Eternal Life

[kyredneck]

Can you explain your thoughts on this a bit more, with the use of Scripture, it's an area that interests me.

David

Sure. The kingdom of God is now: “... Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” IMO, few of His redeemed, born from above children, for whatever reasons, ever actually live experientially what's available to them in this kingdom; “for the kingdom of God is....righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.”

Few actually do this:

Yea, and for this very cause adding on your part all diligence, in your faith supply virtue; and in your virtue knowledge; and in your knowledge self-control; and in your self-control patience; and in your patience godliness; and in your godliness brotherly kindness; and in your brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, they make you to be not idle nor unfruitful unto the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he that lacketh these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins. Wherefore, brethren, give the more diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never stumble: for thus shall be richly supplied unto you the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Pet 1:5-11

Again, IMO, few of His children actually ever lay hold on eternal life and live it.

 

[Marcia]

Sure. The kingdom of God is now: “... Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” IMO, few of His redeemed, born from above children, for whatever reasons, ever actually live experientially what's available to them in this kingdom; “for the kingdom of God is....righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.”

Few actually do this:

Yea, and for this very cause adding on your part all diligence, in your faith supply virtue; and in your virtue knowledge; and in your knowledge self-control; and in your self-control patience; and in your patience godliness; and in your godliness brotherly kindness; and in your brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, they make you to be not idle nor unfruitful unto the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he that lacketh these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins. Wherefore, brethren, give the more diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never stumble: for thus shall be richly supplied unto you the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Pet 1:5-11

Again, IMO, few of His children actually ever lay hold on eternal life and live it.

I also thought you were espousing Millenniel Exclusion. Do you hold to that view?

 

[Marcia]

Thanks webdog, not up on that one, is it new?

I think Webdog can explain it better - I never heard of it before I came onto the BB and a few here were promoting it (then they were banned).

I think it has to do with a belief that not all those who are saved will rule with Jesus in the Kingdom. And they are cast into an outer darkness! When I first saw these views, it was very confusing as I didn't know what they were talking about until someone on the BB explained this view (a view with which I strongly disagree).

This is from a Q & A on ME with a rebuttal of it:

Christians who live carnal lives and do not qualify to reign with Christ in his kingdom are judged at the Judgment seat – the doctrine continues and says those unworthy Christians are slain and cast into outer darkness for the period of 1000 years. Then they are to be resurrected to live out eternity with God. The teaching is in a book “The Rod – Will God Spare It?” by JD Faust.___<MORE>__

http://newcreationperson.wordpress.com/2009/02/27/is-millennial-exclusion-biblical/

 

[kyredneck]

I also thought you were espousing Millenniel Exclusion. Do you hold to that view?

Marcia, this is the first I've ever heard of such a doctrine; I googled it and got this:

"It is that unfaithful Christians of this age will not be in the kingdom. That is, they will not participate in the millennial reign of Christ on earth, but will be excluded. Some actually teach that they will suffer in the lake of fire during this time because of their unfaithfulness."

My take on Rev 20 is amillennial.

 

[webdog]

Thanks webdog, not up on that one, is it new?

Charles Stanley holds to this view. It is the common eschatalogical view of those who hold to Free Grace theology. I tend to lean that way soteriologically, but I vehemently deny their eschatology (Millennial Exclusion).

Here's 51 pages that were condensed in the archives when this doctrine was banned from the BB a couple years ago...
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=42298&highlight=millenial+exclusion

 

[Robert Snow]

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Since this is the purpose of the Law, I don't see how obeying it could save us. Of course, we cannot even come close to total obedience. This young ruler was not honest with Jesus or with himself.

I believe Jesus was showing this man how far from total obedience to the Law he actually was, thus he walked away from Jesus. This showed he not only didn't obey the Law, he didn't even allow the Law to fulfill it purpose in his life.

 

[Aaron]

It sounds like the doctrine of Millennial Exclusion...which has been banned here at the BB.

It's not ME. It's Dispensationalism. However, ME is a logical conclusion of the Scofield brand of Dispensational Premillennialism. Being a Realized Millennialist (a.k.a. Amillennialist), it's very easy to judge it objectively.

 

[webdog]

It's not ME. It's Dispensationalism. However, ME is a logical conclusion of the Scofield brand of Dispensational Premillennialism. Being a Realized Millennialist (a.k.a. Amillennialist), it's very easy to judge it objectively.

No, it's ME. I'm a dispensationalist and I don't hold to ME.

 

[Winman]

Mark 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

This man was guilty of breaking at least two commandments. He did not love God with all his heart, he loved his money and possessions more. He was also guilty of covetousness as well.

But this young man did not see his sin, he was also guilty of self-righteousness. Notice when Jesus mentioned the commandments the young man said, "all these have I observed". This was not really true, and the young man had to be made aware of this.

And he did not trust God. Jesus told him to give up all his possessions and come follow him. This young man was a ruler. He had power, prestige, and great wealth. It would have been a great matter to leave all and follow a poor preacher around. But Jesus gave him a promise that if he would foresake all, he would have greater treasures in heaven. Obviously the young man was not willing to trust Christ. So he did not have faith.

 

[OldRegular]

Charles Stanley holds to this view. It is the common eschatalogical view of those who hold to Free Grace theology. I tend to lean that way soteriologically, but I vehemently deny their eschatology (Millennial Exclusion).

Here's 51 pages that were condensed in the archives when this doctrine was banned from the BB a couple years ago...
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=42298&highlight=millenial+exclusion

You got any references showing Stanley believes this stuff. Frankly I am not sure I have heard of it. If so it doesn't register now!

I am not dispensational, surprise. This heresy just goes to show that error begets gross error begets heresy.

 

[canadyjd]

It means just what it says. If one could obey the law, he would be a righteous man and eternal life would be given him as something he had earned.

But no one keeps the law, because no one is righteous. (Forget this "perfectly" poo-poo, no one even begins to keep the law.) Christ's instruction to the ruler was one that showed him that he really had not kept the law as he had boasted. He was guilty of covetousness, which means that in his heart he was guilty of the whole law.

The passage from Matt. 19:17 is more explicit.

"....but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

So, as you said, if you could keep the commandments, you would enter into life.

However, as others have already pointed out, nobody can keep the commandments perfectly, therefore we need a savior.

peace to youraying:

 

[Winman]

However, as others have already pointed out, nobody can keep the commandments perfectly, therefore we need a savior.

I used to work with a fellow who belonged to some sort of Holiness church. He actually believed that a person could completely overcome sin and sin no more. He once told me of an old man in his church who had not sinned in years.

Of course, I laughed and said that was completely impossible. Then I bet him he could not go 24 hours without sinning.

He said, "Oh, that's easy, I can easily go 24 hours without sinning!"

I said, "Well, you just blew it, the scriptures say boasting is a sin, and you just boasted."

Man, he got so angry I thought he was going to slug me. :laugh:

 

[canadyjd]

I used to work with a fellow who belonged to some sort of Holiness church. He actually believed that a person could completely overcome sin and sin no more. He once told me of an old man in his church who had not sinned in years.

Of course, I laughed and said that was completely impossible. Then I bet him he could not go 24 hours without sinning.

He said, "Oh, that's easy, I can easily go 24 hours without sinning!"

I said, "Well, you just blew it, the scriptures say boasting is a sin, and you just boasted."

Man, he got so angry I thought he was going to slug me. :laugh:

lol:laugh:

He may have been a part of the Nazerenes. I have heard that they believe a Christian can obtain sinless perfection on earth.

Of course, as you pointed out, to admit you believe that about yourself sure seems to be prideful boasting.

Not only that, it appears he was angry with a brother.

Matt. 5:22 "but I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court..."

Man, that must have taken him a least a week to overcome before he became sinless again.

peace to youraying: