ESV Vs. God's Word

[Rippon]

Okay, that header was a bit tricky. I'm not a KJO. I really don't like the name of the translation that I will just call GW.

The translation team calls their translation theory "closest natural equivalent." However, I think it's just a functionally-equivalent version.
I prefer the NLTse rather than the GWT overall in terms of the actual goals of each.

I had a thread awhile back which detailed the fact that the ISV translation liberally borrowed many renderings from the GWT without acknowledgement.

I will do my snippet rountine, occasionally quoting entire verses.

ESV = English Standard Version
GW = God's Word Translation

Job

Chapter 1

v.12
ESV : Behold,all that he has is in your hand.Only against him do not stretch out your hand.
GW : Everything he has is in your power,but you must not lay a hand on him!

v.17
ESV : While he was yet speaking
GW : While he was still speaking

Chapter 2

v.3
ESV : He still holds fast his integrity
GW : He is a man of integrity

v.7
ESV : loathsome sores
GW : painful boils

v.10
ESV : shall we not receive evil?
GW : Shouldn't we also accept the bad?

Chapter 3

v.3
ESV : A man is conceived.
GW : A boy has been conceived!

v.13
ESV : I would have lain down and been quiet
GW : I would now be quietly laying down.

v.25
ESV : what I dread befalls me
GW : What I dread happens to me.

Chapter 4

v.12
ESV : Now a word was brought to me stealthily;my ear received the whisper of it.
GW : I was told something secretly and heard something whispered in my ear.

v.15
ESV : A spirit glided past my face;the hair of my flesh stood up.
GW : A spirit passed in front of me.It made my hair stand on end.

v.17
ESV : Can mortal man be in the right before God?
GW : Can any mortal be righteous before God?

v.20
ESV : without anyone regarding it
GW : without anyone paying attention

v.21
ESV : Is not their tent-cord plucked up within them
GW : Haven't the ropes of their tent been loosened?

 

[Rippon]

Continuing In Job

Chapter 5

v.9
ESV : who does great things and unsearchable
GW : He does great things that we cannot understand

v.12
ESV : He frustrates the devices of the crafty
GW : He keeps shrewd people from carrying out their plans

v.15
ESV : from the sword of their mouth
GW : from their slander

Chapter 6

v.26
ESV : Do you think that you can reprove words, when the speech of a despairing man is wind?
GW : Do you think my words need correction? Do you think they're what a desperate person says to the wind?

Chapter 7

v.2
ESV : Like a slave who longs for the shadow
GW : Like a slave, he longs for shade.

v.3
ESV : so I am allotted months of emptiness
GW : Likewise, I have been given months that are of no use

v.20
ESV : Why have you made me your mark?
GW : Why do you make me your target?

v.21
ESV : For now I shall lie in the earth
GW : Soon I'll lie down in the dust.

Chapter 8

v.4
ESV : he has delivered them into the hand of their transgression
GW : he allowed them to suffer the consequencesd of their sinfulness

v.20
ESV : nor take the hand of evildoers
GW : or give a helping hand to wicked people

 

[Rippon]

Continuing In The Book Of Job

Chapter 9

v.2
ESV : But how can a man be in the right before God?
GW : But how can a mortal be declared righteous to God?

v.4
ESV : who has hardened himself against him, and succeeded?
GW : who could oppose him and win?

v.20
ESV : Though I am in the right
GW : If I am righteous

v.20 b.
ESV : he would prove me perverse
GW : It would declare that I am corrupt

v.31
ESV : my own clothes will abhor me
GW : my own clothes would find me disgusting

v.33
ESV : There is no arbiter between us
GW : There is no mediator between us

Chapter 10

v.7
ESV : there is none to deliver
GW : there is no one to rescue me

Chapter 11

v.2
ESV : Should a multitude of words go unanswered
GW : Shouldn't someone answer this flood of words?

v.19
ESV : many will court your favor
GW : many people will try to gain your favor

Chapter 12

v.22
ESV : He uncovers the deeps out of darkness
GW : He uncovers mysteries hidden in the darkness

 

[TomVols]

I would find it helpful if you'd post the Hebrew or Greek along with your version comparisons to see how the renderings of the various constructs (I admit, I'm a bit lazy to go back and look up all of them individually) :thumbs:

 

[Deacon]

Of course they're different, the two versions have different translation philosophies; different purposes.

God’s Word Translation … seeks to express that meaning naturally, in a way that a native English speaker would speak or write. ....
In CNE, [Closest natural equivalent] meaning and naturalness are equal partners. If the proposed words of a translation have the potential to convey the correct meaning of the source text but are not natural for English readers, most readers will probably not understand the text correctly. Likewise, if a translation uses natural English but does not convey the meaning of the source text well, most readers will probably misunderstand it.

