Essential Doctrine from the Bible

[DaveXR650]

If the premise of Protestantism was true, that Scripture was the sole authority and all we needed was to prayerfully read it guided by The Holy Spirit, then everyone would be united in one faith after reading it, despite human weaknesses.

The premise is manifestly false, because in Bible alone Protestantism the Bible itself is the source of their disunity, with conflicting interpretations and contrary doctrines.

The Bible in Catholic hands truly is the source of our unity, not just around the entire world, but in unity with all the ancient fathers whose interpretations of Scripture are the same as ours.

These statements are garbage and should not be allowed on a thread. Catholics are not united and never were but I don't want to get into that. Protestants don't believe that you read scripture and live only by your private interpretation of scripture. Read Protestant literature, Puritan or Baptist, modern or Reformation era and you see this constantly discussed. I don't know how many sermons I have heard as a Baptist on the fact that "saint" is only found plural and that we "forsake not the assembly of ourselves together".

It's actually a sick joke that you would say "the Bible in Catholic hands" due to the history of Roman attempts to keep the Bible out of everyone else's hands but the clergy or even translated into local languages.

Lastly, stop talking about the unity with the ECF's. Anyone can clearly see differences with the ECF's and developing theology.

 

[canadyjd]

The central premise of Bible alone Protestantism is.

The Bible is the sole rule of faith.

And the Bible gives clear teaching such that sincere believers will all agree on essential saving doctrines taken from scripture.

Examples of the premise.

“There are some things in the Bible that can be tricky to grasp. But that doesn’t mean that they’re impossible to grasp. And the perspicuity (clarity) of Scripture assures us that even when they are hard to grasp, the Author intends His words ultimately to be understandable by anyone.” Barry Cooper.

“All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all; yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed, for salvation, are so clearly propounded and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them.” Westminster Confession.

Sincere Bible alone Protestants aren’t in agreement on essential doctrines they garnered from Scripture. In fact nothing is settled.
They disagree on the necessity of Baptism and the Trinity for starters.

Thus the central premise is manifestly false by their disunity on essential doctrine.

Strange how a thread about essential doctrines of the Bible doesn’t include any passages from the Bible.

peace to you

 

[Cathode]

These statements are garbage and should not be allowed on a thread. Catholics are not united and never were but I don't want to get into that. Protestants don't believe that you read scripture and live only by your private interpretation of scripture. Read Protestant literature, Puritan or Baptist, modern or Reformation era and you see this constantly discussed. I don't know how many sermons I have heard as a Baptist on the fact that "saint" is only found plural and that we "forsake not the assembly of ourselves together".

Ultimately it’s up to the individual to be final arbiter of Scriptures interpretation, protestants Church hop all the time to settle where Scriptural interpretation fits their tastes.
But there are countless churches of the individual that have given up on Church community altogether and are “ me and my bible and me “.
That’s not the Church we see in Scripture.

It's actually a sick joke that you would say "the Bible in Catholic hands" due to the history of Roman attempts to keep the Bible out of everyone else's hands but the clergy or even translated into local languages.

You are spouting a myth here Dave. There were plenty of Catholic vernacular bibles before the reformation, some quite famous. Look it up.
Luther even used the High German translation to help him with his poor butchered translation.

Lastly, stop talking about the unity with the ECF's. Anyone can clearly see differences with the ECF's and developing theology.

What do you mean?

 

[Oseas3]

Strange how a thread about essential doctrines of the Bible doesn’t include any passages from the Bible.
peace to you

The Roman Catholic Church uses Bible only to adulterate its writings and prostitute itself with the Bible, to prostitute itself with the Word of God and sow its demonic tares on Earth, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird, i.e. the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars. And all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the Earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Paul Apostle wrote to the Church of Rome around 57AD, saying unto them: Romans 1:21-32:

21 Because that, when they knew GOD, they glorified Him not as GOD, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their FOOLISH HEART was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible GOD into an image made like to corruptible man(beatifying sinful defuncts), and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore GOD also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of GOD into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause GOD gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain GOD in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of GOD, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of GOD, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[DaveXR650]

Ultimately it’s up to the individual to be final arbiter of Scriptures interpretation, protestants Church hop all the time to settle where Scriptural interpretation fits their tastes.
But there are countless churches of the individual that have given up on Church community altogether and are “ me and my bible and me “.
That’s not the Church we see in Scripture.

