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"Eternally begotten of the Father"...?

Agnus_Dei

New Member
DHK said:
It was started by a pastor with no connections to any other church.
But of course, that's the mark of Protestantism, you know, start your own, what's happening now church...so your pastor has no connections to any other Church? Who ordained your pastor? There's no sending church that sent your pastor out, he just woke-up one morning and decided to self ordain himself and start a church. Is it really that simple DHK? Doesn't sound like the NT Church to me...
DHK said:
you check my profile you will see that I am a missionary. And yes, I am a pastor as well.
Still DHK, where did you obtain your pastoral qualifications...what seminary did you attend? Like Timothy, who was your "St. Paul"?

InXC
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Agnus_Dei

New Member
DHK said:
...I point out things that went on in my church. He lives in Witchita Kansas, according to his profile. I live in norhthern Alberta. Take a good look at a map of North America. Is Agnus an Gnostic or a medium in an occult? Which one? Please explain how he knows intimate details of what went on in my church on March 23. To make such substantial claims is far beyond his reach of knowledge, in fact knowledge only God (or demons) could only know. So if you agree with Agnus please explain how. Do you also have this gift of ESP, this occultish knowledge of knowing exactly what I am doing at any given time? I feel that you are in deep trouble if you say you do. This is what Agnus is claiming. He has never been the thousands of miles here, and certainly wasn't in my church on March 23. Why does he claim to know only what God knows?
Apparently DHK the mail must be slow in Alberta, but March 23rd was Easter, you know the day in which the Protestant Church, including Rome marks the Resurrection of Christ?

I assume you also missed the memo on Christmas...the birth of Christ?
DHK said:
is independent of all other churches. We are not part of any organizational structure. Hence we are an Independent Baptist Church who adheres to the fundamentals of the faith.
btw, here's a link to my pervious IFB Church I attended when I lived in Indianapolis, IN for four years. Faith Baptist Church They say they're the True Church and they on March 23rd marked the Resurrection of Christ.

InXC
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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Agnus_Dei said:
But of course, that's the mark of Protestantism, you know, start your own, what's happening now church...so your pastor has no connections to any other Church?
No, it is not the mark of Protestantism.
You show a total lack of knowledge in this subject. Why don't you just quit. Most protestants are noted for their large organizational structures and even hierarchal structure. Baptists have none, especially the IFB's. No we have no connections to any other church. What connections did Faith Baptist Church in Indianapolis have? What denomination are they a part of? You were there for four years? What denomination were they a part of?
Who ordained your pastor? There's no sending church that sent your pastor out, he just woke-up one morning and decided to self ordain himself and start a church. Is it really that simple DHK?
Acts 14:23 And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.
Still DHK, where did you obtain your pastoral qualifications...what seminary did you attend?
Why do you persist in asking? I don't like boasting of my education. It does no good. Do you think that if I tell you what my qualifications are that that will convince you. No, it will only make you more skeptical. But to satisfy you: I have a B.A., M.A., M.Ed., and have been teaching in Bible College for over a quarter century. I was ordained in 1977.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Agnus_Dei said:
Apparently DHK the mail must be slow in Alberta, but March 23rd was Easter, you know the day in which the Protestant Church, including Rome marks the Resurrection of Christ?
Rome took over a day of the celebration of the goddess of Astarte, which eventually became Easter. I don't have anything to do with that, nor with the church of Rome. Neither did we ever come out of Protestantism, but existed before it.
I assume you also missed the memo on Christmas...the birth of Christ?
I am not a Catholic. I don't believe in the "mass of Christ." That is a heretical belief. Christ was sacrificed once and once for all.
btw, here's a link to my pervious IFB Church I attended when I lived in Indianapolis, IN for four years. Faith Baptist Church They say they're the True Church and they on March 23rd marked the Resurrection of Christ.
No doubt they do celebrate the Resurrection of Christ; but it is doubtful that they celebrate Easter.
 

Matt Black

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
DHK said:
Matt,

I didn't deny any facts. I gave testimony to the facts. I gave testimony to the facts regarding my own church. How do you say I denied facts when I described what went on in my own church?
The so-called facts about which you are deluded are as follows, quoting your goodself:-

1.
IFB churches are not Protestants and never were. They were not part of the Protestant movement

2.
You don't know what a "church" is. My "church" doesn't belong to a "Church", something that doesn't exist.

3.
A "church" (ekklesia) is an assembly of believers that are baptized and gathered together for the purpose of carrying out the Great Commission and the commands that Christ has given them. That is the only type of church that is defined in the Bible. There is no other.

Need I go on?

You still haven't answered Agnus' pertinent question: who ordained you and your pastor, and with what authority?
 
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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Matt Black said:
The so-called facts about which you are deluded are as follows, quoting your goodself:-
I am asked question about my personal life, and you say I am quoting myself. What a lark! :laugh:

1. You quoted me as saying:
" IFB churches are not Protestants and never were. They were not part of the Protestant movement."

I don't need to provide evidence for that (at least not right now, for this is not the thread for it), because I have given testimony that our church is not a part of the Protestant movement, and never has been. It is an Independent Church apart from all other Protestant churches. Either believe my testimony or call me a liar. Apparently you revel in calling me a liar, for you know nothing of my church, and refuse the testimony of me and of my church even though you have never been here.

I also have challenged Agnus to go to his former church, Faith Baptist, and ask what denomination they belong to? Apparently he has not done that, and is not willing to.

2. You quoted me as saying:
You don't know what a "church" is. My "church" doesn't belong to a "Church", something that doesn't exist.
--I thought you knew better than this. This is not just my authority; but the authority of the Greek language.
"Ekklesia" means assembly, every time it is used in the NT. It has no other meaning. If it was properly translated (as it is in the Darby translation) it would be translated either "assembly" or "congregation." That is what the word means. There is no such thing as a universal church except in heaven where all believers will be gathered together as one assembly. My local church is my assembly, my congregation. There is no such thing as a denomination in the Bible. You won't find it there.

You won't find it in the Greek. You won't find it in the doctrine of ecclesiology (theology). It isn't there. Every church made its own decisions. None of the churches were related to each other. What went on in Corinth was completely separate from what went on in Philippi. The letters written to both churches were not from some greater church organization, or from a pope. Paul was a missionary giving advice to churches that he had been to, and churches that he had started. That is the only connection that he had to these churches. They had no connection to one another. They were all independent of each other and made their decisions as churches. I take my authority from the Word of God.

3. You quoted me saying:
"A "church" (ekklesia) is an assembly of believers that are baptized and gathered together for the purpose of carrying out the Great Commission and the commands that Christ has given them. That is the only type of church that is defined in the Bible. There is no other."

The above definition of a local church is found in many Baptist statements of faith and also in many Baptist textbooks such as Hiscox's "A New Directory of Baptist Churches," a common textbook used in many Bible Colleges.
Need I go on?
Need I go on?
No, you are making yourself look very foolish.
You still haven't answered Agnus' pertinent question: who ordained you and your pastor, and with what authority?
As to credentials I answered even though I don't have her.
There is a place for anonymity on this board. I like to keep it that way.
As for general policy. It is in the power of the local church itself to ordain a pastor (after reviewing his credentials). The local church alone has that power. It was given to the local church by God himself. You will find that in Scripture. Study Acts 13:1-4, along with Acts 14:23.
 
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Agnus_Dei

New Member
DHK said:
I am not a Catholic. I don't believe in the "mass of Christ." That is a heretical belief. Christ was sacrificed once and once for all.
Please DHK, we all know you’re not Catholic…I ask if your Church celebrates Christmas or scratch that, does your Church celebrate the Birth of Christ on December 25th traditionally known as “Christmas”?

DHK said:
No doubt they do celebrate the Resurrection of Christ; but it is doubtful that they celebrate Easter.
Does you’re Church celebrate the Resurrection of Christ, was it on March 23rd, traditionally known as “Easter”?

DHK, don’t hem haw around, just answer the questions…

InXC
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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Agnus_Dei said:
Please DHK, we all know you’re not Catholic…I ask if your Church celebrates Christmas or scratch that, does your Church celebrate the Birth of Christ on December 25th traditionally known as “Christmas”?
If you are an atheist, and I tell you that if can prove beyond any shadow of doubt that Christ arose from the dead, will you accept my proof. The atheist invariably answers "NO." You are the same way. I have answered over and over and over again. Why do you repeat the same silly questions for me to repeat the same answers which really have nothing to do with this thread.

No, I do not celebrate Christmas in any way on December 25.
Is that clear enough. Don't ask me again. No false innuendos. No false accusations. Leave it.
Does you’re Church celebrate the Resurrection of Christ, was it on March 23rd, traditionally known as “Easter”?

DHK, don’t hem haw around, just answer the questions…

InXC
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No, I do not celebrate Easter in any way.

Now as a moderator of this thread, if you keep on about these questions, which have been asked and answered multiplied times I will have to delete them if they are asked again. They have nothing to do with the topic of the thread, do they?
 

Agnus_Dei

New Member
DHK said:
If you are an atheist, and I tell you that if can prove beyond any shadow of doubt that Christ arose from the dead, will you accept my proof. The atheist invariably answers "NO." You are the same way. I have answered over and over and over again. Why do you repeat the same silly questions for me to repeat the same answers which really have nothing to do with this thread.

No, I do not celebrate Christmas in any way on December 25.
Is that clear enough. Don't ask me again. No false innuendos. No false accusations. Leave it.

No, I do not celebrate Easter in any way.

Now as a moderator of this thread, if you keep on about these questions, which have been asked and answered multiplied times I will have to delete them if they are asked again. They have nothing to do with the topic of the thread, do they?
See DHK, I have to ask such questions, b/c you claim that you’re an IFB and this confuses me, b/c again I was raised IFB, my dad is a deacon in a IFB Church and we always celebrated the Birth of Christ on December 25th and the Resurrection of Christ during Easter. Granted there were no “Santa Claus” or “Easter Bunny”, but those days were always set aside with special music, a dinner, maybe even a presentation, but always growing up we knew what “Christmas” and “Easter” was truly about.

Doesn’t the Jehovah’s Witnesses not celebrate Christmas either? That’s odd.

In XC
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Agnus_Dei

New Member
DHK said:
1. You quoted me as saying:
" IFB churches are not Protestants and never were. They were not part of the Protestant movement."

I don't need to provide evidence for that (at least not right now, for this is not the thread for it), because I have given testimony that our church is not a part of the Protestant movement, and never has been. It is an Independent Church apart from all other Protestant churches.
DHK, so the IFB Church is like the Orthodox Church…”Pre-Denominational”. How far back can you trace the word “Baptist” in regard to Churches being called “Baptist”?

Also, for the class DHK, can you name a few second, third, fourth, fifth century “Baptist” fathers that were martyred and also provide for the class documentation of their martyrdom what they believed theologically (to see if that fits with today’s Baptist distintives) and what were the names of these “pre-denominational” “Baptist” Churches and there locations geographically?

InXC
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Matt Black

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
DHK said:
I am asked question about my personal life, and you say I am quoting myself. What a lark! :laugh:
Er...no. If you'd taken the trouble to read my post accurately you would have seen that it was I quoting you. Since you were inaccurate in that, one is forced to wonder what else you are inaccurate on. That however becomes abundantly clear in you next nugget of wisdom:

1. You quoted me as saying:
" IFB churches are not Protestants and never were. They were not part of the Protestant movement."
I rest my case

