Originally posted by TexasSky:
Scott J,
According to what any and every Calvinist, you included, has said to me, in person or on this board, depending on the person, the Calvinist view is that God does NOT really offer salvation to all people.
Is salvation offered to every person TS? Are you trying to suggest that every person who ever lived was offered salvation? If you believe that no one comes to the Father but by Jesus then you must admit that the truthful answer to both of these questions is "NO".
People still die everyday without hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ. That is a simple, undeniable truth.
Ergo - when you say that man has a chance to repent - you contradict yourself.
Not at all. Romans 1 tells us that even nature declares God such that men have no excuse for not repenting. Not the same as the "chance to have salvation" but rather the obligation to submit to the perfect moral laws of God.
Romans 2 tells us that even those who never hear the law have enough of the law written on their hearts that God can righteously judge them guilty for not repenting.
What I, and many others like myself, say, over and over is that man DOES have a chance to repent.
Yes. But he won't.
In connection, I have repeatedly asked you why one person does repent and accept Christ while another does not.
The elect are those who DO repent.
They BECOME elect BECAUSE they repent.
That is not what the Bible says. See 1 Peter 1:2. We are elect according to the foreknowledge of God. 1 Thess 3:4 says: "4Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God." You cannot reconcile this verse with what you said above. To elect = to choose. Eph 1:4 says we were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. Did we repent before the foundation of the world?
Your first statement is correct. Your second one contradicts the definitions of the words used to state it.
It is not, as Calvinism teaches, because they were elected they can repent.
Yes, scripturally, it is.
The view that those of us who are NOT followers of Calvin is that God's word is true.
Except the parts that deal with election and God's sovereignty over who He saves and who He leaves in rebellion. Those parts you don't accept as true but rather need to redefine the very words themselves.
Calvinism struggles somewhat with "world" and "all". But both of those words have contextual meanings. If you said "all of my family is coming over for Christmas", would that mean everyone you are related to in the whole world? No. If someone said "I have all I ever wanted", would we consider that a lie because they probably wanted a piece of candy they didn't get as a child? No.
The reason I accept calvinism in principle is that it is the best explanation I have seen for the whole of what the Bible says about salvation. Once I dropped my presuppositions about what was "fair" and really accepted the fact that no one deserves a chance for salvation, it became much easier just to accept all of what the Bible says rather than trying to explain certain passages out of existence the way non-calvinists do.
God offered pardon and peace to ~all~ men, and those who reject God end up in hell.
That is a statement that can easily be proven untrue. There are people living in Islamic nations at this moment who will die before the day is done without ever hearing the clear gospel of Christ.
Calvinists certainly believe that God made the gospel available and public. We believe that the guilt of the law is manifest in each person. But not all people reject God's offer. Many rebel against God's law and are thus condemned without ever hearing the "offer" even once.
We reject the view that God never gave those in hell the chance to repent.
So do I. All men have knowledge of the Law written on their hearts even if they have never heard the Law. They are a law unto themselves and have a responsibility under the law to repent.
The fact is however that not all men hear the gospel or feel the specific convicting power that causes them to believe it.