That's the whole point really. The church we see in scripture is nothing like the Roman Catholic church. And as to your other point, our churches have plenty of people who did just what you said, including many former Roman Catholics, who have realized the errors in the Roman system. Not to mention the large number of RC's who rarely attend their own church either.

You are spouting a myth here Dave. There were plenty of Catholic vernacular bibles before the reformation, some quite famous. Look it up.

I did. I had forgotten the loving way the Roman Catholics treated Tyndale for example.

You are so full of guile towards Protestants that if I were a Roman Catholic and had any authority I would pull you off of here so fast your head would spin. But keep going. The damage you do is bad enough, but it mainly damages Catholics. I really shouldn't care but I have some RC relatives and friends and I hate to see the animosity and hope it is not universal and that you are an outlier.

 

[Oseas3]

Revelation 16:13-15
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs(why frogs?) come out of the mouth of the dragon(Revelation 12:3-4 & 9 and 13:11), and out of the mouth of the Beast(Beast of sea), and out of the mouth of the false prophet (false messiah of the Jews - John 5:43-47).

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

15 Behold, I come as a thief...

Revelation 13:1-9 (around 95AD)
13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea(sea=peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tngues-Revelation 17:15), and saw a Beast rise up out of the sea(A GENTILE BEAST), having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

THE ORIGIN OR THE ROOTS OF THE BEAST OF SEA -

2 And the Beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon(THE RED DRAGON-Revelation 12:3-4 & 9) gave him his Power, and his Throne(in Jerusalem), and great Authority. (prophetic message)

3 And I saw one of his (7) heads(Revelation 17:9) as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the Beast.

4 And they worshipped the Dragon(they will worship the Devil) which gave power unto the(Gentile Beast): and they worshipped the Beast, saying, Who is like unto the Beast? who is able to make war with him? (Michael is)

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (This terrible period of time is exactly the 1st half of the last week, week 70th Daniel 9:27, combined with Luke 21:24 and Ravelation 11:2)

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against GOD, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

 

[Cathode]

That's the whole point really. The church we see in scripture is nothing like the Roman Catholic church. And as to your other point, our churches have plenty of people who did just what you said, including many former Roman Catholics, who have realized the errors in the Roman system. Not to mention the large number of RC's who rarely attend their own church either.

I did. I had forgotten the loving way the Roman Catholics treated Tyndale for example.

Tyndale made over 2000 translation errors in the New Testament alone, and he wasn’t authorised to translate the Bible. Besides there were already authorised English translations in circulation.
Secular authorities had to act because potential heresy from mistranslation could cause upheaval in non pluralist societies. He wasn’t a nice by all accounts either.

You are so full of guile towards Protestants that if I were a Roman Catholic and had any authority I would pull you off of here so fast your head would spin. But keep going. The damage you do is bad enough, but it mainly damages Catholics. I really shouldn't care but I have some RC relatives and friends and I hate to see the animosity and hope it is not universal and that you are an outlier.

I’m only giving a perspective Dave, I don’t have any ill will to protestants, in fact it’s the opposite.

 

[MrW]

I have contempt for the error that divides us, not for the brethren in error, who I consider brothers in Christ none the less, and all the more if they are prepared to contest for their love of Him.

15 “if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1 Timothy 3

Now, ask a Bible alone Protestant what he believes is the pillar and foundation of Truth is.
“ There is only one “ he will say, “ The Scripture alone “.

Yet strangely when we read the Scripture itself, it says that the Church is the “pillar and foundation of the truth “.

Ask a Catholic what the “ pillar and foundation of the truth “ is. And he will say “ The Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth, it is infallible, founded by Christ on the Apostles and guided in all Truth, “. This lines up with what scripture says of the Church, pillar and foundation of the truth, and in other scripture, guided in all truth. It’s saying the Church is infallible in other words.

Do we need anything else a part from the Scriptures?

Bible alone protestant will say “ No, everything we need is in the Scriptures, we need no other authority over us but the Word of God in Scripture “ Am I not correct? Is this a fair representation?

Yet Scripture says.

“Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.“

Ask a Catholic if we need anything else a part from the Scriptures.

He will say “ We need the elders and overseers of the Church who are infallibly guided to interpret God’s word and explain its meaning to us as Christ’s Apostolic Shepherds guided in all Truth. We must obey and submit to them because they watch over our souls “.

Who in practice is Scriptural here?

Do these scriptures demonstrate “ Me and my bible and me “, far from it.

The Apostles appointed bishops like Timothy and Titus to succeed them.

“ Teach and reprove with all Authority, let no one despise you “

So if Timothy and Titus was your overseer, they had complete Apostolic Authority over you, and you would obey and submit to their teaching because they watched over your souls.

You weren’t free to pick up scripture and interpret your own doctrines from it, there was a lineage of appointed Apostolic men with Authority to teach you the true interpretations of the Word.

Men outside this Apostolic lineage are unapproved and have no authority to teach and reprove anyone.

The Catholic church is not THE CHURCH.

That would be the called-out assembly (ekklesia) comprised of born-again believers. Not ANY denomination, Catholic, Protestant, nor Baptist.

 

[DaveXR650]

Tyndale made over 2000 translation errors in the New Testament alone, and he wasn’t authorised to translate the Bible. Besides there were already authorised English translations in circulation.
Secular authorities had to act because potential heresy from mistranslation could cause upheaval in non pluralist societies. He wasn’t a nice by all accounts either.

Straight off the Catholic Answers website, where by the way they condemn Wycliffe too. Apparently these ignorant indulgence selling priests were awash in accurate English Bibles and simply could not give them out fast enough to the common people. Keep going, with every post you look more and more like a crack-pot or maybe you really do represent what is behind the conciliary facade the higher level Roman ecumenical machine is trying to do on these sites promoting dialog.

 

[Silverhair]

I have contempt for the error that divides us, not for the brethren in error, who I consider brothers in Christ none the less, and all the more if they are prepared to contest for their love of Him.

15 “if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1 Timothy 3

Now, ask a Bible alone Protestant what he believes is the pillar and foundation of Truth is.
“ There is only one “ he will say, “ The Scripture alone “.

Yet strangely when we read the Scripture itself, it says that the Church is the “pillar and foundation of the truth “.

Ask a Catholic what the “ pillar and foundation of the truth “ is. And he will say “ The Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth, it is infallible, founded by Christ on the Apostles and guided in all Truth, “. This lines up with what scripture says of the Church, pillar and foundation of the truth, and in other scripture, guided in all truth. It’s saying the Church is infallible in other words.

Do we need anything else a part from the Scriptures?

Bible alone protestant will say “ No, everything we need is in the Scriptures, we need no other authority over us but the Word of God in Scripture “ Am I not correct? Is this a fair representation?

Yet Scripture says.

“Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.“

Ask a Catholic if we need anything else a part from the Scriptures.

He will say “ We need the elders and overseers of the Church who are infallibly guided to interpret God’s word and explain its meaning to us as Christ’s Apostolic Shepherds guided in all Truth. We must obey and submit to them because they watch over our souls “.

Who in practice is Scriptural here?

Do these scriptures demonstrate “ Me and my bible and me “, far from it.

The Apostles appointed bishops like Timothy and Titus to succeed them.

“ Teach and reprove with all Authority, let no one despise you “

So if Timothy and Titus was your overseer, they had complete Apostolic Authority over you, and you would obey and submit to their teaching because they watched over your souls.

You weren’t free to pick up scripture and interpret your own doctrines from it, there was a lineage of appointed Apostolic men with Authority to teach you the true interpretations of the Word.

Men outside this Apostolic lineage are unapproved and have no authority to teach and reprove anyone.

I have to ask what do you think the Church uses to establish this truth? It is not what the priest/Pope or minister thinks but the word of God, the scriptures. So Scripture Alone would eliminate all the error of your Pope or any minister that tries to alter the word of God. But Paul was affirming the crucial role of the church as the support and bulwark, not the source, of God’s truth.

