Eternal Security

[Jedi Knight]

"HP: But that particular verse begs the question, how do I know it refers to me?" Who is he addressing? Saints! If your not sure it refers to you I would not let another day go by without being sure if I am in Christ.

 

[gb93433]

The only way we have to judge the state of our own soul subsequent to initital faith is by our actions and the witness of the Spirit. The Spirit does not attest to our final standing with God while sin is active and unrepented of in our lives.

I would disagree with your assertion. I would add God's word to the first part and disagree with the second part of your statements. The same Holy Spirit who convicts one of sin righteousness and judgment is the same Spirit who speaks to the believer and confirms or denies his life is right. A good example today is Bob Harrington (http://www.thechaplain.com/prodigal_father.htm). To suggest that anyone is sinless is wrong. Eccl. 7:20, "Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins."

How else our 'we' going to examine 'ourselves?' James addresses the one that simply says he has faith. We cannot judge our faith by our faith or have faith in our faith. There must be some supporting evidence via works to judge it by.

That can be American easy believeism theology to the core. We see that among many who go to churches or do not go to church but who believe God will accept them if they are a good person and do good things as though thsoe good things serve mankind and the good things outweigh the bad. A person can be viewed as a good person and not have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. While good works can confirm some things it does little to confirm eternal security and salvation in Jesus Christ. While thsoe who are in Christ do good works it is not the major focus of their life. Christ is. We are to focus on Christ the author and perfecter of our faith. He is our example. The Christian life is not about good works but about Christ. The Holy Spirit confirms the focus of my faith.

If one makes shipwreck of their faith, they must have had faith to begin with. If it is possible to make shipwreck of ones faith, it is possible to have a proper standing before God and lose that standing due to disobedience.

Isn't that like saying a person once believed God existed and had a relationship with Him and now he does not? You never lose the relationship but certainly the quality of your relationship and your own life. A good example is the prodigal son. He still had the relationship of a son and never stopped being a son, even though he left and did his own thing, but the quality of the relationship changed. So it can be with God and us. James 1:21, "Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls." The word used for souls means your very life.

They may refuse the correction and in the end be lost. If there is moral accountability, there must be freedom to do something other than what one does under the very same set of circumstances.

Man is free to sin or not sin. He who does wrong will receive the consequences of that wrong. Suicide is a good example. One cannot gain salvation by faith and lose salvation by works.

In this life deception is a real possibility for all of us. We have to constantly prove our faith, and examine our selves to see that we are remaining of the faithful. You nor I know with absolute certainly of our final standing with Christ.

I have no doubt of my eternal standing. I do not walk around on egg shells each day wondering if I am saved. I know my salvation is secure and I am in Christ. I also know if what I am doing to live the Christian life is right or not. There is a difference between eternal salvation and doing good works. Remember what Nicodemus asked Jesus in John 3. Jesus did not respond by telling the man to do good works. Jn 3:14-15, "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life."

I believe we can know with certainty, just not absolute certainty. If faith is involved there must be some element of the possibility of doubt.

Certainly I agree. However I have never seen that happen to someone who is actively living the Christian life by sharing their faith and making disciples.

You cannot 'hope for' or 'have faith in' that which is known as an absolute reality. We know by faith, as proved out by what we witness as the results of our formed intents and actions enlightened by the Holy Spirit. God alone knows absolutely of the salvation of any. He has withheld such absolute knowledge until the time of the testing of our faith is over.

Paul addressed that issue in 1 Cor 15.

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

The crown of life is the reward of life. It is not about eternal salvation. (1 Cor. 3:15 addresses that issue)The situation in James is about persecution and what may happen to a person who receives Christ and becomes a follower of Jesus Christ. He also deal with trials and temptation. Temptation is from within and trials are external.

 

[Jedi Knight]

"The crown of life is the reward of life. It is not about eternal salvation. (1 Cor. 3:15 addresses that issue)The situation in James is about persecution and what may happen to a person who receives Christ and becomes a follower of Jesus Christ. He also deal with trials and temptation. Temptation is from within and trials are external." Totally Agree,I hear this mistaken for eternal life but look at the context and Job was REWARDED here for his endurance.:jesus: