Ergun Caner

[Rippon]

The whole thing reminds me of the Mike Warnke scandal.

Remember John Todd. Ergun won't go down that violent and perverse road --but lies will not win the day. He can't cover up what has been revealed. He must have a difficult time getting speaking gigs at churches --"Just what is it that you know about me?"

 

[preachinjesus]

Caner clearly misrepresented himself and gave false information. He is violating Scripture by suing other believers. He lied at multiple Pastors conferences and convention meetings where he pretended to speak Arabic but was only babbling.

I'm not reformed, I'm not a Calvinist, I'm not a Muslim.

I am a Southern Baptist and lament that the good ole boy system is at work again. He has no business leading a SBC institution.

Dr Caner had recently hired his loudest defender, Peter Lumpkins, are a VP at Brewton-Parker. Do we really think this isn't a giant cover up?

Just running around saying there's no fire when the whole house is burning down doesn't help either.

All that said, some Calvinist bloggers have gone too far and are in sin over their prosecution of this man.

 

[Greektim]

Yea it is. And the reason mulsims try to use this is because calvies have worked so hard to take Caner down. Calvies "bloggers" of all things made this an up front issue. This is a result of gossip, backbiting, personal attacks. Muslims are not capitalizing on Caner, they are capitalizing on the poor behavior of Christians going after one another in a way the mirrors the pit of hell.

Caner did it and has been shut down. Not calvie bloggers need to shut down and quit feeding the muslims. This thread only perpetuates the Satanic division that continues.

All you guys are doing is feeding your flesh. Get over yourselves thinking you have a right to an explanation. Talk about pride and arrogance.

Satan is enjoying this. And so are the Muslims.

This thread is nothing more than a grand display of the worst of human nature and what life looks like without God.

I like how you didn't talk about the relevancy for Calvie apologists like White to call out Caner. For White's (and others) credibility in a Muslim debate, he has to clear the name of Christianity.

I do think the tirade has gone on way too long. But a lot of that is because Caner still gets support from apologists who should know better (i.e. Geisler).

 

[go2church]

Everyone deserves a second or third chance, Caner is no exception. That being said, I've never actually heard him repent for his blatant lying and misrepresentations of himself. All I've heard is the ole "sorry you were offended" remarks.

Does anyone have an actual link or report where Caner admitted his mistakes, took full responsibility and asked for forgiveness?

 

[Rippon]

Everyone deserves a second or third chance, Caner is no exception. That being said, I've never actually heard him repent for his blatant lying and misrepresentations of himself. All I've heard is the ole "sorry you were offended" remarks.

Does anyone have an actual link or report where Caner admitted his mistakes, took full responsibility and asked for forgiveness?

Just go to James White's website and you'll find more than enough info to satisfy you.

I am not able to access Ergun's website --and I think he removed it. But he made a half-hearted acknowlegement of sorts:"I never intentionally misled anyone...For those times where I misspoke,said it wrong,scrambled words,or was just outright confusing,I apologize and will strive to do better."

The above quote did not quite cut the proverbial butter shall we say?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Everyone deserves a second or third chance, Caner is no exception. That being said, I've never actually heard him repent for his blatant lying and misrepresentations of himself. All I've heard is the ole "sorry you were offended" remarks.

The problem with giving second chances and forgiveness where there is no repentance is that it amounts to giving tacit approval to the sin.

To give Caner a "second chance" without him repenting or even acknowledging his lying and subsequent, related sins sends the message that we're willing to sweep the sinful behavior under the rug.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Just go to James Whit's website and you'll find more than enough info to satisfy you.

Yeah, but remember, any evidence James White produces won't count because he's one of those mean ol' big, bad Calvinists. And you know they're always up to no good.

Incidentally, James White does read the posts here on Laodice....er, I mean BaptistBoard. He's referenced posters and threads here several times on his show.

 

[Zaac]

Frankly it all sounds like gossip at this point. If the point has been made that he lied to the people to whom he lied, then why keep reporting on it like it's a news story?

This has become glorified gossip and has seemingly nothing to do with loving correction to move someone toward repentance.

Was anyone on here personally wronged in such that he owes you an apology?

Were any of the bloggers personally wronged in such that he owed them an apology?

This is not the way things are supposed to be dealt with if a Brother has wronged another Brother.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Frankly it all sounds like gossip at this point. If the point has been made that he lied to the people to whom he lied, then why keep reporting on it like it's a news story?

Because his behavior is ongoing and he's still being given a place of authority in the Church.

This has become glorified gossip and has seemingly nothing to do with loving correction to move someone toward repentance.

Two problems here.

The first is, what happens when you repeatedly give someone loving correction to move someone toward repentance and they repeatedly not only refuse to repent, but double down on their sin?

The second is that this isn't a personal squabble. This is a public issue.

Was anyone on here personally wronged in such that he owes you an apology?

Do we have to be in order to discuss it?

Were any of the bloggers personally wronged in such that he owed them an apology?

Do they have to be personally wronged in order to comment on a news story?

This is not the way things are supposed to be dealt with if a Brother has wronged another Brother.

Let me guess: Matthew 18:15-20?

Two problems with using this passage in this case.

The first is that this is not a brother who has sinned against a brother. This is a man who has lied to gain a position, has built a ministry on a lie, a man with a position of authority within the Church who has sinned publically and continues to flaunt his sin.

The second problem is that this passage ends with excommunication. So even the passage you're quoting would hold Caner to a higher standard than you do.

 

[Yeshua1]

So you're OK with his lying and character assassinations of anyone who points it out?

What should our response be when he continues to make his false claims?



And if he's unrepentant and continues to do "what needs correcting"?

And how can I support him when his whole ministry is based on a lie?

Would you want him as your pastor, knowing that his whole ministry is based on a lie and that he apparently has no plans to repent?



OK. And the fact that Calvinist bloggers exposed it makes it OK because...?



There have be 0, count them, 0 links to these "professional investigations".

Also, you realize Caner's own brother has come out and admitted that Caner's claims about his background are untrue, right?



I see. This is what is commonly called "poisoning the well".

what was/has he been accused of not telling thruth about?

was it his minisrey and work among Muslims, or something else?

 

[Zaac]

Because his behavior is ongoing and he's still being given a place of authority in the Church.

How do you know that his behavior is ongoing? Is it ongoing because people who directly have nothing to do with it keep talking?

Two problems here.

The first is, what happens when you repeatedly give someone loving correction to move someone toward repentance and they repeatedly not only refuse to repent, but double down on their sin?

Then leave it alone. You can't force anyone into repentance. And that seems to be the purpose of continuing to call him out. It's been addressed with the people he supposedly wronged so why the continued gossip at this point about what he's continuing to do? Let the folks who say he wronged them deal with it.

The second is that this isn't a personal squabble. This is a public issue.

Did he wrong the public or specific people? It does not serve the public's interest for the church to keep eating it's own like this publicly over something which doesn't involve most of us.

Do we have to be in order to discuss it?

Do they have to be personally wronged in order to comment on a news story?

There's a difference between commenting and acting like you're the one whose been wronged.

Let me guess: Matthew 18:15-20?

Two problems with using this passage in this case.

The first is that this is not a brother who has sinned against a brother. This is a man who has lied to gain a position, has built a ministry on a lie, a man with a position of authority within the Church who has sinned publically and continues to flaunt his sin.

There's no problem with using that passage. He wronged somebody and because he used his lie for personal gain and status, you're now trying to justify ignoring Scripture.

Too many people have gotten too personally involved in commenting on this as thought they were the ones wronged.

The second problem is that this passage ends with excommunication. So even the passage you're quoting would hold Caner to a higher standard than you do.

Excommunication if he didn't repent of wronging the other Brother. Yall just seem to be upset that he gained a position of status by supposedly lying. He didn't do anything directly against you, but yall are acting as though he did.

This is a private matter about a private wrong. The rest is gossip. But naturally the church likes to cll gossip Godly.

 

[go2church]

I don't think it entirely private. Books were written, sermons preached, lectures given - all in a public forum.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I don't think it entirely private. Books were written, sermons preached, lectures given - all in a public forum.

It wasn't private at all. He built a very public ministry out of it.

What's more, if it's private, then why is he making it public by suing people he claims to consider brothers in Christ?

what was/has he been accused of not telling thruth about?

His place of birth, his education, his family background, his upbringing, his ability to speak Arabic, his understanding of Islam...

And didn't he give an apology, (whether we think it sincere or not) to anyone who may have felt that he mislead them?

So who kept feeding this after the apology?

"I'm sorry for lying" and "I'm sorry if you feel I lied" are two very, very different things. If you can't tell which one is an apology and which one isn't, then the problem is yours, not ours.

What if someone doesn't feel that he misled them. Is he still sorry for lying?

 

[Zaac]

I don't think it entirely private. Books were written, sermons preached, lectures given - all in a public forum.

And didn't he give an apology, (whether we think it sincere or not) to anyone who may have felt that he mislead them?

So who kept feeding this after the apology?

 

[go2church]

And didn't he give an apology, (whether we think it sincere or not) to anyone who may have felt that he mislead them?

So who kept feeding this after the apology?

Not a matter of being sincere, it wasn't an apology

http://sbctoday.com/2010/02/25/statement-from-dr-ergun-caner/

He said he didn't lie, but made a "pulpit mistake", whatever that is.

 

[Zaac]

Not a matter of being sincere, it wasn't an apology

http://sbctoday.com/2010/02/25/statement-from-dr-ergun-caner/

He said he didn't lie, but made a "pulpit mistake", whatever that is.

So again, the people it did not involve, why is it being talked about in a way that does not seem to be attempting to edify the Body or push him to repentance but rather just to gossip?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

So again, the people it did not involve, why is it being talked about in a way that does not seem to be attempting to edify the Body or push him to repentance but rather just to gossip?

How does it edify the Body to sweep his behavior under the rug or to not warn unsuspecting brothers and sisters in Christ?

 

[Zaac]

How does it edify the Body to sweep his behavior under the rug or to not warn unsuspecting brothers and sisters in Christ?

What does his behavior have to do with Brothers and Sisters to whom he hasn't done anything? This is no different than if somebody committed adultery and folks started telling people with whom it had nothing to do with.

It's none of our business so why are folks gossipping about it as though it is?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

What does his behavior have to do with Brothers and Sisters to whom he hasn't done anything?

It's deceptive and brings reproach on the Church and on the Gospel.

Now, back to my question: How are you edifying the Body by sweeping his behavior under the rug or not warning unsuspecting brothers and sisters in Christ?

This is no different than if somebody committed adultery and folks started telling people with whom it had nothing to do with.

I see. So, let's say a pastor or a seminary president commits adultery and not only refuses to repent for it, but continues to commit adultery and attacks those who try to call him to repentance. Is it wrong to talk about the ramifications of his actions on the Body of Christ?

It's none of our business so why are folks gossipping about it as though it is?

Please name one person in this thread who is gossiping about it. And if they are, then why do you hold them to a higher standard than you hold Caner?

 

[Zaac]

It's deceptive and brings reproach on the Church and on the Gospel.

It's deceptive to whom? The school that hired him is satisfied. Who else is being deceived? How is it bringing reproach on the church and the Gospel other than by folks who had nothing todo with it keep talking about it?

Now, back to my question: How are you edifying the Body by sweeping his behavior under the rug or not warning unsuspecting brothers and sisters in Christ?

It hasn't been swept under the rug. The people to whom it matters have accepted what he said nad felt like he has atoned for whatever the wrongdoing was, and that's why they hired him.

The unsuspecting Brothers and Sisters that matter have addressed the issue and hired him. SO why are the folks who have nothing to do with it still gossipping about it?

I see. So, let's say a pastor or a seminary president commits adultery and not only refuses to repent for it, but continues to commit adultery and attacks those who try to call him to repentance. Is it wrong to talk about the ramifications of his actions on the Body of Christ?

It would be wrong to talk about what he did as though it was done to you. That's the sort of thing that can be spoken of in generic terms without dragging folks through the mud.

He wouldn't be dragging us personally through the mud so what sense does it make for us to speak to specifics and gossip about him as though we had?

Perhaps if there wasn't so much gossip taking place about what happened, he would have the opportunity to move to repentance if he already hasn't. All the gossip makes it look like he's under attack.

Please name one person in this thread who is gossiping about it. And if they are, then why do you hold them to a higher standard than you hold Caner?

Pick one. If you've brought up his name in reference to what you think he did and hasn't repented and you weren't there when he did it, you're gossipping.