I don't need to provide evidence for that
Really? Why ever not? Surely it is right and proper when a man makes an unsubtantiated assertion for him to then adduce evidence to substantiate it?
(at least not right now, for this is not the thread for it)
I'm more than happy for you to give it here, since otherwise your claim remains without substance, but feel free to start another thread on this specific issue should you so wish
because I have given testimony that our church is not a part of the Protestant movement, and never has been.
And you testimony is plain wrong - why should we believe something that's wrong?
It is an Independent Church apart from all other Protestant churches.
As are all Protestant churches - the Lutherans are apart from the Presbyterians, the Calvinists are apart from the Arminians, the pre-trib dispies are separate from the covenantists, and the Brethren are separate from everyone including each other, LOL, and so on and so on ad nauseam. In other words , your church is as Protestant as Big Ian Paisley
Either believe my testimony or call me a liar. Apparently you revel in calling me a liar, for you know nothing of my church, and refuse the testimony of me and of my church even though you have never been here.
I have not and am not calling you a liar; there are other ways of being wrong, sincere ways, such as delusion or mistake and I am perfectly willing to accept that you fall into either of those categories.



2. You quoted me as saying:
You don't know what a "church" is. My "church" doesn't belong to a "Church", something that doesn't exist.
--I thought you knew better than this. This is not just my authority; but the authority of the Greek language.
"Ekklesia" means assembly, every time it is used in the NT. It has no other meaning. If it was properly translated (as it is in the Darby translation) it would be translated either "assembly" or "congregation."
Frankly, I wouldn't trust J N Darby to sit the right way round on a bathroom seat theologically - I've seen the horrendous damage he and his ilk have caused in my wife's Brethren family - so I am utterly unimpressed by an appeal to anything tainted by that man's pernicious influence.
That is what the word means. There is no such thing as a universal church except in heaven where all believers will be gathered together as one assembly. My local church is my assembly, my congregation. You won't find it in the Greek. You won't find it in the doctrine of ecclesiology (theology). It isn't there. Every church made its own decisions. None of the churches were related to each other. What went on in Corinth was completely separate from what went on in Philippi. The letters written to both churches were not from some greater church organization, or from a pope. Paul was a missionary giving advice to churches that he had been to, and churches that he had started. That is the only connection that he had to these churches. They had no connection to one another. They were all independent of each other and made their decisions as churches. I take my authority from the Word of God.
Guess Jesus got it wrong then in Matt 16:18 when He spoke about building His Church (singular); guess St Paul got it wrong when he wrote about Jesus being the Head of His Body (singular), the Church (singular) (Eph 4:15; Col 1:18). But of course you know better than them, don't you, and are content to have Christ and His Body divided - is that correct? Why do you persist in going against Christ and His Body in this way?

3. You quoted me saying:
"A "church" (ekklesia) is an assembly of believers that are baptized and gathered together for the purpose of carrying out the Great Commission and the commands that Christ has given them. That is the only type of church that is defined in the Bible. There is no other."

The above definition of a local church is found in many Baptist statements of faith and also in many Baptist textbooks such as Hiscox's "A New Directory of Baptist Churches," a common textbook used in many Bible Colleges.
See above; I guess our Lord and St Paul didn't get the memo about the Baptist correction to their idea of Church, but I'm sure they'll be grateful to be put right.
Need I go on?
No, you are making yourself look very foolish.
My advice to you is: when you're in a hole, stop digging...pretty soon there won't be a ladder long enough to lift you out
As to credentials I answered even though I don't have her.
There is a place for anonymity on this board. I like to keep it that way.
Why so coy? It's very unlike you to be so backward in coming forward. You are unlikely to be 'outed' simply because you give the credentials (we weren't asking for the name) of the individual who ordained you.
As for general policy. It is in the power of the local church itself to ordain a pastor (after reviewing his credentials). The local church alone has that power. It was given to the local church by God himself. You will find that in Scripture. Study Acts 13:1-4, along with Acts 14:23.
Specifically who in the local church? Everyone? Or an individual? Or a select few? If the latter, who and on what basis? The verse you cited refer to ordination by the Apostles. Which Apostle ordained you and your pastor?
 
