Eucharistic Divinity

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It’s either the greatest act of idolatry in human history or the Eucharist is Jesus come in the flesh for actual Communion with us.

Jesus declared the change, so it is changed.

It’s either the greatest act of idolatry in human history or the Eucharist is Jesus come in the flesh for actual Communion with us.

Jesus declared the change, so it is changed.

Do this in Remembrance of me

If you don't mind, where is that written? I have read it also years ago and cannot remember where I read it.

Regarding the presence of Christ in the bread, when you look at what the Lutherans say, and the Presbyterians and Reformed, and then the Baptists, there are subtle differences in each, which makes sense. That is because the nature of a ceremony requires some level of a conceptual belief - otherwise there could be no ceremony. We are careful to say, "this represents Christ's body" as the bread is handed out but for it to truly represent Christ's body there has to be some concept of that being so. That different individual minds will conceive of that differently I have no problem with.

But there is an obvious level of worship of the bread that most Protestants find disconcerting, and the focus tends to move from Christ to the bread itself, with the explanation that this is fine since the bread really is Christ. We don't think that is fine, and that is the difference. We would be concerned even if the bread was actually Christ - with the object of adoration shifted from Christ to a piece of bread it is still problematic to us. Especially since scripture we use, and tradition at the earliest levels doesn't seem to support any of this. I hope that helps.

at the heart of it, would you be suggesting that by taking communion you are indeed receiving Grace…. Isn’t that one step toward salvation( heaven?)

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Did you see who this was to?

Not the Baptists. And last time I checked Baptist churches were not abstaining from prayer, unless you mean to saints or statues, and they still practiced the Lord's Supper, but properly, which is to proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

I like it when you do this occasionally @Cathode. Your posts always have the same pattern of starting out seemingly conciliatory, maybe with just a small jab at some evangelical excess in passing, but hey, are we not all fellow believers. But if you are opposed, and once the less informed who don't see what you are like sign off, you show your true colors, which are a perfect illustration of the reality of just how far off you guys really are and how no coming together or reconciliation will ever be possible unless you first cancel the Papacy, the priesthood, and your idolatry. So that about sums up the reality. We can work together for common philosophical and political goals, maybe, but we really are far apart.

Unfortunately you have no idea what it’s like to grow up under Roman Catholic teaching… so how in the world could you affiliate with them. From what I can glean, you are a dyed in the wool Puritan … so when anyone attempts a dialog with you regarding their faith beliefs you clam them wrong… that’s not open minded brother. It’s rather, I’m right and you are ridiculous... and nobody gains any ground.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Luke 22:19

 

[DaveXR650]

You have no choice but to condemn Catholics as either the worst Idolaters of all time or the truest Christians of all time.
There is no in between.

Unfortunately you have no idea what it’s like to grow up under Roman Catholic teaching… so how in the world could you affiliate with them. From what I can glean, you are a dyed in the wool Puritan … so when anyone attempts a dialog with you regarding their faith beliefs you clam them wrong… that’s not open minded brother. It’s rather, I’m right and you are ridiculous... and nobody gains any ground.

Above is what @Cathode said to me when I tried to have a dialog with him on this. After that I tried to disagree with him and soften it to just the fact that he is in error and that there is indeed an "in between". But he wants it that way. And then you come on, out of the blue, having not been involved in any of the discussion, with this. So let me ask you this. Did you even read the earlier posts or do you just blast away. It would seem to me that @Cathode's quote above is maybe not open minded either.

Since you don't have any idea what you are, I would suggest you at least read what people are saying and then decide on something rather than trolling.

 

[DaveXR650]

at the heart of it, would you be suggesting that by taking communion you are indeed receiving Grace…. Isn’t that one step toward salvation( heaven?)

Yes. If you mean that by faith you are in your mind believing that Christ is the source and cause of your salvation and the cup and bread show this and help make it real in your mind then yes. But if you, as the central theme and purpose of communion, have in view that there is a physical change in the cup and bread and that the actual eating and drinking of this, or observing of this being done somehow has a part in your salvation then absolutely not.

 

[Cathode]

Do this in Remembrance of me

at the heart of it, would you be suggesting that by taking communion you are indeed receiving Grace…. Isn’t that one step toward salvation( heaven?)

Yes mate.

“For the blood of the grape–that is, the Word–desired to be mixed with water, as His blood is mingled with salvation. And the blood of the Lord is twofold. For there is the blood of His flesh, by which we are redeemed from corruption; and the spiritual, that by which we are anointed. And to drink the blood of Jesus, is to become partaker of the Lord’s immortality; the Spirit being the energetic principle of the Word, as blood is of flesh. Accordingly, as wine is blended with water, so is the Spirit with man. And the one, the mixture of wine and water, nourishes to faith; while the other, the Spirit, conducts to immortality. And the mixture of both–of the water and of the Word–is called Eucharist, renowned and glorious grace; and they who by faith partake of it are sanctified both in body and soul.” Clement of Alexandria, The Instructor, 2 (ante A.D. 202).

The Eucharist is the renown and Glorious Grace.
We are partakers of the Lord’s immortality in the Eucharist.
This is how God so ordered it.

 

[Cathode]

Yes. If you mean that by faith you are in your mind believing that Christ is the source and cause of your salvation and the cup and bread show this and help make it real in your mind then yes. But if you, as the central theme and purpose of communion, have in view that there is a physical change in the cup and bread and that the actual eating and drinking of this, or observing of this being done somehow has a part in your salvation then absolutely not.

What I have been trying to get across is the incredible reality of Jesus in the Eucharist.
By scripture, the Fathers and personal experience.
I know the Eucharist is Jesus, it’s not a joke, Jesus flesh really is real food and His blood really is real drink.
Jesus was telling the truth.

Jesus flesh and blood has the potency of Eternal Life and resurrection.

“ He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has Eternal Life and I will raise up on the Last day “

The Eucharist imparts massive Grace, we partake of Jesus immortality by the Eucharist, and the resurrection of our bodies.

Jesus was right.

“ So he who eats me, will live because of me “

Jesus was telling the truth this whole time.

 

[Charlie24]

I should read Catholic history with a Catholic lense.
Their understanding of the Eucharist and mine are the same.
It is the flesh and blood of Christ.
The Mass today is modeled the same as Justin’s, that is where our model came from.

Baptism to Justin was water baptism, this was regeneration to him.

Catholic belief not Baptist.

I agree it's certainly not Baptist.

The regeneration you speak of comes from the believing from the heart not water baptism.

"for with the heart man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made into salvation."

I see nothing about water baptism regeneration.

 

[Cathode]

Above is what @Cathode said to me when I tried to have a dialog with him on this. After that I tried to disagree with him and soften it to just the fact that he is in error and that there is indeed an "in between". But he wants it that way. And then you come on, out of the blue, having not been involved in any of the discussion, with this. So let me ask you this. Did you even read the earlier posts or do you just blast away. It would seem to me that @Cathode's quote above is maybe not open minded either.

Since you don't have any idea what you are, I would suggest you at least read what people are saying and then decide on something rather than trolling.

Dave, if I thought someone was worshipping bread, I would do everything I could to turn them from what is blatant and obvious, and horrific idolatry.

What nuance is there Dave if you think the Eucharist is just bread.
‘ Well, their worship is a little “misplaced”

Misplaced??

It’s dead wrong and yes evil to be worshipping the Eucharist if it is just bread.

One of us totally wrong on this, and not just a little bit wrong.

Either our worship of the Eucharist is utterly damnable idolatry, or we worship Christ in spirit and in truth.

 

[Cathode]

I agree it's certainly not Baptist.

The regeneration you speak of comes from the believing from the heart not water baptism.

"for with the heart man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made into salvation."

I see nothing about water baptism regeneration.

Where is the water?

“ Born again of water and spirit “

All the Fathers believed water baptism was regeneration.
It was universal Christian belief for the first 1500 years until strange rebellious men started preaching their new human gospels.
It is however is still the majority belief of Christians today.

 

[Charlie24]

Where is the water?

“ Born again of water and spirit “

All the Fathers believed water baptism was regeneration.
It was universal Christian belief for the first 1500 years until strange rebellious men started preaching their new human gospels.
It is however is still the majority belief of Christians today.

I don't really care what the Catholic fathers believed.

But my first post was just picking with you, seeing we have had several conversations and can never agree.

Just being a good Baptist, lol.

 

[Cathode]

I agree it's certainly not Baptist.

The regeneration you speak of comes from the believing from the heart not water baptism.

"for with the heart man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made into salvation."

I see nothing about water baptism regeneration.

Profession of faith is part of baptism yes.

“But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching, bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, in order that we may offer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized [illuminated] person, and for all others in every place, that we may be counted worthy,” Justin Martyr 155 Ad.

 

[Charlie24]

Profession of faith is part of baptism yes.

“But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching, bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, in order that we may offer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized [illuminated] person, and for all others in every place, that we may be counted worthy,” Justin Martyr 155 Ad.

Well, Justin has some problems understanding works, being that he was depending on a man to perform a ceremony for him to be saved.

 

[Cathode]

I don't really care what the Catholic fathers believed.

But my first post was just picking with you, seeing we have had several conversations and can never agree.

Just being a good Baptist, lol.

Yes, you are your own Pope Charlie, only you decide interpretation of scripture.

It doesn’t matter what all the universal Church believed in antiquity, you a right and they all wrong?

 

[Charlie24]

Well, Justin has some problems understanding works, being that he was depending on a man to perform a ceremony for him to be saved.

Cathode, we good 'ol Baptist folks believe water baptism is a confession of what took place in the heart when we believed, the regeneration had already taken place when we were water baptized.

 

[Charlie24]

Yes, you are your own Pope Charlie, only you decide interpretation of scripture.

It doesn’t matter what all the universal Church believed in antiquity, you a right and they all wrong?

Pope Charlie likes his interpretation just fine.

 

[Cathode]

Well, Justin has some problems understanding works, being that he was depending on a man to perform a ceremony for him to be saved.

No, from memory you have problems understanding works, and faith.

We talked about this.

 

[Charlie24]

No, from memory you have problems understanding works, and faith.

We talked about this.

Well, please, let's don't talk about it again.

We know the outcome, lol.

I wouldn't pick on you if I didn't like you, Cathode.

Despite our differences.

 

[Cathode]

Cathode, we good 'ol Baptist folks believe water baptism is a confession of what took place in the heart when we believed, the regeneration had already taken place when we were water baptized.

“ Water and Spirit “ regeneration.

Not waterless regeneration, no.

 

[Charlie24]

“ Water and Spirit “ regeneration.

Not waterless regeneration, no.

Yea, I know, a salvation of works.

The RCC is renowned for it.