English Standard Version

Translation Philosophy
The ESV is an “essentially literal” translation that seeks as far as possible to capture the precise wording of the original text and the personal style of each Bible writer.
As such, its emphasis is on “word-for-word” correspondence, at the same time taking into account differences of grammar, syntax, and idiom between current literary English and the original languages. Thus it seeks to be transparent to the original text, letting the reader see as directly as possible the structure and meaning of the original.

Rob

 

[Rippon]

I would find it helpful if you'd post the Hebrew or Greek along with your version comparisons to see how the renderings of the various constructs.

I'll leave that up to you and anyone else who so desires. That's not what I do. I am interested in showing the difference in phraselogy. The ESV is weak in English. It doesn't use standard English most of the time -- especially in the Old Testament.

 

[Rippon]

Of course they're different, the two versions have different translation philosophies; different purposes.

In the snippets of the two translational philosophical methods you provided -- GWT lives up to its goals -- the ESV doesn't.

 

[Rippon]

I will continue to contrast the ESV and GWT in two days. I'm taking a break.

 

[TomVols]

I'll leave that up to you and anyone else who so desires. That's not what I do. I am interested in showing the difference in phraselogy. The ESV is weak in English. It doesn't use standard English most of the time -- especially in the Old Testament.

I understand your point. That said, ultimately, the test of a translation is does it accurately convey the intention of the author as penned in the original language. You cannot be accurate if you aren't faithful to the original, nor can you be accurate if you aren't understandable.

Deacon, you make a good point. Comparing the two translations is a bit like apples and sandpaper. However, Rippon is right in that the ESV can at times have some befuddling word choices due to its unnecessary allegiance (IMHO) to it's daddy, the RSV. That said, 1 Peter 3 is clearer in the ESV than the NASB and HCSB after looking at it this weekend. So it depends on the pericope.

 

[Rippon]

Continuing In Job -- Have Patience

Chapter 13

v.9
ESV : when he searches you out
GW : when he cross-examines you

v.14
ESV : Why should I take my flesh in my teeth
GW : I am biting off more than I can chew

Chapter 14

v.2
ESV : continues not
GW : he doesn't stay long

v.3
ESV : And do you open your eyes on such a one and bring me into judgment with you?
GW : You observe this and call me to account to you.

v.11
ESV : As waters fail
GW : As water drains out of a lake

v.14
ESV : I would wait till my renewal should come
GW : I will wait for my relief to come

v.20
ESV : you change his countenance
GW : You change his appearance

v.21
ESV : he perceives it not
GW : he doesn't realize it

Chapter 15

v.2
ESV : Should a wise man answer with windy knowledge
G : Should a wise person answer with endless details

v.4
ESV : hindering meditation with God
GW : diminish devotion with God

v.23
ESV : He knows that a day of darkness is ready at his hand
GW : He knows that his ruin is close at hand.

v.31
ESV : Let him trust in emptiness
GW : He shouldn't trust in worthless things

Chapter 16

v.3
ESV : Shall windy words have an end?
GW : Will your long-winded speeches never end?

v.4
ESV : I could join words together against you
GW : I could string words together against you

v.6
ESV : my pain is not assuaged
GW : my pain is not eased

v.14
ESV : He breaks me with breach upon breach
GW : he inflicts wound after wound on me.

v.16
ESV : on my eyelids is deep darkness
GW : dark shadows encircle my eyes

 

[TomVols]

As water drains out of a lake

awzal doesn't really mean "drain." and "lake?" Yam never means that to the best of my knowledge. Here's the problem with the free translations - they substitute easily acceptible words with words that make you just scratch your heads.

Cf. NASB: "As water evaporates from the sea...."
Much clearer overall and more and descriptive of awzal. Beats the ESV. And beats the GWV by being more accurate and less obfuscating.

 

[Rippon]

awzal doesn't really mean "drain." and "lake?" Yam never means that to the best of my knowledge. Here's the problem with the free translations - they substitute easily acceptible [sic]words with words that make you just scratch your heads.

Cf. NASB: "As water evaporates from the sea...."
Much clearer overall and more and descriptive of awzal. Beats the ESV. And beats the GWV by being more accurate and less obfuscating.

According to the NET Bible The Hebrew word "yam" can mean either sea or lake.

What we call the sea of Galilee is actually a lake.

