Eternal Punishment In The Early Church

[SavedByGrace]

There are some who pervert the True Message of the Holy Bible, on the Final State of the lost wicked, after they die. The Teaching of the Holy Bible is very clear, especially in the Teachings of Jesus Christ, Who spoke more about “Eternal Suffering”, than anyone else in the Bible, that the lost wicked will very sadly, spend eternity in conscious suffering. Like any of the other Bible Truths, the devil has sought to remove this from the Bible, and, sadly, using some who are otherwise “evangelical” in their theology, like Dr John Stott, to do this for him.

Here are just some of the teachings from the early Church on “Eternal Suffering”, as a punishment for the lost wicked.

The Epistle of Barnabas (70-130 AD)

“The way of darkness is crooked, and it is full of cursing. It is the way of eternal death with punishment”

Ignatius of Antioch (110 AD)

“Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death. how much more if a man corrupt by evil reaching the faith of God. for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire: and so will anyone who listens to him” (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1-2)

Clement of Rome (150 AD)

“If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment” (Second Clement 5:5)

“But when they see how those who have sinned and who have denied Jesus by their words or by their deeds are punished with terrible torture in unquenchable fire, the righteous, who have done good, and who have endured tortures and have hated the luxuries of life, will give glory to their God saying, ‘There shall be hope for him that has served God with all his heart!” (Second Clement 17:7)

The Martyrdom of Polycarp (155 AD)

“And, looking to the grace of Christ, they despised all the torments of this world, redeeming themselves from eternal punishment by [the suffering of] a single hour. For this reason the fire of their savage executioners appeared cool to them. For they kept before their view escape from that fire which is eternal and never shall be quenched, and looked forward with the eyes of their heart to those good things which are laid up for such as endure; things "which ear has not heard, nor eye seen, neither have entered into the heart of man” (Chapter 2)

Athenagoras of Athens (175 AD)

“we are persuaded that when we are removed from the present life we shall live another life, better than the present one, and heavenly, not earthly (since we shall abide near God, and with God, free from all change or suffering in the soul, not as flesh, even though we shall have flesh, but as heavenly spirit), or, falling with the rest, a worse one and in fire; for God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, a mere by-work, and that we should perish and be annihilated. On these grounds it is not likely that we should wish to do evil, or deliver ourselves over to the great Judge to be punished” (Apology, chapter 33)

Theophilus of Antioch (181 AD)

“ Admitting, therefore, the proof which events happening as predicted afford, I do not disbelieve, but I believe, obedient to God, whom, if you please, do you also submit to, believing Him, lest if now you continue unbelieving, you be convinced hereafter, when you are tormented with eternal punishments; which punishments, when they had been foretold by the prophets, the later-born poets and philosophers stole from the holy Scriptures, to make their doctrines worthy of credit. Yet these also have spoken beforehand of the punishments that are to light upon the profane and unbelieving, in order that none be left without a witness, or be able to say, "We have not heard, neither have we known." But do you also, if you please, give reverential attention to the prophetic Scriptures, and they will make your way plainer for escaping the eternal punishments, and obtaining the eternal prizes of God. For He who gave the mouth for speech, and formed the ear to hear, and made the eye to see, will examine all things, and will judge righteous judgment, rendering merited awards to each. To those who by patient continuance in well-doing seek immortality, He will give life everlasting, joy, peace, rest, and abundance of good things, which neither has eye seen, nor ear heard, nor has it entered into the heart of man to conceive. But to the unbelieving and despisers, who obey not the truth, but are obedient to unrighteousness, when they shall have been filled with adulteries and fornications, and filthiness, and covetousness, and unlawful idolatries, there shall be anger and wrath, tribulation and anguish, and at the last everlasting fire shall possess such men. Since you said, "Show me your God," this is my God, and I counsel you to fear Him and to trust Him.” (To Autolycus. Bk.1, Ch14)

Irenaeus (189 AD)

“Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven,, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess’ to Him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all; that He may send ‘spiritual wickednesses,’ and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, together with the ungodly, and unrighteous, and wicked, and profane among men, into everlasting fire; but may, in the exercise of His grace, confer immortality on the righteous, and holy, and those who have kept His commandments, and have persevered in His love, some from the beginning of their Christian course, and others from the date of their repentance, and may surround them with everlasting glory” (Against Heresies. 1:10:10)