Yes we are to obey those that have authority over us but they are to obey the word of God. We are all to e good stewards of His word and we should not follow any Pope or minister that has abused the word of God by twisting or altering it.

Christ spoke of such leaders when He condemned the Pharisees.
Mat 23:27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you resemble whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 In the same way, on the outside you appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

For any man or institution to claim infallibility is the height of arrogance. There has only been one man that was infallible the man Christ Jesus. That the RCC is not infallible is evident from both their dogma and their history.

In your RRC you are not free to pick up scripture and be guided by the Holy Spirit but for us Baptists that is the reality we live in. God holds us responsible for how we deal with Him and we learn how to do so from scripture. I or no other Baptist requires some

 

[Oseas3]

There is no time for many discussions. From now on, there will be no more any sense the existence of Churches or sects or Gospel movements. In this moment all are working in regular operation, but in full decadence and mystification, and among demonic religions. The scenario is totally favorable for the Devil to establish his fifth universal kingdom - the feet and 10 toes of the statue of Nebuchadnezzar.

But the Kingdom of GOD will also be established at the same time - Revelation 11:15-18. Then there will be WAR, it will be kingdom against kingdom - the Kingdom of GOD-Revelation 11:15-18-, against the kingdom of the Devil -> and those who are his the Devil will take with him, and those who are the Lord's, the Lord will take with Him. The children of the Devil of each nation will fight or make war against the children of GOD of the same nation, -> and they will be hated by all peoples.

Among the believers they will betray one another and many will be offended, and because iniquity abound, the love of many will grow cold.
Then there will be great tribulation and anguish on the earth, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this present time, no, nor ever will be. Then some will go to the right side to fight for GOD's Kingdom, many to the left as betrayers and cowards(Revelation 21:8), but he who endures to the end will be saved. The FIRE will test each one's work, and the unsaved of all churches and religions and beliefs will go into the burning fiery furnace.

2Peter 3:7- But the heavens(1st and 2nd heavens-Old and New Testaments-Ephesians 1:3-8) and the earth, which are now, by the same Word are kept in store, reserved unto FIRE against the Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men. ->This Day arrived, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last Millennium.Get ready.

2Peter 3:11-14

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the Day of GOD(Lord's Day, the seventh and last Day), wherein the heavens being on FIRE shall be DISSOLVED, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of Him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Get ready

Except these days (days of the current time) should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake these days shall be shortened.

Get ready

 

[Cathode]

I have to ask what do you think the Church uses to establish this truth? It is not what the priest/Pope or minister thinks but the word of God, the scriptures. So Scripture Alone would eliminate all the error of your Pope or any minister that tries to alter the word of God. But Paul was affirming the crucial role of the church as the support and bulwark, not the source, of God’s truth.

Yes we are to obey those that have authority over us but they are to obey the word of God. We are all to e good stewards of His word and we should not follow any Pope or minister that has abused the word of God by twisting or altering it.

Christ spoke of such leaders when He condemned the Pharisees.
Mat 23:27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you resemble whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 In the same way, on the outside you appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

For any man or institution to claim infallibility is the height of arrogance. There has only been one man that was infallible the man Christ Jesus. That the RCC is not infallible is evident from both their dogma and their history.

In your RRC you are not free to pick up scripture and be guided by the Holy Spirit but for us Baptists that is the reality we live in. God holds us responsible for how we deal with Him and we learn how to do so from scripture. I or no other Baptist requires some

Catholics are Word of God alone. But the Word of God is in two forms, Spoken and Written.
The Holy Spirit has guarded both in the Catholic Church.

 

[Cathode]

Straight off the Catholic Answers website, where by the way they condemn Wycliffe too. Apparently these ignorant indulgence selling priests were awash in accurate English Bibles and simply could not give them out fast enough to the common people. Keep going, with every post you look more and more like a crack-pot or maybe you really do represent what is behind the conciliary facade the higher level Roman ecumenical machine is trying to do on these sites promoting dialog.

Don’t go conspiratorial on me Dave. Oseas3 is more than enough.

 

[DaveXR650]

Don’t go conspiratorial on me Dave. Oseas3 is more than enough.

You're not involved in a conspiracy. Like I said before, the Catholics wouldn't have someone as offensive and ignorant as you representing them I'm sure. But your quip about Tyndale is not supported either in the history or accuracy. Once again, I am puzzled by the lack of moderation on this site where you are allowed to come on and make such unsupported claims with impunity. Tyndale's translation makes up between 75 and 90% of our KJV and yet you come on a Baptist forum and spew this garbage. They can have you.

 

[Silverhair]

Catholics are Word of God alone. But the Word of God is in two forms, Spoken and Written.
The Holy Spirit has guarded both in the Catholic Church.

Ahh that were true. Both your written and spoken word have shown that DO NOT hold to the word of God. The RCC over the years has both abused and misused the word of God to lead many astray form the true worship of God and His Christ.

 

[Silverhair]

You're not involved in a conspiracy. Like I said before, the Catholics wouldn't have someone as offensive and ignorant as you representing them I'm sure. But your quip about Tyndale is not supported either in the history or accuracy. Once again, I am puzzled by the lack of moderation on this site where you are allowed to come on and make such unsupported claims with impunity. Tyndale's translation makes up between 75 and 90% of our KJV and yet you come on a Baptist forum and spew this garbage. They can have you.

Dave do not let @Cathode upset you. He is more to be pitied as he has been blinded to the truth of scripture through the indoctrination of the RCC. We should pray for him that God the Holy Spirit will lead him away from that false institution and their errant teachings.

I have chosen to place him on ignore as he brings nothing to the table in the study of scripture.

 

[Cathode]

You're not involved in a conspiracy.

Well thank goodness, I thought you were starting to sound like another guy.

Like I said before, the Catholics wouldn't have someone as offensive and ignorant as you representing them I'm sure.

My ancestry here began with a highway man who was sentenced to death, but was commuted to life on a penal colony on the backside of the planet, what do you expect Dave, we say things as we see them, I almost shouldn’t exist. Since I do exist, I’ll take the opportunity to have a say.

But I haven’t abused anyone personally or called your beliefs satanic or pagan, like I said, it’s just a perspective Dave.

And I’m labourer who works in the hot sun all day, you have got to take that into consideration.

But your quip about Tyndale is not supported either in the history or accuracy.

Dave, I wouldn’t hold him up as hero or martyr from what I’ve read, I know it fits a narrative which nurses a prejudice.

Once again, I am puzzled by the lack of moderation on this site where you are allowed to come on and make such unsupported claims with impunity.

Dave, do you realise I’m barred from many sections of the site already, this is my only place I can express my faith and perspective on things.
There’s only a couple of Catholics on here as far as I know, me and Walter. You should wrap us in a blanket and tell us everything will be OK.

Tyndale's translation makes up between 75 and 90% of our KJV

That much, sorry to hear it Dave. So up to 25% of it wasn’t fit to go into the King James Version.

 

[DaveXR650]

The central premise of Bible alone Protestantism is.

The Bible is the sole rule of faith.

Thus the central premise is manifestly false by their disunity on essential doctrine.

But I haven’t abused anyone personally or called your beliefs satanic or pagan, like I said, it’s just a perspective Dave.

You start a thread that states that the central premise of Protestantism is "manifestly false".

That much, sorry to hear it Dave. So up to 25% of it wasn’t fit to go into the King James Version.

That's just smartalek and stupid. You don't understand translation or language or you are trying to be inflammatory.

There’s only a couple of Catholics on here as far as I know, me and Walter. You should wrap us in a blanket and tell us everything will be OK.

I wish I could. Roman Catholicism is one of those things where there is still enough truth within it that many of us believe that there can be truly saved people still worshipping under that system. This is especially true if you have some Calvinist beliefs in your own theology because of the belief that God initiates salvation and it's monergistic. But the sad fact is that the errors are such that one of two things usually happen. Either the tendency of leaving everything to the church causes a false security that causes members to go merrily to eternity with false hope, or for those who very seriously follow it's doctrine, there are enough fatal errors to lead one astray. It's very sad, really. The Puritan era and earlier reformers were probably right after all about the Roman church and what it would be in the end times. In your case, as your posts increasingly indicate, you just may be an individual crackpot who hopefully, doesn't represent Catholics either.

