Featured Error, Cult. Cultic

Back to the original topic, I think it would be safe to say that a church ceases to become a church when decreed by Christ. As stated in revelations when Christ threatened to remove the Laodicean church's candlestick.

How do WE know when this has happened? The only way I can imagine is by comparing the church's doctrine and behavior as a whole with the Scriptures. I would start with the fundamentals of our faith personally.

 

What have you got against the teachings of Billy Graham?

WM

 

maybe easier in this to list obvious examples of errors/misunderstand that real christian groups hold to, and heresy from cults!

JW?Mormons deny biblical views on nature of God/man, gospel salvation

Assemblies of God hold to non essental Holy Spirit mistaken understandings

Nazarenes/westlyns officially hold to mistaken Holy spirit understandings regarding 'second blessings/spiritual perfection"

word of faith and other heretical charasmatics hold to non biblical views on jesus and nature of atonement, and man nature

RCC/CofC are hybrids, in that hold to proper views on nature of God, but also mix Gospel of grace with human works!

 

If you think that a person's good works have nothing to do with one's final destination, then you've have been reading a different gospel that me.

WM

 

2 Judgements in the Bible...

Bhema Seat of christ for the saved, ALL there are saved, their good works weighed/measured to see if able to receive blessing of the lord for "job well done my good and faithful servant!"

Great White throne for JUST unsaved, NONE saved there, just being weighed to see about degrees of punishment in hell!

 

Just for the unsaved? Hmmmm....

Romans 2:5-8 (New International Version)
"5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath , when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God will repay each person according to what they have done [works]. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality [good works] , he will give eternal life [heaven]. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil [works of evil], there will be wrath and anger [hell]." (Emphasis mine.)

Paul makes no such exclusion in the above. In fact he counters your position when he unambiguously states that God will repay each person according to what they have done. He doesn't say only the unsaved. Further notice the rewards - the reward is heaven or hell and its based upon a person's works! Ultimately, if only the unsaved were being judged then Paul's statement: "To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life." would be meaningless.

John 5:28-29
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good [works], unto the resurrection of life [heaven]; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation [hell]. (Emphasis mine.)

Notice how John parallels Paul. Really... it couldn't be clearer. There are many MANY places in scripture regarding this very same thing.

Question: Just where is the "Great White Throne" located anyway?

WM

 

ALL who appear before Christ will be saved, even IF all of ones works were hay/wood/stubble, the person would still be saved!

NO christian shall EVER be lost who once once genuinily saved by grace of God!

regardless of good works, as those done AFTER salvation, and will be unto eternal rewards, NOT salvation itself!

 

Well, there's a ton of scripture that contradicts you. However, why not address the scripture that I presented to the contrary.

Oh... Where is the "Great White Throne" located anyway?

WM

 

What are those eternal rewards?

What if someone gets lesser rewards than others? Do some get streets paved of gold while others get streets paved with tin? Do some get crowns of platinum while others get crowns of silver?

Hmmmm....

WM

 

some will get higher positions in serving the Lord, as we will be here going back and forth between new Jerusalem in heaven and on earth when jesus reigns!

Also, think will have higher degress of appreciation of eternity, as some will be blessed with being more aware of the lord and All of his attributes than others...

 

I believe a church can believe the essentials of the faith and still be considered a cult. A group is a cult or cultish based not on what they believe but upon how they behave & think. Cults are led by a sole-authority man, are unable to think outside of the religious bounds of their group's ideology, believe that they are the only true church or followers of Christ, are obsessed with their own self-defined righteousness, are controlled with emotional manipulation & man-made standards of conduct, worship their leader as higher in the Priesthood than other men, questioning their pastor or beliefs is akin to questioning God, and they are unable to apply critical thinking skills to their own beliefs.

I believe much of Western Christianity has moved toward a cult mindset. Many pastors more closely resemble Fifteenth Century Catholic priests who claim divine knowledge rather than Biblical elders. These leaders actually believe that God speaks to His people through them like Old Testament priests instead of directly to His children through the Spirit & the Word. Like the Catholic priests, they keep the people dependent on them for their spiritual growth instead of equipping them to feed themselves from the meat of God's Word.

 

Think that the CoC example same as a Roman catholic!

there ARE saved persons in both groups, but its despite their church teachings, as they were saved by the grace of God, and they somehow know that it is jesus alone that saved them!

 

So, what do we do with Acts 15 where believing Pharisees in the church at Jerusalem believed that circumcision & keeping the law were necessary for salvation? Scripture says that they were saved in spite of this belief. I believed that all CofC'ers were going to hell until I read this passage of Scripture. God said they were believers. That's good enough for me. Besides, what do we do with all of the independent baptist churches which teach that the keeping of the(their) law is necessary for our sanctification & to be kept in a "right" relationship with God. Are their salvations made void by this belief? Hmmmmmm, let's think on that one a bit.

 

IF they really hold to mixing faith/grace/works, not a real Gospel....
Some hold to them, but also realise jesus alone really saved them, all depends on the view they have...

IF something else done MUST be done in addition to grace, not saved....

Assuming that they really know why/what grace is in bible, and still chose to add works to it!

 

We make war upon our brothers and sisters in Christ because we are not humble, striving to build up the church; but instead our motives are guilty pride, secretly saying I am right and they are wrong, and boy am I glad I am not as misguided as they are.

God is opposed to the proud but gives grace to the humble.

In answer to the question concerning folks of another assembly believing in what we believe are mistaken understandings of scripture, we should privately express our views and then, if they do not correct their position, we should separate ourselves. We have so much capital and we should be good stewards, and not throw pearls before swine.

 

Apostles creed and Niecene creed

These seem to bond most Christians with the trinity and Jesus as our savior from baptist to eastern orthodox

Apostles creed Pre180ad
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.


Nicaeane creed 325 ad
We believe (I believe) in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages. (God of God) light of light, true God of true God. Begotten not made, consubstantial to the Father, by whom all things were made. Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven. And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man; was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried; and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end. And (I believe) in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father (and the Son), who together with the Father and the Son is to be adored and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets. And one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We confess (I confess) one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for (I look for) the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."

 

Lets rewrite the creeds and see if they really do tell us the basis for separating from other assemblies?

!. We believe in one God, in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

2. We believe God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) created out of nothing the heaven and the earth both the visible and the invisible, the physical realm and the spiritual realm and everything existing in them other than the uncreated eternal triune God.

3. We believe God the eternal Son became flesh, our Lord Jesus Christ, the one of a kind Son of God, conceived by the Holy Spirit, and born of the virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried.

4. On the third day Jesus arose from the dead, appeared to many people over the next 40 days, then ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God, acts as the Mediator between man and God, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, and whose kingdom shall never end.

5. No one comes to the Father except through Jesus, Salvation and Eternal life are in Him alone.

6. The Holy Scriptures were inspired by God including the Old Testament and the New Testament.

7. We believe in the holy catholic church, the bride of Christ, made up of all people who God has spiritually baptized into Christ for the remission of sins.

 

The media recently mentioned a poll showing that many people did not know President Obama's religion. Some thought he was a Muslin because his father was Muslin. But he is a professing Christian with a take it or leave it view of scripture, and holds other religions in high esteem. Based on the old creeds, it seems sound to not know his true religion, what he believes in his heart. God knows and we are not supposed to try and uproot tares.

 

All we can do with the president is take him at his own words, and since he sdaid that his god would NOT judge/comdemned those of other faiths, that its not just have faith in jesus to save you, and that while Christianity works fr him, need to see other faiths as legit/valids ways to God...

 

Ben Franklin would call that "faint praise."

Our President seems to not hold firmly to separation criteria 5 and 6 above. Not to put too fine a point on it, but would it be wrong to think that some of his doctrine is definitely not "Christian" according to the ancient creeds?