“The penalty increases for those who do not believe the Word of God and despise his coming. . . . it is not merely temporal, but eternal. To whomsoever the Lord shall say, ‘Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire,’ they will be damned forever” (Against Heresies. 4:28:2)

Clement of Alexandria (195 AD)

“All souls are immortal, even those of the wicked. Yet, it would be better for them if they were not deathless. For they are punished with the endless vengeance of quenchless fire. Since they do not die, it is impossible for them to have an end put to their misery” (from a post-Nicene manuscript fragment)

Tertullian (197 AD)

“Therefore after this there is neither death nor repeated resurrections, but we shall be the same that we are now, and still unchanged–the servants of God, ever with God, clothed upon with the proper substance of eternity; but the profane, and all who are not true worshippers of God, in like manner shall be consigned to the punishment of everlasting fire–that fire which, from its very nature indeed, directly ministers to their incorruptibility” (Apology 48:12)

Hippolytus of Rome (212 AD)

“Standing before [Christ’s] judgment, all of them, men, angels, and demons, crying out in one voice, shall say: ‘Just is your judgment!’ And the righteousness of that cry will be apparent in the recompense made to each. To those who have done well, everlasting enjoyment shall be given; while to the lovers of evil shall be given eternal punishment. The unquenchable and unending fire awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which does not die and which does not waste the body but continually bursts forth from the body with unceasing pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment; no appeal of interceding friends will profit them” (Against the Greeks. 3)

Cyprian (253 AD)

“An ever-burning Gehenna and the punishment of being devoured by living flames will consume the condemned; nor will there be any way in which the tormented can ever have respite or be at an end. Souls along with their bodies will be preserved for suffering in unlimited agonies… The grief at punishment will then be without the fruit of repentance; weeping will be useless, and prayer ineffectual. Too late will they believe in eternal punishment, who would not believe in eternal life” (To Demetrian 24)

 

[Baptist Believer]

The Epistle of Barnabas (70-130 AD)

“The way of darkness is crooked, and it is full of cursing. It is the way of eternal death with punishment”

This quote, given out of its context, does not teach eternal suffering. The conditional mortality view holds to both punishment, followed by death (eternal).

Ignatius of Antioch (110 AD)

“Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death. how much more if a man corrupt by evil reaching the faith of God. for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire: and so will anyone who listens to him” (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1-2)

This says nothing about eternal suffering. The fire is not quenched (see Isaiah 66:24) before it has consumed them.

Clement of Rome (150 AD)

“If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment” (Second Clement 5:5)

The punishment is eternal in its consequences. It is capital punishment for body, soul, and spirit.

“But when they see how those who have sinned and who have denied Jesus by their words or by their deeds are punished with terrible torture in unquenchable fire, the righteous, who have done good, and who have endured tortures and have hated the luxuries of life, will give glory to their God saying, ‘There shall be hope for him that has served God with all his heart!” (Second Clement 17:7)

This passage does not speak of eternal suffering, only suffering. The fire is not quenched (prematurely put out), but it says nothing of duration.

The Martyrdom of Polycarp (155 AD)

“And, looking to the grace of Christ, they despised all the torments of this world, redeeming themselves from eternal punishment by [the suffering of] a single hour. For this reason the fire of their savage executioners appeared cool to them. For they kept before their view escape from that fire which is eternal and never shall be quenched, and looked forward with the eyes of their heart to those good things which are laid up for such as endure; things "which ear has not heard, nor eye seen, neither have entered into the heart of man” (Chapter 2)

This says nothing of eternal conscious torment, only that the fire is eternal. If it has multiple sources, a fire can continue to burn long after the FIRST log has been consumed.

Athenagoras of Athens (175 AD)

“we are persuaded that when we are removed from the present life we shall live another life, better than the present one, and heavenly, not earthly (since we shall abide near God, and with God, free from all change or suffering in the soul, not as flesh, even though we shall have flesh, but as heavenly spirit), or, falling with the rest, a worse one and in fire; for God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, a mere by-work, and that we should perish and be annihilated. On these grounds it is not likely that we should wish to do evil, or deliver ourselves over to the great Judge to be punished” (Apology, chapter 33)

This is a valid passage in support of all human beings having eternal existence. Of course, he is not writing scripture, so we have to simply acknowledge that this view was around in the second century.

