RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
The real problem is not solved for feminists (or others) in any case. For that, they would have to demonstrate that the Son was not subordinate to the Father on earth. Our current state and relationships are temporal. When we treat them otherwise, we cause a host of problems. I don’t expect the godless to get this, but we Christians must. We desperately need mature ones in charge.This truth about the Trinity has sometimes been summarized in the phrase “ontological equality but economic subordination,” where the word ontological means “being.”See section D.1, above, where economy was explained to refer to different activities or roles. Another way of expressing this more simply would be to say “equal in being but subordinate in role.” Both parts of this phrase are necessary to a true doctrine of the Trinity: If we do not have ontological equality, not all the persons are fully God. But if we do not have economic subordination,Economic subordination should be carefully distinguished from the error of "subordinationism," which holds that the Son or Holy Spirit are inferior in being to the Father (see section C.2, above, p. 245.) then there is no inherent difference in the way the three persons relate to one another, and consequently we do not have the three distinct persons existing as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit for all eternity. For example, if the Son is not eternally subordinate to the Father in role, then the Father is not eternally “Father” and the Son is not eternally “Son.” This would mean that the Trinity has not eternally existed.
This is why the idea of eternal equality in being but subordination in role has been essential to the church’s doctrine of the Trinity since it was first affirmed in the Nicene Creed, which said that the Son was “begotten of the Father before all ages” and that the Holy Spirit “proceeds from the Father and the Son.” Surprisingly, some recent evangelical writings have denied an eternal subordination in role among the members of the Trinity,See, for example, Richard and Catherine Kroeger, in the article "Subordinationism" in EDT: They define subordinationism as "a doctrine which assigns an inferiority of being, status, or role to the Son or the Holy Spirit within the Trinity. Condemned by numerous church councils, this doctrine has continued in one form or another throughout the history of the church" (p. 1058, emphasis mine). When the Kroegers speak of "inferiority of...role" they apparently mean to say that any affirmation of eternal subordination in role belongs to the heresy of subordinationism. But if this is what they are saying, then they are condemning all orthodox Christology from the Nicene Creed onward and thereby condemning a teaching that Charles Hodge says has been a teaching of "the Church universal." Similarly, Millard Erickson, in his Christian Theology (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1983-85), pp. 338 and 698, is willing only to affirm that Christ had a temporary subordination in function for the period of ministry on earth, but nowhere affirms an eternal subordination in role of the Son to the Father or the Holy Spirit to the Father and the Son. (Similarly, his Concise Dictionary of Christian Theology p. 161.) Robert Letham, in "The Man-Woman Debate: Theological Comment," WTJ 52:1 (Spring 1990), pp. 65-78, sees this tendency in recent evangelical writings as the outworking of an evangelical feminist claim that a subordinate role necessarily implies lesser importance or lesser personhood. Of course, if this is not true among members of the Trinity, then it is not necessarily true between husband and wife either. but it has clearly been part of the church’s doctrine of the Trinity (in Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox expressions), at least since Nicea (a.d. 325).
What then are the differences between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? There is no difference in attributes at all. The only difference between them is the way they relate to each other and to the creation. The unique quality of the Father is the way he relates as Father to the Son and Holy Spirit. The unique quality of the Son is the way he relates as Son. And the unique quality of the Holy Spirit is the way he relates as Spirit. - Wayne Grudem Systematic Theology Full Chapter: Trinity (by Wayne Grudem) | Free Online Biblical Library
Ravi Zacharias tells of how he explained something related to this to a reporter who quickly became an inquirer at his lecture. Afterward, she questioned him on racism and the LGBTQ issue. When he spoke of treating both race and gender as sacred, it shed a whole new light on it for her.
Will we accept our God-given roles? Will we become “martyrs” for Christ? I use this term in the biblical sense. That is, will we be witnesses by living according to God’s design, God’s calling?