner did it and has been shut down. Not calvie bloggers need to shut down and quit feeding the muslims. This thread only perpetuates the Satanic division that continues.
All you guys are doing is feeding your flesh. Get over yourselves thinking you have a right to an explanation. Talk about pride and arrogance.
Satan is enjoying this. And so are the Muslims.
This thread is nothing more than a grand display of the worst of human nature and what life looks like without God.
OK. So, where will you draw the line? What should be discussed?
You and I must have a very different definition of "gossip". It's often said from the pulpit that "Gossip is saying something about someone behind their back that you'd never say to their face, while flattery is saying something to somebody's face that you'd never say behind their back".
In this case, nobody is talking about Caner behind his back and nobody is saying anything that has not been said to him, to his face, both privately and publicly.
Now that you've made your contempt for Reformed believers clear, what do you have to say about the Arminians and Muslims who also raised the same concerns?
Well, that doesn't speak very well of "Armies", then, does it? If Caner lied and "Armies" didn't think it was an issue, then "Armies" must not have a problem with lying.
Out of curiosity, was it "poor behavior" when Paul called out Christian leaders by name?
Incidentally, I thought you said you were "out". Why are you still posting in this thread after declaring yourself "out"?
Apparently not.
Reminds me of the folks who defended Bill Clinton: "Well, sure he cheated on his wife, but character doesn't matter! We elected him to be Commander in Chief, not Moral Leader in Chief!"
What does it matter if Caner lied, is lying, and is slandering those who call him to repent?
Caner has zero integrity with Muslims. Caner is a false witness. Muslims know it and Caner knws it too. Caner has zero credibility. Can you imagine being paid to do a Marine training video about Islam and he doesn't klnow squat about the subject? He has spoken gibberish from pulpits around the country trying to convice folks he's the real deal. (And I don't mean that he's charismatic.)
Caner accuses folks of tampering with his videos (they aren't really his in the first place.) He tries to sue other believers,such as Jason Smathers. How's that for a Christian testimony?
Now that Ergun is President of Brewton-Parker he has hired some folks who have covered for him over the last few years since he was exposed as a serial liar --Peter Lumpkins and C.B.Scott so far. Who knows Timothy Rogers and others will be brought on board as well eventually.
Caner should not be allowed to preach or be involved in any kind of ministry --but the thing is --any church he has been associated with apparently exercizes no church discipline --what a disgrace.
The whole thing reminds me of the Mike Warnke scandal.
Warnke was disgraced when it was discovered that he lied about pretty much everything: his troubled childhood, his being a "Satanic high priest", his being in Vietnam, etc (not to mention that most of his "comedy" act was plagiarized from Bill Cosby and Gallagher). And then, when he got out of jail, he immediately surrounded himself with hangers on who would just rubber stamp and approve everything he said and started his "ministry" up again.
Take tax evasion and prison out of the equation and the two are virtually identical.
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