Theophilus of Antioch (181 AD)

“ Admitting, therefore, the proof which events happening as predicted afford, I do not disbelieve, but I believe, obedient to God, whom, if you please, do you also submit to, believing Him, lest if now you continue unbelieving, you be convinced hereafter, when you are tormented with eternal punishments; which punishments, when they had been foretold by the prophets, the later-born poets and philosophers stole from the holy Scriptures, to make their doctrines worthy of credit. Yet these also have spoken beforehand of the punishments that are to light upon the profane and unbelieving, in order that none be left without a witness, or be able to say, "We have not heard, neither have we known." But do you also, if you please, give reverential attention to the prophetic Scriptures, and they will make your way plainer for escaping the eternal punishments, and obtaining the eternal prizes of God. For He who gave the mouth for speech, and formed the ear to hear, and made the eye to see, will examine all things, and will judge righteous judgment, rendering merited awards to each. To those who by patient continuance in well-doing seek immortality, He will give life everlasting, joy, peace, rest, and abundance of good things, which neither has eye seen, nor ear heard, nor has it entered into the heart of man to conceive. But to the unbelieving and despisers, who obey not the truth, but are obedient to unrighteousness, when they shall have been filled with adulteries and fornications, and filthiness, and covetousness, and unlawful idolatries, there shall be anger and wrath, tribulation and anguish, and at the last everlasting fire shall possess such men. Since you said, "Show me your God," this is my God, and I counsel you to fear Him and to trust Him.” (To Autolycus. Bk.1, Ch14)

This is a valid passage in support of eternal conscious torment. Again, this is not scripture.

Irenaeus (189 AD)

“Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven,, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess’ to Him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all; that He may send ‘spiritual wickednesses,’ and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, together with the ungodly, and unrighteous, and wicked, and profane among men, into everlasting fire; but may, in the exercise of His grace, confer immortality on the righteous, and holy, and those who have kept His commandments, and have persevered in His love, some from the beginning of their Christian course, and others from the date of their repentance, and may surround them with everlasting glory” (Against Heresies. 1:10:10)

This does not support eternal conscious torment. It does mention "everlasting fire," but fire is not torment. Moreover, he specifically points out that God confers immortality on the righteous, not the wicked, which puts him squarely in line with the Conditional Mortality viewpoint.

 

[Baptist Believer]

“The penalty increases for those who do not believe the Word of God and despise his coming. . . . it is not merely temporal, but eternal. To whomsoever the Lord shall say, ‘Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire,’ they will be damned forever” (Against Heresies. 4:28:2)

This simply does not support eternal conscious torment.

Clement of Alexandria (195 AD)

“All souls are immortal, even those of the wicked. Yet, it would be better for them if they were not deathless. For they are punished with the endless vengeance of quenchless fire. Since they do not die, it is impossible for them to have an end put to their misery” (from a post-Nicene manuscript fragment)

This is a valid example of the eternal conscious torment viewpoint being held at the end of the second century. Again, not scripture, so this opinion is not binding on anyone.

Tertullian (197 AD)

“Therefore after this there is neither death nor repeated resurrections, but we shall be the same that we are now, and still unchanged–the servants of God, ever with God, clothed upon with the proper substance of eternity; but the profane, and all who are not true worshippers of God, in like manner shall be consigned to the punishment of everlasting fire–that fire which, from its very nature indeed, directly ministers to their incorruptibility” (Apology 48:12)

This is also a valid example of the eternal conscious torment viewpoint being held at the end of the second century. Again, not scripture, so this opinion is not binding on anyone.

Hippolytus of Rome (212 AD)

“Standing before [Christ’s] judgment, all of them, men, angels, and demons, crying out in one voice, shall say: ‘Just is your judgment!’ And the righteousness of that cry will be apparent in the recompense made to each. To those who have done well, everlasting enjoyment shall be given; while to the lovers of evil shall be given eternal punishment. The unquenchable and unending fire awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which does not die and which does not waste the body but continually bursts forth from the body with unceasing pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment; no appeal of interceding friends will profit them” (Against the Greeks. 3)

This is also a valid example of the eternal conscious torment viewpoint being held at the beginning of the third century. Again, not scripture, so this opinion is not binding on anyone.