 

[Rippon]

Job 17

v.2
ESV : my eye dwells on their provocation
GW : My eyes are focused on their opposition.

v.7
ESV : My eye has grown dim from vexation
GW : Now my eyes are blurred from grief.

v.10
ESV : But you,come on again,all of you
GW : But now, all of you,come and try again!

Chapter 18

v.2
ESV : How long will you hunt for words?
GW : How long before your words will end?

v.12
ESV : His strength is famished
GW : Hunger undermines his strength.

v.14
ESV : He is torn from the tent in which he trusted
GW : He is dragged from the safety of his tent

v.15
ESV : In his tent dwells that which is none of his
GW : Fire lives in his tent.

v.17
ESV : he has no name in the street
GW : his reputation will not be known on the street corner

 

[TomVols]

According to the NET Bible The Hebrew word "yam" can mean either sea or lake.

Let me check NIDOTTE and get back to you. TWOT says otherwise, but maybe there are new lexical developments.

 

[Rippon]

In Job

Job 19

v.8
ESV : He has walled up my way
GW : God has blocked my path

v.17
ESV : My breath is strange to my wife
GW : My breath offends my wife
(ESV :LOL!)

v.25
ESV : For I know that my Redeemer lives
GW : But I know that my defender lives

Chapter 20

v.13
ESV : though he is loath to let it go
GW : won't let go of it

v.14
ESV : yet his food is turned in his stomach
GW : the food in his belly turns sour

Chapter 21

v.19
ESV : God stores up their iniquity for their children
GW : God saves a person's punishment for his children

v.34
ESV : How long will you comfort me with empty nothings?
GW : How long can you comfort me with this nonsense

Chapter 22

v.2
ESV : Can a man be profitable to God?
GW : Can a human be any use to God

v.3
ESV : if you are in the right
GW : when you are righteous

v.6
ESV : For you have exacted pledges of your brothers for nothing
GW : For no reason you take your brothers' goods as security for a loan

v.15
ESV : Will you keep the old way that wicked men have trod?
GW : Are you following the old path that wicked peoplehave taken?

v.21
ESV : thereby good will come to you
GW : In this way you will have prosperity

 

[Rippon]

Still In Job

Chapter 23

v.3
ESV : that I might come even to his seat
GW : I would go where he lives

v.8
ESV : Behold, I go forward,but he is not there,and backward,but I do not perceive him
GW : However, if I go east,he isn't there.If I go west,I can't find him.

v.9
ESV : on the left hand when he is working,I do not behold him;he turns to the right hand,but I do not see him.
GW : If I go northward,where he is at work,I can't observe him. If I turn southward,I can't see him.

v.11
ESV : My foot has held fast to his steps
GW : I have followed his footsteps closely.

v.13
ESV : But he is unchangeable
GW : But God is one of a kind

 

[TomVols]

v.13, ESV is more dynamic, isn't it, vis-a-vis, unchangable (Unique, one, etc.) and GWV more literal.

 

[Rippon]

v.13, ESV is more dynamic, isn't it, vis-a-vis, unchangable (Unique, one, etc.) and GWV more literal.

It appears so. The NASBU agrees more with the GW rendering. The Message has :"He is singular and sovereign."

 

[Phillip]

Rsv vs esv

The ESV is an update of the old translation RSV. They are still very much alike and many the language style is a mix of the so called "formal" styled used in the RSV days. Example: Read letters from our founding father's and they were usually very formal. Today we text each other and don't even spell correctly or use punctuation.

Times change and the ESV is probably closer than you think, but you have to understand that it is a mix of old and new. I read it as a comparison with my KJV and NASB when doing studies. I read the NIV or NLT for what I would call "light Bible reading to make me feel better".

We must also remember that new translations change in language depending on the date we translate it because kids do NOT use the same language our grandfathers did. English is alive and changing and the new dictionaries prove it by adding words we would never have thought would be added.

It may be someday where a translator says, Philip saw a dude going down the track or something similar rather than Philip saw a man going down the road. I know, bad example, but this is one reason that Modern versions sell and let's face it the publishers are in the profit business and it is a supply and demand economy. Many, I'm sure feel they are being guided by God but if I followed everybody who said God told them to do something I would be doing everything from murder to the right thing, so like the Bible says we have to discern what we understand or think comes from God.

First, what we feel God tells us cannot disagree with his written Word. From there it becomes more difficult. So, there are many variables going on here on the translations, but that is why the ESV is different. It is the mix of the RSV and corrections from Modern Translators.

Compare the two, you will be amazed. You can download esword and get both I think for free.

 

[TomVols]

IMHO, I think the ESV is too much like the RSV. I want to love the ESV, but I just can't give it my whole heart. I love it, but I'm not yet "in love" with it :thumbs: