Eucharistic Divinity

[Cathode]

I will just add, why does spiritually feasting on Christ in Communion not good enough? Why is literal spiritual feasting on Christ not enough but physical spiritual feasting is? Is Jesus not present in Spirit?

Jesus is not just spiritual, He is physical as well.
When we say truly present, we mean Jesus is fully present in His humanity and Divinity.
Truly present in spirit and in Truth.

Jesus flesh and blood gives life to our flesh and blood, unto our resurrection.

“ He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up on the Last Day “

So because of the Eucharist, our bodily Resurrection takes place.

“ So he who eats me will live because of me “


Jesus doesn’t just give Himself to us spiritually but entirely, it is the Covenantal exchange of persons like marriage.
The wedding feast of Christ and His bride the Church.

“ He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me and I in him “

Only Jesus is Life and the ticket to Eternal Life.
Jesus was sacrificed that we may eat of this sacrifice to have Life.

 

[Cathode]

I will just add, why does spiritually feasting on Christ in Communion not good enough?

“ Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you”

By physically eating Jesus flesh and drinking his blood, we are receiving all that resides in that flesh and blood.
Jesus Flesh and Blood is immortal and eternal, by eating it, we become immortal and Eternal.

 

[Cathode]

This banquet of Christ in The Holy Eucharist has been offered for 2000 years. The invitations have been sent out, many have refused His Table because they would not believe.
They do not believe Jesus flesh is real food and blood is real drink as He said.

Believing these words of Jesus is the garment of faith to attend this feast.

It is because of the Immortality of Jesus Flesh and Blood that we receive immortality to our bodies on the last day at our Resurrection to Eternal Life.

We aren’t just spiritual beings, we are physical as well, and the Eucharist resurrects us and gives our physical bodies Eternal Life.

 

[Walter]

One of the hang ups many people on this board would be the thinking that the Eucharist is simply a memorial. It isn't either/or, it is both

'The Eucharist is the same sacrifice that was offered 2,000 years ago inasmuch as it is the same priest and the same victim being offered, but at the same time, it is offered in a different manner—an unbloody manner. Thus, it is truly a memorial of the “once for all” bloody sacrifice of Christ offered in a unique manner 2,000 years ago (Heb. 10:10). As such, the sacrifice of Christ can never and will never be offered in a bloody way again!'

CCC 1367 provides the following:

The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: “The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different.” “And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner . . . this sacrifice is truly propitiatory.

Because the Eucharist is both a memorial of what Christ did 2,000 years ago in a singular way and his true and real presence for his people, CCC 1357-1358

 

[Martin Marprelate]

It’s either the greatest act of idolatry in human history or the Eucharist is Jesus come in the flesh for actual Communion with us.

It is the former. At the Lord's Supper, we are to feed upon Christ in our hearts. The Lord Jesus described Himself as a gate, but that does not mean that He is made of wood and has five bars and a hinge. We are to read the Bible with spiritual eyes. It was the Pharisees and others who took His words so literally as to miss the point completely (John 3:4; 6:52).

 

[Cathode]

One of the hang ups many people on this board has is the thinking that the Eucharist is simply a memorial. It isn't either/or it is both

'The Eucharist is the same sacrifice that was offered 2,000 years ago inasmuch as it is the same priest and the same victim being offered, but at the same time, it is offered in a different manner—an unbloody manner. Thus, it is truly a memorial of the “once for all” bloody sacrifice of Christ offered in a unique manner 2,000 years ago (Heb. 10:10). As such, the sacrifice of Christ can never and will never be offered in a bloody way again!'

CCC 1367 provides the following:


Because the Eucharist is both a memorial of what Christ did 2,000 years ago in a singular way and his true and real presence for his people, CCC 1357-1358

I was given a glimpse of this Unity of the Church at the Holy Eucharist.
All were gathered Past, Present and Future.

Which incidentally is how Israel viewed the Passover, all Jews are gathered at the one Passover throughout time.

 

[Cathode]

It is the former. At the Lord's Supper, we are to feed upon Christ in our hearts. The Lord Jesus described Himself as a gate, but that does not mean that He is made of wood and has five bars and a hinge. We are to read the Bible with spiritual eyes. It was the Pharisees and others who took His words so literally as to miss the point completely (John 3:4; 6:52).

Wrong. Unscriptural. This is not analogous.

Jesus said He was “THE GATE” not “ A gate “.

Not one jot or tittle must be altered in the Word. Bad enough people privately interpret the word to their destruction, but a new level of is reached altering the Word even by jot or tittle to suit their doctrines.

Protestantism is the false jot and tittle alteration of Scripture.

Jesus took bread and declared it to be His Body.

“ This IS my Body “

Every Protestant suddenly transubstantiates into Bill Clinton, not knowing what “ IS “ is.
They translate “ IS “ into isn’t, which is a total departure from the scripture and Christs own direct words.

Where does it say we must “ feed upon Christ in our hearts “.
Human teaching.

Jesus tells us to eat His Flesh and drink His Blood, and that His Flesh is real food and His Blood is real drink.

Not “ symbolic “ food and “ symbolic “ drink as the Bible butchers and alterers have it.

No. You have the words of Christ before you, believe it.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Wrong. Unscriptural. This is not analogous.

Jesus said He was “THE GATE” not “ A gate “.

Not one jot or tittle must be altered in the Word. Bad enough people privately interpret the word to their destruction, but a new level of is reached altering the Word even by jot or tittle to suit their doctrines.

Protestantism is the false jot and tittle alteration of Scripture.

Jesus took bread and declared it to be His Body.

“ This IS my Body “

Every Protestant suddenly transubstantiates into Bill Clinton, not knowing what “ IS “ is.
They translate “ IS “ into isn’t, which is a total departure from the scripture and Christs own direct words.

Where does it say we must “ feed upon Christ in our hearts “.
Human teaching.

Jesus tells us to eat His Flesh and drink His Blood, and that His Flesh is real food and His Blood is real drink.

Not “ symbolic “ food and “ symbolic “ drink as the Bible butchers and alterers have it.

No. You have the words of Christ before you, believe it.

Wrong. Unscriptural. The Lord Jesus did indeed describe Himself as the gate, but it still does not mean that He has bars and hinges. It must be taken spiritually. He is the way by which His sheep come to heaven, and that is the way of grace effected by faith (Eph. 2:8), both of which are the free gifts of God. When our Lord said, "This is My body," His actual body was standing right in front of the apostles. They knew that the bread was bread; they knew the spiritual from the carnal. But from this has come all the wretched priest-craft and hocus pocus that poisoned Christianity for centuries. In Ireland (no doubt elsewhere as well) the priests exercised a malign control of the people for centuries until the awful wickedness of many of them was made known 20 years or so ago. The sad thing is that so many of the Irish have thrown, as it were, the baby out with the bathwater and in their rejection of Rome have turned away from Christ altogether.

 

[Psalty]

This banquet of Christ in The Holy Eucharist has been offered for 2000 years. The invitations have been sent out, many have refused His Table because they would not believe.
They do not believe Jesus flesh is real food and blood is real drink as He said.

Believing these words of Jesus is the garment of faith to attend this feast.

It is because of the Immortality of Jesus Flesh and Blood that we receive immortality to our bodies on the last day at our Resurrection to Eternal Life.

We aren’t just spiritual beings, we are physical as well, and the Eucharist resurrects us and gives our physical bodies Eternal Life.

I appreciate this and will address this, but can you address the scriptural concern I brought up? The RCC must have answered this at some point…

 

[Cathode]

Wrong. Unscriptural. The Lord Jesus did indeed describe Himself as the gate, but it still does not mean that He has bars and hinges. It must be taken spiritually. He is the way by which His sheep come to heaven, and that is the way of grace effected by faith (Eph. 2:8), both of which are the free gifts of God. When our Lord said, "This is My body," His actual body was standing right in front of the apostles. They knew that the bread was bread; they knew the spiritual from the carnal.

You failed to understand the point. Jesus gave Himself over to the power of men Eucharistically and bodily at the Last Supper so that He could lay down His life on the Cross.
Up till the Last Supper Jesus could not be harmed in any way physically.

God placed Himself in the hands of man and instantly He was betrayed.

When Judas ate the bread, Satan entered him. Judas didn’t believe in Jesus flesh was real food and blood was real drink in John 6. And at the Last Supper Judas was the connection to John 6. Ask why Jesus teaching in John 6 should even remotely mention Judas, let alone particularly.

This is why there is a notion that it will be the seeming disciple of Protestantism that doesn’t believe in the flesh and blood Eucharist that will betray the Church.

But from this has come all the wretched priest-craft and hocus pocus that poisoned Christianity for centuries. In Ireland (no doubt elsewhere as well) the priests exercised a malign control of the people for centuries until the awful wickedness of many of them was made known 20 years or so ago. The sad thing is that so many of the Irish have thrown, as it were, the baby out with the bathwater and in their rejection of Rome have turned away from Christ altogether.

Catholic men in Ireland are already standing up in the Faith. The tide is already turning, many saints and martyrs are restoring the ancient Catholic faith.

Protestantism isn’t going to, Protestantism was the start of the rot and great falling away.

 

[Cathode]

I appreciate this and will address this, but can you address the scriptural concern I brought up? The RCC must have answered this at some point…

You are assuming that the “ fruit of the vine “ is the same as what Jesus blessed and gave to the disciples.

Scripture doesn’t tell you Jesus drank the same wine He blessed as His blood and gave to the disciples.

It tells you that He gave it to them to take and drink.

There are 4 cups of wine in the Seder ritual. Wine is drunk throughout the ritual.

 

[Cathode]

Jesus changed the Passover ritual of the Old Covenant to the fulfilment in the New Covenant.The Old Covenant Passover was a prefigurment of the New Covenant ritual and Sacrifice of Jesus.

Note that the Passover meal in the Old Covenant preceded the day of deliverance of Israel.

Jesus made the Eucharistic Sacrifice of Himself the night before thus handing himself over to the power of men to be Sacrificed.

I would be happy to die so that only one bloke sees Jesus in The Eucharist.
There is nothing better than the Eucharist in this whole world.

The Eucharist is Jesus Himelf come to us in the humblest way as He did laid the manger, a feeding trough for sheep.
How stupid, blind and cynical are we not to see the humblest Love.
The world did not recognise the first time, they were completely blind to Him.

Very soon the whole world will recognise Jesus in the Eucharist, even the most ignorant.

We can not thank God enough for the Holy Eucharist.

 

[Cathode]

Catholics give full Latria Adoration to The Holy Eucharist as God.

Adoration belongs to God alone.

We Adore and Worship Jesus in The Holy Eucharist.

The Eucharist is Jesus, God with us.

If you want to see a Catholic in full worship, it will be before The Holy Eucharist.

 

[DaveXR650]

But from this has come all the wretched priest-craft and hocus pocus that poisoned Christianity for centuries.

Yes. And it is completely without basis in scripture. Modern Catholic apologists do a good job of softening the curses of Trent regarding the rest of us but when you really look into it, or just let someone like @Cathode explain it the truth begins to emerge.

The importance of the Lord's Supper is that of commemoration and that we proclaim Christ's death until he comes. The way the Roman Catholic priests do it reminds me of the way Owen described it:
"wherein a proper priest or sacrificer, arrayed with various consecrated attire, standing at the alter, taketh bread and wine, - about which he useth great variety of postures and gestures, inclinations, bowings, kneelings, stretching out and gathering in his arms, with a multitude of crossings, at the end and in the midst of his pronunciation of certain words of Scripture - turns them into the real natural body and blood of Christ the Son of God; worshipping them so converted with religious adoration, showing them to the people for the same purpose; and then offering the body and blood unto God, praying for his acceptance of them so offered, and that it may be available for the living and the dead, for the pardoning of their sins and the saving of their souls: after which he takes that body of Christ, so made, worshipped, and offered, and eats and devours it! By all which Christ is truly and properly sacrificed!"

Owen goes on to point out that scripture is silent on such doings, as is antiquity. That they not only do this, but officially curse those who don't as their official position, must be kept in mind when these discussions come up under "other Christian denominations". You have to keep all this in mind when the shell game starts and this is portrayed as just the way they show this and isn't it beautiful.

 

[Cathode]

“ He who eats my Flesh and drinks my Blood abides in me and I in him “

When we receive Jesus in the Eucharist, we walk Jesus Courts roaming where we will. Experiencing all His joys and sufferings alike.
But He also roams all our Courts bringing His Light to all our embarrassments and shame, and heals all of these.
The very darkest cringiest parts of us are laid bare to Him to heal and shed Light.

It is the most beautiful of things, but very painful for a time.

That is why we say before Communion each day. “ Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the Word and my soul shall be healed “

Jesus in the Eucharist is like the most sweet innocent child roaming the halls of our Soul, healing it.
He doesn’t judge He only wants to Love us and make us happy.

It is impossible to explain, it really is. It has to be experienced to even grasp.

Jesus always finds something He wants to heal and I’m telling you, just let Him do it. Jesus clears all the crap from each dark room He enters. He won’t force it, He will look at you a moment before He conquers a dark room in your soul.
Painful yes, because you relive it, those things you hide even from yourself.
There is nothing Jesus can’t heal.

When things get heavy duty, Jesus will give you a break and fascinate you with His virtues, He is the excellence of all perfection.
Instead of Him going through your soul. you are taken through His Soul and see His perfections without hurting at your own imperfections.

I can’t explain this properly from my experiences.

Only that The Eucharist is Jesus Himself. It is the Lord.

 

[Cathode]

Yes. And it is completely without basis in scripture. Modern Catholic apologists do a good job of softening the curses of Trent regarding the rest of us but when you really look into it, or just let someone like @Cathode explain it the truth begins to emerge.

