Featured Eschatology - constructive, brotherly discussion

Yep.

Just as it was 6000 years from the promise given to Adam and Eve to the partial fulfillment of the suffering Messiah, it may be 1000's more years until the final fulfillment and destruction of the serpent.

One day, does not mean, tomorrow. It can, or it can mean one day in the passage of time.

Does time exist in the realms of God? Is there a heavenly clock? Or is God the timekeeper.

There is no hope and longing should there be immediacy to the promise, and God is not "slack" as some would attempt to show when it comes to keeping His promise.

See what Peter states?

3Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, 4and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” 5For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 7But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

8But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. 9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
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An interesting side note:

2 Peter was written just before Nero put him to death, which was mid way through the middle east uprising of which Titus "plowed" Jerusalem.

Now if Peter was thinking as a preterist, he wouldn't have included verse 8, because surely the Holy Spirit would have given insight into the return in two years rather than thousands of years.

 

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is [thousands of years away]. Rev 1

10 And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is [thousands of years away]. Rev 22

2 Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is [thousands of years away]. Mt 3

17 From that time began Jesus to preach, and to say, Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven [thousands of years away]. Mt 4

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is [thousands of years away] Mt 10

18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Teacher saith, My time is [thousands of years away]; I keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.
45 Then cometh he to the disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is [thousands of years away]. and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
46 Arise, let us be going: behold, he is [thousands of years away] that betrayeth me. Mt 26

11 And this, knowing the season, that already it is time for you to awake out of sleep: for now is salvation nearer to us than when we first believed.
12 The night is far spent, and the day is [thousands of years away]; let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. Ro 13

5 Let your forbearance be known unto all men. The Lord is [thousands of years away]. Phil 4

8 Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord is [thousands of years away].
9 Murmur not, brethren, one against another, that ye be not judged: behold, the judge standeth before the doors. Jas 5

 

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John; Rev 1

6 And he said unto me, These words are faithful and true: and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angels to show unto his servants the things which must shortly come to pass. Rev 22

4 Howbeit Festus answered, that Paul was kept in charge at Caesarea, and that he himself was about to depart thither shortly. Acts 25

20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Ro 16

19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will; and I will know, not the word of them that are puffed up, but the power. 1 Cor 4

19 But I hope in the Lord Jesus to send Timothy shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state.
24 but I trust in the Lord that I myself also shall come shortly. Phil 2

14 These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly; 1 Tim 3

9 Give diligence to come shortly unto me: 2 Tim 4

23 Know ye that our brother Timothy hath been set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you. Heb 13

14 but I hope shortly to see thee, and we shall speak face to face. Peace be unto thee. The friends salute thee. Salute the friends by name. 3 Jn 1

 

I suppose you desire that the Lord have returned as Peter died or within the couple years following.

Sorry, didn't happen.

No historical evidence it happened,

No Scriptural evidence it happened, (Peter and Paul BOTH died before the Revelation was written in approximately 96 - 99 AD)

No physical return of Christ.

No specific 1000 year reign of world wide perfect peace that was preceeded by world wide destruction that literally destroys over 2/3 of the surface (water and land) of the earth.
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But, that isn't going to change your thinking.

Why should it.

Didn't you say that Hard-shell folks were obstinate?

My daughter has named me obstinately non-compliant. So, I suppose that makes me worse!

 

Well, we ARE still waiting. Betcha can't prove any differently!

 

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:... And you know the rest... Sorry kyredneck I couldn't resist... Brother Glen

 

The kingdom of heaven was indeed at hand when our Lord uttered Matthew 3:17. And "at hand" does not mean 40 years away; it means here right now banging on the door (Matthew 26:45). The kingdom was announced with the coming of the King.
Matthew 12:28. 'But if I, by the finger of God, cast out demons, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.'
Luke 16:16. 'The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached and everyone is pressing into it.'

The kingdom of God broke into the world with the coming of Christ. It has nothing whatever to do with AD 70

 

I'm sure you meant Mt 4:17:

17 From that time began Jesus to preach, and to say, Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Mt 4

Wrong. Forty years fits perfectly within the timeline of 'this generation':

31 Even so ye also, when ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

Yes. John the Baptist ANNOUNCED it before Christ did.

Yes, the two, the coming of the Son of man and the coming of the kingdom, are synonymous:

28 Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Mt 16
1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There are some here of them that stand by, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God come with power. Mk 9
27 But I tell you of a truth, There are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God. Lk 9

31 Even so ye also, when ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

33 even so ye also, when ye see all these things, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24

29 even so ye also, when ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors.
30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 9

Wrong. AD 70 fits perfectly within the timeline of 'this generation':

31 Even so ye also, when ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

33 even so ye also, when ye see all these things, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24

29 even so ye also, when ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors.
30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 9

 

I'm sure the Lord understands it as an attempt on my part to illustrate the violence they do to the scriptures.

 

Lol, yea:

8 Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord is at hand.
9 Murmur not, brethren, one against another, that ye be not judged: behold, the judge standeth before the doors. Jas 5

...not sure when James was written, in the 60s? Late 50s? Anyway, His coming wasn't 'right that instant', it was just a 'very little while later'.

37 For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry. Heb 10

 

Yep.

Your problem is that the kingdom of God had already come You seem to have forgotten my quotations of Matthew 12:28 & Luke 16:16.

Exactly so, and they saw it. 'For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. For He received from the Father such honour and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain' (2 Peter 1:16-18).

31 Even so ye also, when ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

33 even so ye also, when ye see all these things, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24

29 even so ye also, when ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors.
30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 9

Whatever is meant by this, it cannot mean the commencement of the kingdom of God because that had already occurred as I have shown, nor (if genea means 'generation') can it mean the Return of the Lord Jesus Christ as I show below..

Modern translations say 'it is near - at the doors!' (eg. NIV, NJKV).
That Jerusalem was destroyed in AD 70 and that the Lord Jesus predicted it is not at issue. However, when He returns, it will be a physical, visible appearance (Acts 1:11; Revelation 1:7).

 

You've shown nothing but your forcing the scripture to conform to your view, when you ought to conform your view to scripture.

 

Unlike you, I actually DID show the synonymy of 'His coming' and 'the coming of the kingdom':

28 Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Mt 16
1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There are some here of them that stand by, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God come with power. Mk 9
27 But I tell you of a truth, There are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God. Lk 9

31 Even so ye also, when ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

33 even so ye also, when ye see all these things, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24

29 even so ye also, when ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors.
30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 9

With that in mind:

20 And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God cometh, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Lu 17

36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. Jn 18

18 For ye are not come unto a mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, and unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, Heb 12

He's here, now. His kingdom is spiritual, not of this world, it can't be seen with the eye or touched with the hand, but it surely can be opened up to us!

10 Wherefore, brethren, give the more diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never stumble:
11 for thus shall be richly supplied unto you the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Pet 1

 

You continually quote Scripture, which is good, but you never interact with other people's posts which makes discussing with you impossible.

 

A very gifted Primitive Baptist Elder once stated in a sermon, to the shock of everyone there:

"The scriptures teach us nothing"

Then he elaborated further:

"The scriptures are there to give us a way to articulate what the Spirit is teaching"

I wholeheartedly believe this, and choose to use the brevity of scripture, as much as is possible, to present my views.

Besides, very few read long winded wordy posts (I don't) and what better way to concisely make your point than with scripture?

I stated to you, concisely, plainly, that 'His coming' and 'the coming of the kingdom' are synonymous, and then articulated that with scripture. But that doesn't 'fit' your view, at all. That's your problem in a nutshell.

 

The scripture is very plain in it's meaning of 'genea':

From Matthew:
28 Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Mt 16
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24

From Mark:
1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There are some here of them that stand by, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God come with power. Mk 9
30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished. Mk 13

From Luke:
27 But I tell you of a truth, There are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God. Lk 9
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

"This generation" is 1st century, those contemporary with Christ and the apostles.

 

The devil can quote Scripture.

 

I don't think you'll find you did.

And so they did. 'For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. For He received from the Father such honour and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain' (2 Peter 1:16-18). The transfiguration follows straight on from all three verses that you quoted.

Answered already

Why not add the rest of of our Lord's statement? "Nor will they say, 'See here!"'or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is among you" The KoG was already a present reality when the Lord Jesus spoke those words.

36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. Jn 18 The kingdom WAS ALREADY BEGUN. IT DIDN'T NEED AD 70 TO BE A REALITY.

'.......But you have come to Mt. Zion........etc.' The Kingdom was a present reality to the writer to the Hebrews.

At the present time, this is exactly right. But that is not all there is: 'For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ...... [why? So that thousands of Jews can be killed? No!] who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body' (Philippians 3:20-21).

Yep! No waiting until AD 70. It's available right now, says Peter.

 

I believe you are correct, the kingdom was available, But until AD 70 it had an "rival".
It wasn't until the destruction of the OC temple where the kingdom came into power unequaled.