Eternity and Time

[KenH]

KenH, you are denying Scriptures that say things happen by chance.

The Scriptures do not teach that anything happens by chance.

Tell ya what, Van, you just go on living your life believing that what happens to you is random chance.

I live my life fully confident that God is sovereign over every single atom in His creation and that I can fully, totally trust Him in my life and in everything in this universe.

 

[Van]

The Scriptures do not teach that anything happens by chance.

Tell ya what, Van, you just go on living your life believing that what happens to you is random chance.

I live my life fully confident that God is sovereign over every single atom in His creation and that I can fully, totally trust Him in my life and in everything in this universe.

Did I say everything happens by chance? Nope. But this poster (1) denies scripture and (2) misrepresents the views of others.
Some things, many things are the result of cause. The wages of sin is death. Cause and effect. But to never address any of the scriptures that say things also happen by chance displays a profound ignorance of scripture. Full Stop

 

[KenH]

Did I say everything happens by chance?

If anything happens by chance, then God is not sovereign. You deny that God is always sovereign. To that extent, you are a Deist.

But to never address any of the scriptures that say things also happen by chance displays a profound ignorance of scripture. Full Stop

To never address any of the Scriptures that teach that God is sovereign over all of His Creation displays a profound antipathy toward Biblical teaching and, when robustly expressed in the mind of such a person, reduces the Creator of the universe, in their warped thinking, to basically being like the mythological gods of pagan religions, such as Zeus among the ancient Greeks.

I can sympathize with Van on this subject, as I spent almost all of my life denying God's sovereignty until He regenerated me and granted me the gifts of faith and repentance from dead works.

 

[Van]

I see the old chestnut, what we perceive as happening by chance is really God's providence, has been hoisted yet again. God's word, not human opinion, says things happen by chance. Either we believe those verses are inspired and therefore mean what they say, or we claim God did not mean what He said. Those that try to nullify God's word with the clever stories of people are not to be relied upon. If a spirit says things at odds with scripture, do not rely upon that errant spirit.

 

[Van]

If anything happens by chance, then God is not sovereign. You deny that God is always sovereign. To that extent, you are a Deist.

To never address any of the Scriptures that teach that God is sovereign over all of His Creation displays a profound antipathy toward Biblical teaching and, when robustly expressed in the mind of such a person, reduces the Creator of the universe, in their warped thinking, to basically being like the mythological gods of pagan religions, such as Zeus among the ancient Greeks.

I can sympathize with Van on this subject, as I spent almost all of my life denying God's sovereignty until He regenerated me and granted me the gifts of faith and repentance from dead works.

This poster just continues to say God's word is wrong. He defines God's sovereignty unbiblically.

God is always sovereign, He causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass. KenH denies God is all powerful, unable to allow chance. Fiddlesticks. God's word says He does, and the man-made dogma of ignorance says He does not. Go figure

 

[KenH]

This poster just continues to say God's word is wrong. He defines God's sovereignty unbiblically.

Van continues to say that God's Word is wrong. He defines God's sovereignty unBiblically.

God is always sovereign

We agree on that. Yet, you go on to deny that God is always sovereign.

He causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass

God does not merely "allow" something to happen. That is not what being sovereign means.

KenH denies God is all powerful, unable to allow chance.

Van denies that God is all powerful. He attributes events to random chance. Van denies that God is the Potter and that all of His Creation, including Van, is clay.

God's word says He does, and the man-made dogma of ignorance says He does not.

God's Word teaches that God is always, totally, absolutely sovereign. The man-made dogma of Van, very much similar to Deism, promotes the rebellion of fallen, vile mankind that says that humans are the captain of their own fate.

 

[Van]

KenH continues to say that God's Word is wrong. He defines God's sovereignty unBiblically.

Yet, KenH goes on to deny that God is always sovereign if as God says things happen by chance.

God does "allow" something to happen. That is what being sovereign means.

KenH denies that God is all powerful. He attributes no events to chance. KenH denies that God is the Potter and that all of His Creation, including KenH, is the clay.

God's Word teaches that God is always, totally, absolutely sovereign. The man-made dogma of KenH, very much Calvinistic, promotes the fallen, vile man-made dogma that says that humans have no opportunity to trust in Christ..

Does believing upon Christ automatically mean the person is "captain of their fate?" Nope. See Matthew 7 and those who proclaimed, "Lord, Lord." Or the second and third soils of Matthew 13.

 

[KenH]

KenH continues to say that God's Word is wrong. He defines God's sovereignty unBiblically.

Van continues to say that God's Word is wrong. He defines God's sovereignty unBiblically.

Yet, KenH goes on to deny that God is always sovereign if as He says things happen by chance.

You say that things happen by chance, Van, not me. God's Word teaches that God is always, totally, absolutely sovereign. You deny this Biblical teaching.

God does "allow" something to happen. That is what being sovereign means.

God is always, totally, absolutely sovereign. That is what being sovereign means.

KenH denies that God is all powerful. He attributes no events to chance.

Van denies that God is all powerful. Van attributes events to chance.

KenH denies that God is the Potter and that all of His Creation, including KenH, is the clay.

Van denies that God is the Potter and that all of His creation, including Van, is the clay.

God's Word teaches that God is always, totally, absolutely sovereign.

On this we agree, yet you go on to deny this Biblical teaching.

The man-made dogma of KenH, very much Calvinistic, promotes the fallen, vile mankind, that says that humans have no opportunity to trust in Christ..

The man-made dogma of Van, very much Deistic, promotes the false teaching that man is the captain of his own fate. Van denies that God chose His elect before the world began. Van promotes the false teaching that man can elect himself to salvation, that God has no say in the matter. It is very much like the Pelagianism that I grew up with in the Church of Christ. Van is teaching that by fulfilling some condition, he can obligate God to save him. Van, in essence, teaches that man is sovereign and God is subject to His creation.

Does believing upon Christ automatically mean the person is "captain of their fate?" Nope.

Yet, that is what you teach.

See Matthew 7 and those who proclaimed, "Lord, Lord." Or the second and third soils of Matthew 13.

People such as those were never granted the gifts of saving faith and repentance from dead works.

 

[Van]

KenH continues to say that God's Word is wrong. He defines God's sovereignty unBiblically.

Yet, KenH goes on to deny that God is always sovereign if as God says things happen by chance.

God does "allow" something to happen. That is what being sovereign means.

KenH denies that God is all powerful. He attributes no events to chance. KenH denies that God is the Potter and that all of His Creation, including KenH, is the clay.

God's Word teaches that God is always, totally, absolutely sovereign. The man-made dogma of KenH, very much Calvinistic, promotes the fallen, vile man-made dogma that says that humans have no opportunity to trust in Christ..

Does believing upon Christ automatically mean the person is "captain of their fate?" Nope. See Matthew 7 and those who proclaimed, "Lord, Lord." Or the second and third soils of Matthew 13.

 

[Van]

God's word says things happen by chance. KenH says they do not. Go figure.

 

[Van]

Did I say everything happens by chance? Nope.

But this poster:

(1) denies scripture and
(2) misrepresents the views of others.​

Some things, many things are the result of cause. The wages of sin is death. Cause and effect.

But to never address any of the scriptures that say things also happen by chance displays a profound ignorance of scripture.

Full Stop

 

[KenH]

God's word says things happen by chance. KenH says they do not.

God's Word teaches that nothing happens by chance, that God is always, totally, absolutely sovereign. Van says that things happen by chance; thus, Van denies the Biblical teaching that God is always, totally, absolutely sovereign.

 

[Van]

God's Word teaches that nothing happens by chance, that God is always, totally, absolutely sovereign. Van says that things happen by chance; thus, Van denies the Biblical teaching that God is always, totally, absolutely sovereign.

KenH repeats this false claim, over and over.

 

[Van]

Did I say everything happens by chance? Nope.

But this poster:

(1) denies scripture and
(2) misrepresents the views of others.​

Some things, many things are the result of cause. The wages of sin is death. Cause and effect.

But to never address any of the scriptures that say things also happen by chance displays a profound ignorance of scripture.

Full Stop

 

[Van]

God's word says things happen by chance. KenH says they do not. Go figure.

 

[Van]

KenH continues to say that God's Word is wrong. He defines God's sovereignty unBiblically.

Yet, KenH goes on to deny that God is always sovereign if as God says things happen by chance.

God does "allow" something to happen. That is what being sovereign means.

KenH denies that God is all powerful. He attributes no events to chance. KenH denies that God is the Potter and that all of His Creation, including KenH, is the clay.

God's Word teaches that God is always, totally, absolutely sovereign. The man-made dogma of KenH, very much Calvinistic, promotes the fallen, vile man-made dogma that says that humans have no opportunity to trust in Christ..

Does believing upon Christ automatically mean the person is "captain of their fate?" Nope. See Matthew 7 and those who proclaimed, "Lord, Lord." Or the second and third soils of Matthew 13.

 

[KenH]

Did I say everything happens by chance? Nope.

If you say that ANYTHING happens by chance, then you deny that God is always, totally, absolutely sovereign.

But this poster:
(1) denies scripture and
(2) misrepresents the views of others.

1) On the subject of God's sovereignty, I am not denying God's Word.
2) I have done fine in countering your false teaching. You just don't like that your false teaching has been exposed to the readers of this thread.

Some things, many things are the result of cause.

EVERYTHING is the result of cause, that cause being God who is the Potter over the clay.

But to never address any of the scriptures that say things also happen by chance displays a profound ignorance of scripture.

There is nothing in the Scriptures that teach that things happen by chance. To promote such teaching, that things happen by chance, is to deny that God is sovereign and such false teaching places man on the throne and make him the captain of his own fate.

 

[KenH]

KenH repeats this false claim, over and over.

It is what the Bible teaches,

 

[Van]

I see the old chestnut, what we perceive as happening by chance is really God's providence, has been hoisted yet again. God's word, not human opinion, says things happen by chance. Either we believe those verses are inspired and therefore mean what they say, or we claim God did not mean what He said. Those that try to nullify God's word with the clever stories of people are not to be relied upon. If a spirit says things at odds with scripture, do not rely upon that errant spirit.

 

[Alan Gross]

I can sympathize with Van on this subject, as I spent almost all of my life denying God's sovereignty until He regenerated me and granted me the gifts of faith and repentance from dead works.

Van denies that God is all powerful. He attributes events to random chance. Van denies that God is the Potter and that all of His Creation, including Van, is clay.

God's Word teaches that God is always, totally, absolutely sovereign. The man-made dogma of Van, very much similar to Deism, promotes the rebellion of fallen, vile mankind that says that humans are the captain of their own fate.

It is very much like the Pelagianism that I grew up with in the Church of Christ. Van is teaching that by fulfilling some condition, he can obligate God to save him. Van, in essence, teaches that man is sovereign and God is subject to His creation.

Yet, that is what you teach.

EVERYTHING is the result of cause, that cause being God who is the Potter over the clay.