Esau I HATED!!!!!

[BobRyan]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How often I wanted to gather your children...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JohnP said --
"But you would not." Read it again.

Attention to "detail" JohnP?

See the text "already quoted"?

Luke 19:
41When He approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it,
42saying, “If you had known in this day, even you, the things which make for peace! But now they have been hidden from your eyes.
43“For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, 44and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation.”

God's PURPOSE FOR THEM is salvation – but those who are ultimately lost reject God’s Purpose for THEM .

Even so - God shows Himself as WORKING for their salvation AND YET they turn.

Luke 7:
28 “I say to you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”
29 When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they acknowledged God’s justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John.
30 But the Pharisees and the £lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.
31 “To what then shall I compare the men of this generation, and what are they like?
32 “They are like children who sit in the market place and call to one another, and they say, ‘We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not weep.’
33 For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon!’
‘The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’

=============================================================================

God WORKS to win the LOST that HE KNOWS to be those who would ultimately reject the choice for life!!

Parable of the Landowner

Matt 21:
33“Listen to another parable. There was a landowner who PLANTED A VINEYARD AND PUT A WALL AROUND IT AND DUG A WINE PRESS IN IT, AND BUILT A TOWER, and rented it out to vine-growers and went on a journey.
34“When the harvest time approached, he sent his slaves to the vine-growers to receive his produce.
35“The vine-growers took his slaves and beat one, and killed another, and stoned a third.
36“Again he sent another group of slaves larger than the first; and they did the same thing to them.
37“But afterward he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’
38“But when the vine-growers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir; come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’
39“They took him, and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40“Therefore when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vine-growers?”
41They said* to Him, “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end, and will rent out the vineyard to other vine-growers who will pay him the proceeds at the proper seasons.”
42Jesus said* to them, “Did you never read in the Scriptures,
‘THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,
THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone;
THIS CAME ABOUT FROM THE LORD,
AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES’?

HE would have us BEG the LOST to be saved!!

2Cor 5:18Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Lament over Jerusalem

Matt 23

37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!

God shows CONCERN and CARE - for Israel. God's WILL is that NONE should perish! What God sovereignly wants is PEACE and safety.

BUT "YOU WOULD" not! The FREE WILL of the leaders of God's OWN CHOSEN NATION - thwarts God's WILL for them.

In Fact - the text says "THEY REJECTED GOD's PURPOSE FOR THEM"

 

[BobRyan]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God will be displeased with the saints IF they rejoice at the fall/judgment of the wicked!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JohnP
I see no reason to rejoice over the death of anyone but I glory to God it wasn't me.
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/35/1576/15.html#000217

SEE JohnP's sentiment above - reflected perfectly in the SCENARIO?

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />

5 and 4 pt Calvinist Future Scenario:

“Showing” the requirement of 4 and 5 point Calvinism to have the “luxury” of a cold disregard for the non-elect “When the non-Elect are finally Known”. (In the perfect Calvinist Utopian future). This scenario simply removes that “luxury” (for a moment) in order to emphasize the point 4-5 Pt Calvinism makes about God Himself – vs the view that “God so Loved the World that He Gave…Really” (something that both Arminians and 3-pt Calvinists seem to Agree on).

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
When the 4 OR 5-point-Calvinist finds himself in heaven enjoying the perfect love, unity and selfless concern for others that is not possible here on this sinful earth - and then peeking over the ramparts of heaven - observes his OWN precious sweet daughter who passed the age of accountability as the MANY of Matt 7 -- now writhing in the agony of eternal roasting in hell - he may well run to his sovereign lord with the cry

"Oh My Lord, my great God and Savior! Couldn't you have done Something for my precious child??"

And of course the answer will come back that Calvinism so loves to hear – "Why of course I COULD - IF I had Cared to"!

"Hallelujah!" cries out the Calvinist - that IS the Gospel I was proclaiming!! Ahh that blissful eternity with calvinism's God that unfairly saved you but not your precious daughter - and you will be praising through all eternity that YOU were spared though she was not. (For it IS all about the saved/electin the end)

We see Calvinists blessing the fact that He chose You – AND that it was "unfair" as you say - but it was graciously unfair IN YOUR favor - just not your precious daughter's.

So just enjoy! Enjoy! Unjust Mercy - oh the Calvinist bliss.

&lt;You see the problem when the Calvinist model is not “allowed the luxury" of disregarding the fate of the lost - as in the case above?&gt;

Here we see Calvinism’s view of God who (arbitrarily from the POV of human eyes) selects out the FEW of Matt 7 and loves THEM alone - and then represents that to Calvinists as "So Loving the World". Oh the pure joy that thought must cause the Calvinist mind.
</font>[/QUOTE]Calvinist future scenario complete!


Notice the “focus” in that perfect Calvinist utopian future - is always on “you” the one that is arbitrarily selected and then justifying the callous disregard of your precious child under the guise of “Well God does not HAVE to care about ANYONE just be glad YOU made it”.
Fascinating!

</font>[/QUOTE]In Christ,

Bob

 

[johnp.]

Hello Bluster Bob.

I see you stick to form. Reams of misunderstanding never actually amount to truth. One sentence should convey the idea.

Contrast again - that compassion for the lost -- as compared to JohhP's blasphemy

You sound as if I've wound you up. Blasphemy? My Christ died for my sins. I have been granted liberty as a son of God and liberty I take whenever He wills, without fear. I take my salvation for granted and experiment with my freedom. I believe Christ died for my sins but you do not believe He died for your sins. That's all that is required.

Isaiah 63:So He became their Savior.

Saviour means Saviour not Enabler.

ALL of God’s Compassion is stirred up within Him over the finally lost!

You reduce Him to wishful thinking.

JohnP and Johnathan Edwards shout YES YES!

A very great honour thank you. I never imagined I'd be in the same sentence as Jonathan Edwards, a very clever man. My brother is a teacher of exellence. http://www.jonathanedwards.com/ Have a read Bob boy you might learn a thing or two.

EVEN in the face of whatching their own precious child writhing in agony in the flames...

All your sons will be taught by the LORD, and great will be your children's peace. Praise Him. ISA 54:13.

They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. Praise the God of comfort. He is too much. Eze 37:25.

ISA 35:4 say to those with fearful hearts, "Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you." A grieving He will come. A grieving He will come. ei-adio a greiving He will come to vent His wrath on the loved wicked not covered by Christ's atonement. Tissues at the ready.

Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation."

The point remains.

Maybe the point remains but I have no idea what point. The unanswered question however most certainly do. You lose by default. You condemn yourself in your reluctance to tell us where those forums are where you talk about us. You are not a man I would drink with and I'm not fussy.

john.

 

[BobRyan]

Notice that when JohnP reads the above - scripture after scripture condemning his own hatred for the lost -- he calls it all "bluster attacks"?!!

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/35/1576/15.html#000217


How instructive.

YET the Bible says of the saints "WE" have been given "THE MIND OF CHRIST" 1Cor 2:16

And of course "more of the same" in each of his posts.

Hosea 11
:7 So My people are bent on turning from Me.
Though they call them to the One on high,
None at all exalts Him.
8 How can I give you up, O Ephraim?
How can I surrender you, O Israel?
How can I make you like Admah?
How can I treat you like Zeboiim?
My heart is turned over within Me,
All My compassions are kindled.

quote:Bob AGREES
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ALL of God’s Compassion is stirred up within Him over the finally lost!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To which JohnP objects!

You reduce Him to wishful thinking.

The John tries to defend his "god is doughboy" blasphemy with


Blasphemy? My Christ died for my sins. I have been granted liberty as a son of God and liberty I take whenever He wills, without fear. I take my salvation for granted and experiment with my freedom. I believe Christ died for my sins but you do not believe He died for your sins. That's all that is required.


Admitting that the one you are blaspheming is ALSO the one who died for your sins - is simply to increase guilt.

Try another approach.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[ascund]

Hey Johnp

Bluster Bob?
Vast amounts of abused quotes when a simple sentence would work?

I am amazed!

I thought it was only me who saw his tactic.
LLoyd

 

[johnp.]

Hello Bob.

The John tries to defend his "god is doughboy" blasphemy with...

'The John'? What you mean 'The John'? HaHa! But don't bow to me as Jesus does I wouldn't trust you.

"god is doughboy" blasphemy

I'm in the poppycock if I'm wrong and I will have blasphemed but He won't mind cause He will be soft and squishy. I shall try to avoid offending Pillsbury in the future.

Admitting that the one you are blaspheming is ALSO the one who died for your sins - is simply to increase guilt.

If there was truth in your statement it would be of no concern to me because Christ died for my sins and took my guilt don't you know? That's His problem not yours. Me blaspheming God would be a thing between Him and me not me and you. Your desciption of Him leaves a lot to be desired.

Try another approach.

If I knew what I was approaching I might take your advise but seeing as our conversations never go anywhere I am mystified as to approaching anything but a coma.

john.

 

[johnp.]

Lloyd.

I thought it was only me who saw his tactic.

Making smoke is all. The sheep hear His voice through all the din.

john.

 

[Jarthur001]

Hi Bob and all others,

God has blessed me with much work and this posting of notes comes way 2nd. I see after a few weeks not much changes.

Originally posted by BobRyan:
Did I forget to post God's Word on this subject of LOVInG the lOST??

(I suppose I COULD have made up som silly mythical text about Rebekeh "HATING and LOVING" instead of posting scripture... but you know me -- I just HAD to post God's word INSTEAD)
******************
James.....
Bob, no need to make it up. The Bible says it.

In 1Cor 2:16 – we are told that we have been given “the Mind of Christ”. What then is the Mind of Christ regarding love for the lost?

When the “impartial (Rom 2:11) unchanging (Mal 3:6) God” weeps and grieves over the lost - He is not simply pretending so we will be duped into "thinking" He loves them and works for their salvation just as He loves the saved and ministers to them, when in fact He cares nothing at all for our children and loved ones that are “not elect”.

God’s Grieving involves tears as a parent weeps for a lost child!!
******************

James.....

Bob, do a word search of Gods wrath and get back with us if you find anything. Oh but God hates sins not the sinner. Who is it that sins? To lie is to sin. A lie can never happen unless a person lies. If I lie it is I that sinned not the words i told. To kill is to sin. It is not the gun. It takes a PERSON to sin. God hates sin...and thoughfore hates those that sin. This also means that God hates it when we that know Him sin. Yet when a believer sins, God wants to bring him back to the fold. The lost sheep, those that are his, we wants to repent, and will go get them and break their leg if He needs to. In some cases God will take those He loves Home early. In Romans 1 we see God giving those that are not "his" up. He does not go out and break their legs and bring them in. He lets them go. WHY? He chases US down...and gives others up. WHY?

Notice the wrath of God in Zephaniah 1....

2 I will utterly consume all things from off the land, saith the LORD. 3 I will consume man and beast; I will consume the fowls of the heaven, and the fishes of the sea, and the stumbling blocks with the wicked: and I will cut off man from off the land, saith the LORD.

This is Gods wrath at work. God hates sin...and man sins.


</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />
Luke 19:
41When He approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it,
42saying, “If you had known in this day, even you, the things which make for peace! But now they have been hidden from your eyes.
43“For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, 44and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation.”

Lament over Jerusalem

************************
James.....
God crys over His choosen when they keep sinning. If need be he will break their legs and bring them back. Edom he never crys over. God says he will HATE them FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that means forever bob. Yet those he loves he asked to repent. humm think about it

Matt 23

37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!

*********************

James..
Notice here that God takes on the role of a mother...for it is his FAMILY that makes Him cry.


God is sorrowful and GRIEVES for the lost and for the fact that He has done so much to win them - yet they TURN away.
*********************

James....
The lost are the lost sheep of Gods Family

Gen 6:
5Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.
7The LORD said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.”
8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

God’s Spirit is grieved by the rebellion of His CHOSEN people His HOLY nation His ROYAL priesthood. Yes even by the LOST among them – even the worst among them.
****************************
James.......

Bob the whole story is this. God was grieved and hates sin so much he sent a flood and killed them ALL. Yet he choose some to salvation from the flood. This is the WRATH of God.

Isaiah 63:So He became their Savior.
9 In all their affliction He was afflicted,
And the angel of His presence saved them;
In His love and in His mercy He redeemed them,
And He lifted them and carried them all the days of old.
10 But they rebelled
And grieved His Holy Spirit;
Therefore He turned Himself to become their enemy,
He fought against them.

ALL of God’s Compassion is stirred up within Him over the finally lost!
**************************

James........

Bob this is to easy to miss. Do you not see? God crys of the sins of His choosen.

Hosea 11
:7 So My people are bent on turning from Me.

********************
James......

MY PEOPLE!!!! Hosea is a Love story about God and His people. His people sin....and this makes Him sad.

Again...very easy to see this. context bob...context


Though they call them to the One on high,
None at all exalts Him.
8 How can I give you up, O Ephraim?
How can I surrender you, O Israel?
How can I make you like Admah?
How can I treat you like Zeboiim?
My heart is turned over within Me,
All My compassions are kindled.

************************
James....
Ephraim..the land of Israel....HE WILL not give up on. but romans 1..HE will.


</font>[/QUOTE]I hope this helps Bob.


In Christ....James

 

[BobRyan]

Ok we see "MY People" "My People" in the text -- SHOWING that God is talking about PEOPLE - but you want to say "nope - just LAND"??

How is that "helping"?

Does "hate mean hate" in Hosea 9?

Hos 9 Regarding Ephraim
15All their evil is at Gilgal;
Indeed, I came to hate them there!
Because of the wickedness of their deeds
I will drive them out of My house!
I will love them no more;
All their princes are rebels.
16Ephraim is stricken, their root is dried up,
They will bear no fruit
Even though they bear children,
I will slay the precious ones of their womb.
17My God will cast them away
Because they have not listened to Him;
And they will be wanderers among the nations.

Hosea 11
:7 So My people are bent on turning from Me.
Though they call them to the One on high,
None at all exalts Him.
8 How can I give you up, O Ephraim?
How can I surrender you, O Israel?
How can I make you like Admah?
How can I treat you like Zeboiim?
My heart is turned over within Me,
All My compassions are kindled.

THOUGH THEY CALL -- (this is not talking about LAND but PEOPLE living IN THE LAND)!!

The "inconvenient" personal pronouns are all over the "inconvenient" text of scripture for Calvinists.

Hos 9 Regarding Ephraim
15All their evil is at Gilgal;
Indeed, I came to hate them there!

I can see how the need to avoid these blatant obvious points "Could" drive a Calvinist to the extreme posts of JohnP... I just don't see how the Calvinists that have not climbed out that far out on that particular limb can ignore the evidence that this is where they are headed.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[johnp.]

Hello Bob.

The branch is big enough for all of us it will not break.

I came to hate them there! You are flogging a dead horse mate. Selling a pup. Pulling a fast one. Hate will never mean love. Love never fails and Esau with Edom are awaiting the Day of Judgement while they continue in torment now and forever more consciously suffering for the glory of God who will not leave them alone but will inflict on them a torture and terror beyond imagining forever more for His glorious glory.

A distasteful subject and one we should not dwell on He knows what He is doing. As for me and my house we will trust Him. Hell is His problem and those that go there not ours.

Your soul death is a figment. Hell and it's occupants are in for the long haul.

john.

 

[Jarthur001]

hello bob,

I see the spin master lives on.

Bob....
************
Ok we see "MY People" "My People" in the text -- SHOWING that God is talking about PEOPLE - but you want to say "nope - just LAND"??
James...
************
i had to smile at this. This is the 1st time you have ever claimed a nation has people. Months go by..post after post...you say.."Edom is only a nation...and God can hate a nation. Other tell you a nation is PEOPLE...and you never admit it. Now...when you need to use it for your good...we have people. Glad you now see this.

Bob...if you read the post...it says God loves His choosen PEOPLE. why try to spin out of this? one line...yes one line of a very long post I say

"James....
Ephraim..the land of Israel....HE WILL not give up on. but romans 1..HE will."

and you try to spin it into a point. I added "land of Israel...for that was "Ephraim". Not to talk down to any one...but some may not know that...so i added it to be clear. yet you spin it.

well....i should look at it in the good way...and cut at paste this moment for our next round on romans 9.

Bob....
*************
How is that "helping"?

Does "hate mean hate" in Hosea 9?

THOUGH THEY CALL -- (this is not talking about LAND but PEOPLE living IN THE LAND)!!
James....
***************
did you even reaqd my post...or just that one line? that was my point...can can hate...or love...its up to Him. hello?


Bob....
****************
I can see how the need to avoid these blatant obvious points "Could" drive a Calvinist to the extreme posts of JohnP... I just don't see how the Calvinists that have not climbed out that far out on that particular limb can ignore the evidence that this is where they are headed.
James...
***************
you didn't read it...did you? I knew it!!


In Christ..James

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
Did I forget to post God's Word on this subject of LOVInG the lOST??

(I suppose I COULD have made up som silly mythical text about Rebekeh "HATING and LOVING" instead of posting scripture... but you know me -- I just HAD to post God's word INSTEAD)

So another textless post follows on that point of Rebekeh hating her infant son.

Originally posted by Jarthur001:

******************
James.....
Bob, no need to make it up. The Bible says it.

A quote would have been good there.

Bob said
In 1Cor 2:16 – we are told that we have been given “the Mind of Christ”. What then is the Mind of Christ regarding love for the lost?

When the “impartial (Rom 2:11) unchanging (Mal 3:6) God” weeps and grieves over the lost - He is not simply pretending so we will be duped into "thinking" He loves them and works for their salvation just as He loves the saved and ministers to them, when in fact He cares nothing at all for our children and loved ones that are “not elect”.

God’s Grieving involves tears as a parent weeps for a lost child!!

Here is 1Cor 2, Romans 2 and Mal 3 combined to SHOW our expected role in following God's example of LOVE for the LOST.

Will ANY of those texts be addressed in the response to that point?

Not in a textless - gloss-over style response that has been "customary" from Calvinists so far.

Originally posted by Jarthur001:
******************

James.....

Bob, do a word search of Gods wrath and get back with us

Nice dodge - good gloss over. Change focus - switch to a game.

Had not thought of that dodge-tactic Jim.

Originally posted by Jarthur001:
It takes a PERSON to sin. God hates sin...and thoughfore hates those that sin.

"GOD so HATED the WORLD that HE GAVE"??

You need a new Bible.

Originally posted by Jarthur001:
The lost sheep, those that are his, we wants to repent, and will go get them and break their leg if He needs to.

Now you are almost quoting scripture. Good tactic.

"God is NOT WILLING FOR ANY TO PERSISH but for ALL to come to repentance"

Why? "GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD that HE GAVE".

Can you see the picture yet?

Can you see where you have dodged the MAIN POINT of the post you are quoting - yet?

SEE How THAT POST SHOWS God to be concerned about the VERY ONES you claim HE IS NOT concerned about?

YET?

Why not address THOSE TEXTS as pointed out already?

Here - let me "keep on" helping you until you stop avoiding the text of scripture inconvenient to your view.

Hos 9 Regarding Ephraim
15All their evil is at Gilgal;
Indeed, I came to hate them there!
Because of the wickedness of their deeds
I will drive them out of My house!
I will love them no more;
All their princes are rebels.
16Ephraim is stricken, their root is dried up,
They will bear no fruit
Even though they bear children,
I will slay the precious ones of their womb.
17My God will cast them away
Because they have not listened to Him;
And they will be wanderers among the nations.

Hosea 11
:7 So My people are bent on turning from Me.
Though they call them to the One on high,
None at all exalts Him.
8 How can I give you up, O Ephraim?
How can I surrender you, O Israel?
How can I make you like Admah?
How can I treat you like Zeboiim?
My heart is turned over within Me,
All My compassions are kindled.

Another inconvenient point of scripture is raised - only to be ignored

Luke 19:
41When He approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it,
42saying, “If you had known in this day, even you, the things which make for peace! But now they have been hidden from your eyes.
43“For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side, 44and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation.”

Lament over Jerusalem

James.....
God crys over His choosen when they keep sinning. If need be he will break their legs and bring them back.

Jerusalem is destroyed - not redeemed in that picture. Christ said nothing about "Bring them back". Paul SHOWS THEM to be TAKEN OUT OF the vine in Romans 11.

How much more obvious can this be?

LOVE for the LOST - PAul HIMSELF says He wishes HE could be accursed so that he "might save some of them".

Time to face the facts on this one Jim.

Jim said

Edom he never crys over. God says he will HATE them FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that means forever bob. Yet those he loves he asked to repent. humm think about it

Do you have text saying "I WILL HATE THEM"?

STick with scripture Jim.

God is not committed to hating the world.

"God so LOVED the WORLD that HE GAVE" Jim.

Matt 23

37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!

James..
Notice here that God takes on the role of a mother...for it is his FAMILY that makes Him cry.

Do you live in Jerusalem James?

Christ said "I HAVE NO PLEASURE IN THE DEATH of the wicked".

Can you come to terms with that in your traditions James?

PAUL said that the JEWS had been CUT OUT of the vine - CAST out and the gentiles grafted in -- does that sound like "STAY IN NO MATTER WHAT" James?

If not - then Christ is showing love FOR THE LOST James.

 

[BobRyan]

Isaiah 63:So He became their Savior.
9 In all their affliction He was afflicted,
And the angel of His presence saved them;
In His love and in His mercy He redeemed them,
And He lifted them and carried them all the days of old.
10 But they rebelled
And grieved His Holy Spirit;
Therefore He turned Himself to become their enemy,
He fought against them.

ALL of God’s Compassion is stirred up within Him over the finally lost!
**************************

James........

Bob this is to easy to miss. Do you not see? God crys of the sins of His choosen.

His enemies?

Therefore He turned Himself to become their enemy,

Hosea 11
:7 So My people are bent on turning from Me.

********************
James......

MY PEOPLE!!!! Hosea is a Love story about God and His people. His people sin....and this makes Him sad.

Again...very easy to see this. context bob...context

Yep He turns on HIS people!

Turning to "hate"

Turning to "be their enemy"

But still loving them.

James....
Ephraim..the land of Israel....HE WILL not give up on. but romans 1..HE will.
hope this helps Bob.

Ephraim is not land - it is "THEM" "THEIR EVIL"

AND God says "I CAME to HATE THEM".

Calling THEM ISRAEL.

This is NOT LAND -- but the actual PEOPLE.

LOVED - but HATED by contrast to the blessings.

And the SORROW over those now HATED whom God declared to be HIS ENEMY -- it is IN The text.

SEE IT .

Hos 9 Regarding Ephraim
15All their evil is at Gilgal;
Indeed, I came to hate them there!
Because of the wickedness of their deeds
I will drive them out of My house!
I will love them no more;
All their princes are rebels.
16Ephraim is stricken, their root is dried up,
They will bear no fruit
Even though they bear children,
I will slay the precious ones of their womb.
17My God will cast them away
Because they have not listened to Him;
And they will be wanderers among the nations.

