Eternal security of the believer

There is no such thing as a carnal believer. This is their fate. They are cast into the fire (Hell).

Jhn 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Jhn 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Jhn 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Jhn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Jhn 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
Jhn 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

 

These verses are written to believers. Paul is not speaking of enduring for the free gift of eternal salvation. We shouldn't hope to be saved, we should know we are saved based on the finished work of Christ. Then we should hope for the prize of reigning with Him in His kingdom.

 

Jesus can cast a man into hell and bring him out again.
Revelation 20:13-15
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.​

HankD​

 

RE: John 15

There are those in Christ who do not bear fruit...

John 15​

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: ​

They are "taken away" but not burned.​

Those who are burned are those who are NOT in Christ.​

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.​

Abiding in Christ is what we do because of the indwelling Spirit.​

There will be perhaps a multitude of folks who have a presumption of salvation (abiding in Him) but are not His:​

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?​

They not only call Him "Lord" but use an emphatic "Lord, Lord" and claim "many wonderful works" done in His name.​

Yet He says "I never knew you" and calls them "workers of iniquity".​

Note the word "never" - not at any time for any duration, in other words they were "never" saved.​

HankD​

 

Good post HankD

"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us."-1 John 2:19 NIV

 

I already posted this a few posts back but will repost it here once more.

Yep! Because if you stop trusting you haven't earned the right to be a child of God.

NOTE: saved is in the past perfect tense showing a completed act HAS been done. Which takes works out of the equation and keeps your boasting silent.
It is also in the passive voice which means The passive voice represents the subject as being the recipient of the action. And in no way indicates the action is continued on nor is it completed by the subject. Interesting how one word can unravil such drivil like conditional salvation.

We can not save ourselves and by that token if we can not save ourselves we (with great assurance) can not keep ourselves saved since it was an act of God to begin with. Unless of course you are greater than God who saved you.

It is of note what John stated in I John 2:19:

 

Amen, Brother Allan! Preach it!

Ed

 

It is what it is, whether I say anything about it or not.

I like what my Professor at SEBTS stated: Dr. Carson (the Wheel)

You've heard the saying: God said it, I believe it, and that settles it.
and many of you believe it to be true. Unfortunately for you it is not a true saying.

The true saying is more aptly phrased thus:
God said it, that settled it, whether or not you choose to believe it.

How true that statement is!

 

Amen, Brother Allan! --Preach it!

-the other Ed

 

Correct, these verses are written to believers. Note the warning about not producing fruit. How do you explain that?

 

For Judgement only. When someone goes to Hell they stay in Hell for all eternity.

 

There is no qualification here on who must abide in Christ. It pertains to everyone, those who have paid lip service to Him and those who are unbelievers.

 

Is Christs SALVATION Eternal....or not?

Let me answer the question I posed in my own title line.......EMPHATICALLY YES !!!! Eternal LIFE is just that...eternal. The Lord Jesus Christ saves to the uttermost all who come to Him by faith believing He is VERY God in the flesh and lived a perfect sinless life,dying on the cross and shedding His own precious Blood as a payment and covering for our sin for ALL ETERNITY. We are not nor could we ever be saved on our own merits or by our own works. ANY form of so-called salvation that is not ETERNAL and EVERLASTING is not Biblical and is not of God. I won't get into quoting verse after verse of scripture all over again in this short statement. I shouldn't have to on a Baptist website. Any supposed salvation that is "conditional" upon our WORKS to stay saved or requires the so-called believer to "persevere to the end" by any form of so-called "good works" is ANOTHER GOSPEL and should be rejected. Your works won't save you nor keep you saved if you get saved. Only the Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ will save and it is on the MERITS of the finished work of Christ that we are saved and KEPT THAT WAY. If I didn't believe that I'd either consider shooting myself before I lost it or pray that God would take me home by His own method (since I don't believe in suicide) ASAP. God Bless Ya'll....hope you can find some peace and security.

In Christ Jesus,
Greg Perry Sr.:thumbs: :type: :saint: :jesus:

 

I would explain it as a warning... to believers. I disagree with HankD's assessment that those who are in Christ but do not bear fruit are not burned. They are certainly burned.

Well, that is your contention, but I don't think you can find a scripture to back that up. When Jesus said that whosoever believed on Him would be raised up on the last day, what day could He mean if it was not the last day at the great white throne, where oddly enough we see the dead being raised for judgment? God is perfectly able to judge a believer for sin, upholding His justice and holy standards, while at the same time save a believer in eternity, preserving His grace and mercy.

If you look at the verses again, it is implicit by the wording that some of those coming out of Hell will be written in the book of life and will not be cast into the lake of fire. You may deny this, but you would never speak that way unless that were the case. Example:

'Johnny, go clean out the garage. Take everything out, and whatever is old and rusty put it by the curb for the garage sale'. Does Johnny's dad want to sell everything in the garage because everything is old and rusty? Of course not. It is to be understood that some things will not be sold in the garage sale. The car, for instance. Another example.

'I spent the weekend fishing. I caught a bunch of fish, and whatever fish were not 12 inches long, I threw back.' Does this mean I didn't catch any fish over 12 inches long? No.

Compare to the scriptures:
Revelation 20
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Anyone reading this would assume that there were people written in the book of life, that is unless they were already prejudiced against such an interpretation. By arbitrarily deciding that no one can be written in the book of life at this time, you have cut yourself off from a proper interpretation of the scriptures.

 

I think you missinterpreted something I said because I agree with you. I believe that there will be both saved and damned people at the Rev. 20 Judgement. Some will go to Heaven and some will go to Hell.

 

What verse makes you believe that?

 

I'm not talking about a salvation dependent on works. I am talking about a born-again experience which cause the true Christian to bear fruit. Jesus always asked those who were interested in salvation to come and FOLLOW HIM. There is no such thing as a Christian who doesn't do that, a so-called carnal Christian.


Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

 

Matthew 10:22 (KJV1611 Edition):
And yee shall be hated of all men for my Names sake:
but he that endureth to the end, shalbe saued.

There are two propositions here, both of which are
Biblically correct and both of which are frequently
misunderstood.

First of all, the verse starts with 'AND'.
I reacall several of my middle grades (4-8)
said "never to start a sentence with 'and' ".

The propositions are numbered and put into
if-then format. These statements are proven
true in the Bible, here in Matt 10:22 and other
places:

1. if you bear Christ's name, then you shall be hated of all men
2. If you are saved, then you will endure to the end

There are related statements that are independantly true.
That is the true/false value is independant of the truth
of the similiar statements. These statements have to
be proved sepeate from the two statements above.

-1. If you are hated of all men, then you bear Christ's name
-2. if you endure to the end, then you shall be saved

IMHO -1 is patently FALSE.
If you are hated of all men, you could just be
like a horse's rear end.

IMHO -2. is patently TRUE.
IT is just the definition of what 'saved' means.

 

Ed,

Oh come on! You know better than that. No excuse for you to understand Matt. 10:22, even, also Matt. 24:13 too. Matt. 10:22 is clearly speak to us as followers. That Christ commands us that, we ought to be endure to the end while we follow Christ. We do not give up or quit, while we are in the race or battleground. Once we are on the narrow road of Matthew 7, we ought to be endure on the narrow road to the end. Many of us are easily give up and quit, never back and make it all the way. Shall not have eternal life at the end. Obivously, it is conditional.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!