The importance of the Lord's Supper is that of commemoration and that we proclaim Christ's death until he comes. The way the Roman Catholic priests do it reminds me of the way Owen described it:
"wherein a proper priest or sacrificer, arrayed with various consecrated attire, standing at the alter, taketh bread and wine, - about which he useth great variety of postures and gestures, inclinations, bowings, kneelings, stretching out and gathering in his arms, with a multitude of crossings, at the end and in the midst of his pronunciation of certain words of Scripture - turns them into the real natural body and blood of Christ the Son of God; worshipping them so converted with religious adoration, showing them to the people for the same purpose; and then offering the body and blood unto God, praying for his acceptance of them so offered, and that it may be available for the living and the dead, for the pardoning of their sins and the saving of their souls: after which he takes that body of Christ, so made, worshipped, and offered, and eats and devours it! By all which Christ is truly and properly sacrificed!"

Owen goes on to point out that scripture is silent on such doings, as is antiquity. That they not only do this, but officially curse those who don't as their official position, must be kept in mind when these discussions come up under "other Christian denominations". You have to keep all this in mind when the shell game starts and this is portrayed as just the way they show this and isn't it beautiful.

Dave, I don’t care what you reckon about the Eucharist, I know it is Jesus Hirself, I have seen and experienced it personally.

I hear people talk about a “ Personal relationship “ with Jesus.

There is nothing on this earth that compares to the truly personal relationship with Jesus in the Holy Eucharist.

The Eucharist is Jesus personally with us, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

Would you offer your body to be tortured to death so that I didn’t believe Jesus flesh was real food and blood real drink?
That Jesus words in scripture were wrong.

No Dave, I know that the Eucharist is Jesus, it’s not just something I’ve been told, I’ve experienced it. I am prepared to die for it.

 

[Ascetic X]

Jesus did not say the bread is His body, and the wine is His blood, only when some priest performs a special ritual to transform them. There is also no biblical support for worshiping the communion bread and wine, for saying that in the Eucharist we have Jesus sacrificing Himself again, or for calling the bread and wine Jesus.

 

[DaveXR650]

“ He who eats my Flesh and drinks my Blood abides in me and I in him “

John 6:56. Read the whole chapter, carefully. The whole chapter is about the problem of looking at all this as literal food instead of what Jesus said in verse 29. "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him who He sent". In verse 35 Jesus said "I am the bread of life...." and then goes on in verse 36 to state what the real problem was. "But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe". I don't see how you guys can really read the whole chapter and then turn around and make it all about literal food. In verse 63 Jesus explains that " The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life".

 

[DaveXR650]

Dave, I don’t care what you reckon about the Eucharist, I know it is Jesus Hirself, I have seen and experienced it personally.

I hear people talk about a “ Personal relationship “ with Jesus.

There is nothing on this earth that compares to the truly personal relationship with Jesus in the Holy Eucharist.

The Eucharist is Jesus personally with us, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

Would you offer your body to be tortured to death so that I didn’t believe Jesus flesh was real food and blood real drink?
That Jesus words in scripture were wrong.

No Dave, I know that the Eucharist is Jesus, it’s not just something I’ve been told, I’ve experienced it. I am prepared to die for it.

I'm not against the Lord's Supper being a central part of a Christian meeting. We are to proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. That is very important as a witness that we are not just meeting to go over a set of practices or rules for life or give lessons in ethics. The central theme is that Christ has saved us, by his blood, and the Lord's Supper is the way he prescribed to commemorate this. I think you guys went too far, and the proof of that is the explanations you give of it's propitiatory value and the curses you put on the rest of us for not submitting to your ceremonies.

 

[DaveXR650]

It is impossible to explain, it really is. It has to be experienced to even grasp.

Jesus always finds something He wants to heal and I’m telling you, just let Him do it. Jesus clears all the crap from each dark room He enters. He won’t force it, He will look at you a moment before He conquers a dark room in your soul.
Painful yes, because you relive it, those things you hide even from yourself.
There is nothing Jesus can’t heal.

When things get heavy duty, Jesus will give you a break and fascinate you with His virtues, He is the excellence of all perfection.
Instead of Him going through your soul. you are taken through His Soul and see His perfections without hurting at your own imperfections.

You have obviously never read any Puritan literature, or Horatius Bonar, or even the devotional work of Wesley. It is very erroneous and arrogant to think that you can only have that kind of devotion if you have the Roman Catholic view of the Eucharist. I am not knocking what you have experienced. It serves to support my personal view that many individual Catholics are fellow Christians, even though their theological system officially curses me.