Hosea 11
:7 So My people are bent on turning from Me.
Though they call them to the One on high,
None at all exalts Him.
8 How can I give you up, O Ephraim?
How can I surrender you, O Israel?
How can I make you like Admah?
How can I treat you like Zeboiim?
My heart is turned over within Me,
All My compassions are kindled.

How many ways are there to dodge this point?

I expect the Calvinists can show us.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Jarthur001]

********************
James......

MY PEOPLE!!!! Hosea is a Love story about God and His people. His people sin....and this makes Him sad.

Again...very easy to see this. context bob...context
[/QUOTE]

Bob..
********
Yep He turns on HIS people!

Turning to "hate"

Turning to "be their enemy"

But still loving them.

James...
*************
Bob...look in your files and find the date where you said God can not love and hate at the same time. You said to me...i can't have it both. wait I'll look for you...

here you go Bob...

Bob says...
***************
He LOVES ALL and the few cases that "might" be bent to contradict that Bible position are in fact simply texts where Calvinists have glossed over inconvenient facts.

You simply can not have it both ways.
James....
******************
Now i get it...you don't read others post..and you don't read your own.


In Christ...James

 

[timothy27]

Bob your own text contardicts you view that God cannot hate.

Hos 9:15 " I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of my house, I WILL LOVE THEM NO MORE"

Interested to see how Bob explains that text away.

 

[johnp.]

Bob explains little with many words.

john.

 

[TexasSky]

First - God is love.
The bible states this twice.

1 John 4:8 - He that loveth not knoweth not God, for God is love.

1 John 4:16 - And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Second - God said He loves the world.
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved.

As to the responsiblity.
John 3:19 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darknes rather than light, because their dees were evil.

John 12:47 - And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

John 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

2 Corinthians 5:19 - To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

James 2:5 - Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

2 Peter 2:20 - For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.


The absence of love is not hate.

Love is a tender feeling of affection and an underlying sense of oneness. An intense attraction.

Hate is hostility and animosity.

There is a lot of ground between the two.

 

[Johnv]

The problem with microscoping a specific verse in Hosea is that is negates Hosea as a whole. Chapters 8 and 9 address impending judgment and calamity, followed by chapter 10 covering Israel's guilt and punishment. But then comes Chapters 11-14, in which God pursues Israel with love, calls them to repentance, and promises restoration. If God were not a God of love, then the analogy would end at Ch9.

Overall context is imperative here. Coming to the conclusion that the aforementioned verses imply that God withhold love is like implying that Psalm 82:6 (You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you)says that men are gods, which, when looking at scripture as a whole, is grossly heretical.

[ September 20, 2005, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by timothy27:
Bob your own text contardicts you view that God cannot hate.

Hos 9:15 " I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of my house, I WILL LOVE THEM NO MORE"

Interested to see how Bob explains that text away.

Calvinism thrives in an eisegetical cut-and-paste view of scripture. This is why GO STRAIGHT to Hosea to SHOW that the "THE HATE" Calvinism so loves to proclaim in Romans 9 is in fact the KIND OF HATE in God that Calvinism knows nothing about!!

BUT IN Hosea God says TO THE SAME one that is hated to the SAME one that is LOST - to the SAME ONE that is doomed "OH HOW Can I give you up!! ALL My compassions are STIRRED UP".

IT is THAT inconvenient fact that makes the devastating case that debunks Calvinism.

So DOES the honest, objective, thinking Calvinist take that ARGUMENT already given here and RESPOND to it - or do they snippet - slice and myopically isolate one thread of the argument to AVOID all the "incovenient problems" and just "pretend" that the remaining inconvenient facts did not exist.

It is like someone telling Saddam that "You will live in infamy as a criminal" and having him say "YOU SEE they say I WILL LIVE!! They LOVE ME!!"

That is the slice/dice/snippet style response you have used above.

Why do that? Who do you think it fools?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[HanSola2000]

As the above posts prove, Calvinists are every bit as demented as the "god"they pretend to see in the Bible. How sad. You are serving the cause of Satan well, making God appear like the great red dragon.