Cyprian (253 AD)

“An ever-burning Gehenna and the punishment of being devoured by living flames will consume the condemned; nor will there be any way in which the tormented can ever have respite or be at an end. Souls along with their bodies will be preserved for suffering in unlimited agonies… The grief at punishment will then be without the fruit of repentance; weeping will be useless, and prayer ineffectual. Too late will they believe in eternal punishment, who would not believe in eternal life” (To Demetrian 24)

This is also a valid example of the eternal conscious torment viewpoint being held at the middle of the third century. Again, not scripture.


Have you noticed that your early citations tended not to support your viewpoint, while the later ones more frequently did? That's the influence of Platonism in the early church.

 

[SavedByGrace]

This quote, given out of its context, does not teach eternal suffering. The conditional mortality view holds to both punishment, followed by death (eternal).


This says nothing about eternal suffering. The fire is not quenched (see Isaiah 66:24) before it has consumed them.


The punishment is eternal in its consequences. It is capital punishment for body, soul, and spirit.


This passage does not speak of eternal suffering, only suffering. The fire is not quenched (prematurely put out), but it says nothing of duration.


This says nothing of eternal conscious torment, only that the fire is eternal. If it has multiple sources, a fire can continue to burn long after the FIRST log has been consumed.


This is a valid passage in support of all human beings having eternal existence. Of course, he is not writing scripture, so we have to simply acknowledge that this view was around in the second century.


This is a valid passage in support of eternal conscious torment. Again, this is not scripture.


This does not support eternal conscious torment. It does mention "everlasting fire," but fire is not torment. Moreover, he specifically points out that God confers immortality on the righteous, not the wicked, which puts him squarely in line with the Conditional Mortality viewpoint.

So you too have been deceived by the devil into believing that there is no eternal suffering for the lost. This HERESY makes Jesus Christ, Who gave the most warnings about hell, to be a liar.

 

[Baptist Believer]

So you too have been deceived by the devil...

No, I have been led by the Holy Spirit as I have studied this issue for two decades.

...into believing that there is no eternal suffering for the lost.

Because the Bible teaches that.

This HERESY makes Jesus Christ, Who gave the most warnings about hell, to be a liar.

No, your interpretation of the scriptures is mistaken.

Let's look at the words of Jesus:

The wicked will be killed/destroyed
Matthew 3:12 – His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
Matthew 13:30 – Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”
Matthew 13:40-42 – “So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. “The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
John 15:6 – If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Eternal life contrasted with perishing/death
John 3:16 – For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24 – “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 11:25-26 – Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
John 12:25 – “He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life”.

Eternal life must be received or one will face destruction
Luke 9:24-25 – For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost?

Eternal life must be received from God
Matthew 7:13-14 – “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matthew 16:25-27 – For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.
Matthew 19:29 – And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
Mark 8:35-37 – For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel’s will save it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?
Luke 18:18 – A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
Luke 18:29-30 – And He said to them, “Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, who will not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal life.”
Luke 20:34-36 – Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
John 3:36 – Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
John 4:14 – but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”
John 5:39-40 – “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
John 6:27 – Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
John 6:33 – For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
John 6:40 – For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
John 6:51 – I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
John 6:58 – “This is the bread which came down from heaven – not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”
John 6:68 – Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.
John 8:51 – I tell you the truth, anyone who obeys my teaching will never die!”
John 10:28 – “And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.”

 

[SavedByGrace]

No, I have been led by the Holy Spirit as I have studied this issue for two decades.


Because the Bible teaches that.


No, your interpretation of the scriptures is mistaken.

Let's look at the words of Jesus:

The wicked will be killed/destroyed
Matthew 3:12 – His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
Matthew 13:30 – Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”
Matthew 13:40-42 – “So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. “The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
John 15:6 – If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Eternal life contrasted with perishing/death
John 3:16 – For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24 – “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
John 11:25-26 – Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
John 12:25 – “He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life”.

Eternal life must be received or one will face destruction
Luke 9:24-25 – For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost?

Eternal life must be received from God
Matthew 7:13-14 – “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matthew 16:25-27 – For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.
Matthew 19:29 – And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.
Mark 8:35-37 – For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel’s will save it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?
Luke 18:18 – A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
Luke 18:29-30 – And He said to them, “Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, who will not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal life.”
Luke 20:34-36 – Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
John 3:36 – Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
John 4:14 – but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”
John 5:39-40 – “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
John 6:27 – Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
John 6:33 – For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
John 6:40 – For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
John 6:51 – I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
John 6:58 – “This is the bread which came down from heaven – not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”
John 6:68 – Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.
John 8:51 – I tell you the truth, anyone who obeys my teaching will never die!”
John 10:28 – “And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.”