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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Agnus_Dei said:
See DHK, I have to ask such questions, b/c you claim that you’re an IFB and this confuses me, b/c again I was raised IFB, my dad is a deacon in a IFB Church and we always celebrated the Birth of Christ on December 25th and the Resurrection of Christ during Easter. Granted there were no “Santa Claus” or “Easter Bunny”, but those days were always set aside with special music, a dinner, maybe even a presentation, but always growing up we knew what “Christmas” and “Easter” was truly about.
Did your pastor preach the truth about "Easter?"
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Many, perhaps most, Pagan religions in the Mediterranean area had a major seasonal day of religious celebration at or following the Spring Equinox. Cybele, the Phrygian fertility goddess, had a fictional consort who was believed to have been born via a virgin birth. He was Attis, who was believed to have died and been resurrected each year during the period MAR-22 to MAR-25. "About 200 B.C. mystery cults began to appear in Rome just as they had earlier in Greece. Most notable was the Cybele cult centered on Vatican hill ...Associated with the Cybele cult was that of her lover, Attis (the older Tammuz, Osiris, Dionysus, or Orpheus under a new name). He was a god of ever-reviving vegetation. Born of a virgin, he died and was reborn annually. The festival began as a day of blood on Black Friday and culminated after three days in a day of rejoicing over the resurrection." 3[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Wherever Christian worship of Jesus and Pagan worship of Attis were active in the same geographical area in ancient times, Christians "used to celebrate the death and resurrection of Jesus on the same date; and pagans and Christians used to quarrel bitterly about which of their gods was the true prototype and which the imitation." [/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Many religious historians believe that the death and resurrection legends were first associated with Attis, many centuries before the birth of Jesus. They were simply grafted onto stories of Jesus' life in order to make Christian theology more acceptable to Pagans. Others suggest that many of the events in Jesus' life that were recorded in the gospels were lifted from the life of Krishna, the second person of the Hindu Trinity. Ancient Christians had an alternative explanation; they claimed that Satan had created counterfeit deities in advance of the coming of Christ in order to confuse humanity. 4 Modern-day Christians generally regard the Attis legend as being a Pagan myth of little value. They regard Jesus' death and resurrection account as being true, and unrelated to the earlier tradition.
[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter1.htm[/FONT]


[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Did he preach the truth about Christmas?[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]--That Christ was never born on Dec.25.[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]--That the early Christians never celebrated Christians.[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]--That his birth was probably in the spring when the shepherds were out tending their sheep.
[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]--That Dec.25, like Easter, is also associated with pagan feasts and rituals.
[/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]
[/FONT]

The middle of winter has long been a time of celebration around the world. Centuries before the arrival of the man called Jesus, early Europeans celebrated light and birth in the darkest days of winter. Many peoples rejoiced during the winter solstice, when the worst of the winter was behind them and they could look forward to longer days and extended hours of sunlight.
In Scandinavia, the Norse celebrated Yule from December 21, the winter solstice, through January. In recognition of the return of the sun, fathers and sons would bring home large logs, which they would set on fire. The people would feast until the log burned out, which could take as many as 12 days. The Norse believed that each spark from the fire represented a new pig or calf that would be born during the coming year.
The end of December was a perfect time for celebration in most areas of Europe. At that time of year, most cattle were slaughtered so they would not have to be fed during the winter. For many, it was the only time of year when they had a supply of fresh meat. In addition, most wine and beer made during the year was finally fermented and ready for drinking.
In Germany, people honored the pagan god Oden during the mid-winter holiday. Germans were terrified of Oden, as they believed he made nocturnal flights through the sky to observe his people, and then decide who would prosper or perish. Because of his presence, many people chose to stay inside.
http://www.history.com/minisite.do?...ent_type_id=1252&display_order=1&mini_id=1290




In Rome, where winters were not as harsh as those in the far north, Saturnalia—a holiday in honor of Saturn, the god of agriculture—was celebrated. Beginning in the week leading up to the winter solstice and continuing for a full month, Saturnalia was a hedonistic time, when food and drink were plentiful and the normal Roman social order was turned upside down. For a month, slaves would become masters. Peasants were in command of the city. Business and schools were closed so that everyone could join in the fun.
Also around the time of the winter solstice, Romans observed Juvenalia, a feast honoring the children of Rome. In addition, members of the upper classes often celebrated the birthday of Mithra, the god of the unconquerable sun, on December 25. It was believed that Mithra, an infant god, was born of a rock. For some Romans, Mithra's birthday was the most sacred day of the year.
http://www.history.com/minisite.do?...play_order=1&sub_display_order=2&mini_id=1290

The key is in the word "Independent. We are not a denomination, if you ask your former pastor. We are independent of each other. We have our own statements of faith. We are not bound to each other by one catechism. It is the beauty of sola scriptura. Search the web for other IFB churches. You will find that they differ in their statements of faith, but only by a little bit. Study up on it.
 