 

[Cathode]

You start a thread that states that the central premise of Protestantism is "manifestly false".

From my perspective Dave. From others perspectives, the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon.

Don’t you want to be able to hear things from different perspectives or even contrary perspectives, or do you prefer an insular echo chamber.

I don’t like echo chamber sites even if they were Catholic. How do you learn, grow or refine the knowledge you have.

That's just smartalek and stupid. You don't understand translation or language or you are trying to be inflammatory.

Again it’s perspectives Dave, and perhaps a gesture toward a little humour.

I wish I could. Roman Catholicism is one of those things where there is still enough truth within it that many of us believe that there can be truly saved people still worshipping under that system. This is especially true if you have some Calvinist beliefs in your own theology because of the belief that God initiates salvation and it's monergistic. But the sad fact is that the errors are such that one of two things usually happen. Either the tendency of leaving everything to the church causes a false security that causes members to go merrily to eternity with false hope, or for those who very seriously follow it's doctrine, there are enough fatal errors to lead one astray. It's very sad, really. The Puritan era and earlier reformers were probably right after all about the Roman church and what it would be in the end times. In your case, as your posts increasingly indicate, you just may be an individual crackpot who hopefully, doesn't represent Catholics either.

That’s good, that's your perspective well articulated.

From my side of things, I can’t see fallibility interpreted doctrines in Protestantism producing anything but dangerous outcomes.

See unless you have an infallible interpretation of scripture, you could be wrong in part or whole, with no surety on essentials.

I’m banking on Scripture being right and the Church is infallible, and there was only one Church even claiming infallibility.

 

[DaveXR650]

Don’t you want to be able to hear things from different perspectives or even contrary perspectives, or do you prefer an insular echo chamber.

I don’t like echo chamber sites even if they were Catholic. How do you learn, grow or refine the knowledge you have.

Sorry, but you're not the one to bring this up. Even when you are erroneously attacking Tyndale's translation you forget that he also used Erasmus's New Testament translation as well as the Latin Vulgate in his translation which, like I said ended up being used in the KJV. An example of good common ground there, but not for a gaslighting, wise cracker, who is filled with too much animosity to have a good discussion.

From my side of things, I can’t see fallibility interpreted doctrines in Protestantism producing anything but dangerous outcomes.

Your problem is that all doctrines and especially all systematized theologies made by men will be fallible, including those of the Roman Catholic church. God is infinite and we can at best only scratch the surface of his ways and our comprehension of them. You start with a presupposition that this is not true, that because of a false belief in a succession that can't be proved historically, and can't be verified as intended by scripture, you somehow know a group of people who could do this, and without error.

It is proven that they created instead a church massively corrupt, filled with errors. When Luther came along and put up a starting list of 95 things that were problematic he only wanted to reform from within. But he was excommunicated. Further study of scripture lead him further away, and as more people gained access to scripture the flood could not be stopped.

Protestant theology comes from a vast body of previous theology, most of which is Roman Catholic. Augustine is as much a part of Calvin's Institutes as Roman Catholic theology. Puritans frequently quoted Aquinas. My own church feels Erasmus probably gave as good as he got in his debate on free will with Luther. Jonathan Edwards liked Thomas Kempis and recommended him for reading.

In addition to all this, for Baptists, especially the free will side, there is an Anabaptist influence that is historically verified and real, combined with a Puritan and Arminian (classic Arminian) influence as well. You look at this as a flaw when in truth, this is evidence of true human search for truth as well as God working within these groups. If people are free to study God's words they must come up with differences or else there is an artificial forcing of uniformity by raw power alone. This is what Rome was. It has been broken, forever but that does not mean in my opinion that everything they ever did was wrong or every bit of theology was wrong. But you do not seem interested in addressing directly any points we bring up on here. Instead you keep repeating the old standard infallibility, succession dogma which we simply don't accept. It is no different than some of the Calvinists who used to be on here whose arguments consisted in continuously shouting that God does anything he wants and that failure to love and adore the TULIP was a heresy. At some point there is nothing else to say. I'm at that point with you.