I suggest that you study all of these verses using the Greek text, and then checking the meanings of the words in Greek lexicons. You will then for yourself, that none of the Greek words used in the Bible, for "perish, destroy", etc, mean "annihilate"

 

[Yeshua1]

This simply does not support eternal conscious torment.


This is a valid example of the eternal conscious torment viewpoint being held at the end of the second century. Again, not scripture, so this opinion is not binding on anyone.


This is also a valid example of the eternal conscious torment viewpoint being held at the end of the second century. Again, not scripture, so this opinion is not binding on anyone.


This is also a valid example of the eternal conscious torment viewpoint being held at the beginning of the third century. Again, not scripture, so this opinion is not binding on anyone.


This is also a valid example of the eternal conscious torment viewpoint being held at the middle of the third century. Again, not scripture.


Have you noticed that your early citations tended not to support your viewpoint, while the later ones more frequently did? That's the influence of Platonism in the early church.

Jesus stated that hell is eternal state, as did John and other Apostles!

 

[Yeshua1]

I suggest that you study all of these verses using the Greek text, and then checking the meanings of the words in Greek lexicons. You will then for yourself, that none of the Greek words used in the Bible, for "perish, destroy", etc, mean "annihilate"

It means to be in a ruined state, to not having eternal life, to being seperated form presence of God, but not burnt up!

 

[Baptist Believer]

I suggest that you study all of these verses using the Greek text, and then checking the meanings of the words in Greek lexicons. You will then for yourself, that none of the Greek words used in the Bible, for "perish, destroy", etc, mean "annihilate"

Apparently you mean something quite specific by annihilate. Moreover, I don't think I've used the word annihilate to describe my view. I'm describing Conditional Immortality. Those who reject Christ will face punishment and destruction that will eventually end in the second death.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Apparently you mean something quite specific by annihilate. Moreover, I don't think I've used the word annihilate to describe my view. I'm describing Conditional Immortality. Those who reject Christ will face punishment and destruction that will eventually end in the second death.

lets see some Scriptures for this teaching. The ones that you have provided say nothing of what you are suggesting!

 

[Baptist Believer]

Jesus stated that hell is eternal state, as did John and other Apostles!

My viewpoints are based on scripture, not assertions. Please provide scripture for your assertion so we can discuss it.

It means to be in a ruined state...

I agree. They are dead.

[/QUOTE],,,to not having eternal life[/QUOTE]
I agree. They are dead.

...to being seperated form presence of God

This is a recent view (a take on being "cast into the outer darkness" - Matthew 8:12) that is intended to avoid discussing the "traditional" view of hell with flames and torture.

...but not burnt up!

This is completely false. Jesus spoke quite specifically about the lost being burnt up:

Matthew 3:12 – His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

Matthew 13:30 – Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”

Matthew 13:40-42 – “So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. “The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

John 15:6 – If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.​

Please notice that tares and branches burn and are reduced to ashes. They do not remain eternally tortured in the fire. So you are incorrect about what Jesus taught about the lost being burnt up.

 

[SavedByGrace]

My viewpoints are based on scripture, not assertions. Please provide scripture for your assertion so we can discuss it.


I agree. They are dead.

,,,to not having eternal life[/QUOTE]
I agree. They are dead.


This is a recent view (a take on being "cast into the outer darkness" - Matthew 8:12) that is intended to avoid discussing the "traditional" view of hell with flames and torture.


This is completely false. Jesus spoke quite specifically about the lost being burnt up:

Matthew 3:12 – His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

Matthew 13:30 – Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”

Matthew 13:40-42 – “So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. “The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

John 15:6 – If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.​

Please notice that tares and branches burn and are reduced to ashes. They do not remain eternally tortured in the fire. So you are incorrect about what Jesus taught about the lost being burnt up.[/QUOTE]

People who don't really know what they are talking about should not keep misusing Scriptures to support their heresies!

 

[Yeshua1]

Apparently you mean something quite specific by annihilate. Moreover, I don't think I've used the word annihilate to describe my view. I'm describing Conditional Immortality. Those who reject Christ will face punishment and destruction that will eventually end in the second death.

Except that scriptures indicate eternal punishment and banishment!