Agnus_Dei

New Member
DHK said:
Did your pastor preach the truth about "Easter?"
No, he didn’t, but what’s funny is that what you posted, both about Easter and Baptism from another Thread in terms of history is also in the History of Civilization volume set. My IFB Pastor used that source to preach a whole series on Islam. When I went to the Library to verify his source I also found that the same author slammed Christianity as being a rip-off from paganism and used your cites as proof.

When I questioned him, he told me to keep it quite…he didn’t expect people to verify his sources.

The same source you cite in terms of “Easter” is the same material atheists use to discredit Christianity as being a rip-off of various pagan beliefs…I’m ashamed of you pastor…what if some soul searching out the truth reads your cites and convinces him, that Christianity is a hoax?

Fortunately, I’m strong in my faith, to celebrate Easter, with the Easter Bunny and Easter Egg hunts, and all the festivities and still keep in the forefront of all the festivities that what this is all about is our Lord trampling down death by death, that Hades couldn’t contain Him and His Church is pretty good at that, from what I just experienced last week of Holy Week.

DHK said:
We are not a denomination...
What do you think “Non-Denomination” means?


DHK said:
The key is in the word "Independent…We are independent of each other. We have our own statements of faith. We are not bound to each other by one catechism. It is the beauty of sola scriptura… You will find that they differ in their statements of faith, but only by a little bit.
Beauty of Sola Scriptura? Beauty? Your Churches can’t even agree on a statement of faith, causing nothing more than confusion. How’s one supposed to know which “independent” Church is has the “right” statement of faith?

At least in the Antiochian Jurisdiction of the Orthodox Church, we enjoy Autocephaly, meaning we are “Self-headed”, but still our Creed and our Liturgy is what bounds us to each of the other Orthodox Churches; which means I can visit an Orthodox Church in Romania and will recite the same creed and enjoy the same Liturgy as I would in Wichita, KS and the same theology. I could then travel to Lebanon and do the same, back to Moscow, then to Greece and never have to worry that I’m in a Church of not like faith.

DHK said:
Study up on it.
I did…hence I left…

InXC
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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Agnus_Dei said:
No, he didn’t, but what’s funny is that what you posted, both about Easter and Baptism from another Thread in terms of history is also in the History of Civilization volume set. My IFB Pastor used that source to preach a whole series on Islam. When I went to the Library to verify his source I also found that the same author slammed Christianity as being a rip-off from paganism and used your cites as proof.
I posted the history of Easter and Christmas. There are many people, Baptist and others, that would disagree with me (not on the history), but using that as a reason not to celebrate the two events. One of the Baptist distinctives we hold dearly and have fought for throughout the centuries is soul liberty--the right for one to believe what is right and true. Faith Baptist may celebrate those events; I don't. It is a matter of soul liberty. The teaching isn't an essential doctrine. It isn't a fundamental of the doctrine. It really doesn't matter does it? It is not going to affect my standing with God, my salvation, whether I go to heaven or hell, my walk with God, etc. It simply is a matter of believing what the Bible teaches on a certain subject. Thus we can agree to disagree and still be brothers in Christ and have fellowship one with another pertaining to this one subject.

Likewise our views on Islam are bound to be the same. I am not sure what your complaint was there. Information on Islam can be gathered from many different sources: both religious and secular.
The same source you cite in terms of “Easter” is the same material atheists use to discredit Christianity as being a rip-off of various pagan beliefs…I’m ashamed of you pastor…what if some soul searching out the truth reads your cites and convinces him, that Christianity is a hoax?
Because Christianity is not a hoax as is demonstrated by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. A dictionary has many words in it. Do I disregard a dictionary because some of the words I dislike? That seems to be your logic here.
Fortunately, I’m strong in my faith, to celebrate Easter, with the Easter Bunny and Easter Egg hunts, and all the festivities and still keep in the forefront of all the festivities that what this is all about is our Lord trampling down death by death, that Hades couldn’t contain Him and His Church is pretty good at that, from what I just experienced last week of Holy Week.
Perhaps you are weak in your faith and that is why you celebrate Easter with all of its pagan additions. It is all tradition, most of it pagan. You don't have the backbone to stand up for what is right.
What do you think “Non-Denomination” means?
It means that you accept people of any denomination into your church. It means that your church has sacrificed some doctrine on the altar of unity. For the sake of unity and compromise the non-denominational church is weak in doctrine and will not preach against certain doctrines which will affect other denominations. That is why it is non-denominational. It has no backbone.
Beauty of Sola Scriptura? Beauty? Your Churches can’t even agree on a statement of faith, causing nothing more than confusion. How’s one supposed to know which “independent” Church is has the “right” statement of faith?
Like I stated our statements of faith are very similar with minor differences. The celebration of Christmas or Easter is a very minor difference, wouldn't you say. It is not going to affect a person's salvation. If you want to know which is the "right" statement of faith, then do what you are supposed to do: study your Bible.
At least in the Antiochian Jurisdiction of the Orthodox Church, we enjoy Autocephaly, meaning we are “Self-headed”, but still our Creed and our Liturgy is what bounds us to each of the other Orthodox Churches; which means I can visit an Orthodox Church in Romania and will recite the same creed and enjoy the same Liturgy as I would in Wichita, KS and the same theology. I could then travel to Lebanon and do the same, back to Moscow, then to Greece and never have to worry that I’m in a Church of not like faith.
What you have is a man-made creed, made of fallible men, that you must keep as dumb sheep following a blind shepherd.
Our churches are not so. We are urged to study the Word. Sola scriptura encourages us to do so. If it is based on the Bible, we make sure that what is preached is indeed based on the Bible. There are checks and balances.
Read Acts 17:11
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
I did…hence I left…
You obviously did not do as well as the Bereans did, did you?
 

Agnus_Dei

New Member
DHK said:
Perhaps you are weak in your faith and that is why you celebrate Easter with all of its pagan additions. It is all tradition, most of it pagan. You don't have the backbone to stand up for what is right.
Do I disregard a dictionary because some of the words I dislike? That seems to be your logic here.

InXC
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David Lamb

Well-Known Member
Back on the "Endless Loop"

(This is by no means a perfect illustration, but please bear with me).

American football is a different game to British football. The players abide by different sets of rules. Imagine a discussion involving American players and British footballers. The subject of handling the ball comes up. "Only the goal-keeper may handle the ball; if anyone else handles it, it is a foul!" says a British player. "Not right!" says an American, "Players can handle the ball!" They won't agree, because they are relying on two different authorities.

Is it not at least a similar situation when those like me, who believe that the bible is our sole authority discuss matters with those like "the Latin Lamb" (Agnus), who don't? The arguments will go round and round, but without agreement on the matter of authority, discussions on anything else will inevitibly come down to discussing the same thing - authority. That seems to have happened in this thread.
 
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Matt Black

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yes, indeed, David, an excellent analogy. For instance, it is pretty useless trying to convince me by proof-texting alone (even the Devil tried that trick on Jesus in the Wilderness!) without also adducing evidence as to how the Apostles and their successors have intrepreted that text; similarly, it is fairly non-productive for me to try to persuade someone like your goodself to rely on Tradition when it comes to matters of faith and practice. So we all end up talking past each other if we're not careful.
 

RevJWWhiteJr

New Member
Eternal Sonship

The original post to this thread concerned the question of the eternal sonship of Jesus. I am getting into the tail end of this discusion. I will start from the beginning and comment accordingly, if the subject has not changed too drastically. If that is not acceptable to all involved please inform me so. revjwwhitejr@aol.com
 
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