EV Background Information

[Van]

Our currant Battery Electric Vehicles for private use, like a Mode 3 Tesla or a Ford Lightning, have a range around 250 to 350 miles. These vehicles get about 3 to 4 miles per kilowatt-hr of energy usage. Thus the usual battery size runs from around 60 KWhs to about 100 KWhs.

Now to recharge these batteries, there are several "levels" of charging systems available. At our houses, we have outlets with 120 volts, rated for about 20 amps. As high school physics students know, volts times amps equals watts, so our home circuit could charge at a rate of 2.4 Kws, and so if operated for one hour, would replenish about 2.4 KWhs of available energy.

Such a system will work well to replenish our daily "about town" driving using about 10 KWhs of energy. Our homes also use about 10 KWhs of energy each day (monthy total aound 300 KWhs). Therefore, if we install a solar power system rated for say 5 KW, we could generate enough power most days to power our home and car.

Lets say a solar power system delivers about 6 hours worth of full capacity on average each day, or about 30 KWhs, leaving a surplus many days to off-set utility system usage during winter or cloudy days.

Bottom line, our transition to BEV's should be possible over a 10 to 15 year period, provided solar power installations remain competitive.

 

[Van]

I see I goofed again. Since my home electrical usage is in line with my neighbors, and runs about 300 kwhs monthly, I thought that level was average. However, when looking a various sites, I see a much higher (600 to 1000) level claimed. See Average Household Electricity Consumption - 2023 - Shrink That Footprint

My home heating, water heating and clothes dryer are by natural gas.

If we adjust the daily usage from my perhaps bogus 10 kwh per day to 25 kwhs per day, then a 6 KW rated solar system might be needed.

 

[Alex2165]

I see I goofed again. Since my home electrical usage is in line with my neighbors, and runs about 300 kwhs monthly, I thought that level was average. However, when looking a various sites, I see a much higher (600 to 1000) level claimed. See Average Household Electricity Consumption - 2023 - Shrink That Footprint

My home heating, water heating and clothes dryer are by natural gas.

If we adjust the daily usage from my perhaps bogus 10 kwh per day to 25 kwhs per day, then a 6 KW rated solar system might be needed.

I would like to look at this from another point of view.

I read many things about electric cars on the internet, and I came to conclusion that downsides of EV's exceed its benefits.

Yes, may be EV can save money on very expensive fuel and perhaps on constant repairs of conventional car, and supposed to be more reliable, but production of EV and its buttery consume no less energy and resources than conventional gasoline car, it much more.

I read and heard from number of people that buttery on average last about 5 years. It cost around 20K, and it weight more than a car itself.

And here another issue, how used batteries are disposed?

Can we recycle them, or the battery must be thrown like trash on the field?

Of course, it very convenient to charge car at home and have mileage 200-300 miles per day on full charge, but from financial and environmental point of view it does not seems very beneficial or even practical.

 

[Van]

I would like to look at this from another point of view.

I read many things about electric cars on the internet, and I came to conclusion that downsides of EV's exceed its benefits.

Yes, may be EV can save money on very expensive fuel and perhaps on constant repairs of conventional car, and supposed to be more reliable, but production of EV and its buttery consume no less energy and resources than conventional gasoline car, it much more.

I read and heard from number of people that buttery on average last about 5 years. It cost around 20K, and it weight more than a car itself.

And here another issue, how used batteries are disposed?

Can we recycle them, or the battery must be thrown like trash on the field?

Of course, it very convenient to charge car at home and have mileage 200-300 miles per day on full charge, but from financial and environmental point of view it does not seems very beneficial or even practical.

Hi Alex, you have expressed "another point of view" which seem based on fear mongering rather than facts.

Does the "downside" of driving EV's exceed it benefits? No.

What are the actual down side factors?

1) Production consumes more energy? Seems a bit of a subjective claim, as energy production costs are not easy to document.
2) Production consumes more resources? Many fossil fuel SUV's weigh more than a Model 3 so this claim seems dubious.
3) Battery life lasts "5 years?" Not true as a LFP battery powered Model 3 will probably last 20 or more years.
4) Yes, as of now, BEV's do cost more than fossil fueled cars, but the price break is closer to $10,000.
5) The weight of the battery is not more than the car. A typical sedan will weight about 3600 lbs and a EV sedan will weight about the same.
6) Yes, EV battery recycling is in its infancy, but the process is known and seems too costly a present. This will change.
7) From an environmental point of view, EV produce less air pollution since they can be recharged from residential solar power.

 

[Van]

As far as BEV weight, the Ford Mustang Mach E (their BEV) weighs a little more than a Ford Escape or Ford Edge, about the same as a Ford Bronco or Ford Explorer, and definitely less than a Ford Expedition.

 

[Van]

How long should a Tesla vehicle battery last?

On average, Tesla owners can expect at least 267 miles of range on a single charge of their car's battery. According to Tesla CEO Elon Musk, your Tesla batteries are supposed to last for 300,000 to 500,000 miles, or 1,500 battery cycles. That's around 22 to 37 years for an average person. (How Long Does a Tesla Battery Last?)​

 

[OnlyaSinner]

I have 2 concerns about EVs, one general and important, the other personal and of little import.
The general concern is whether the grid can keep up with the increasing demand - Texas isn't the only place where things are shaky though they're probably the worst.
The personal concern is because I live in a northern border state with cold and snowy winters. It has yet to get below zero this winter but the median for winter's coldest morning is -25F. From November thru April the range will be significantly reduced. Also, the grandkids live 520 miles away, though scouting out locations of superfast charging stations could solve that problem.

 

[Alex2165]

To Van

It seems to me that you are big enthusiast of your electric vehicle.

And it seems that all the information you provided is not much your personal experience, but from different sources, and of course "According to Tesla CEO Elon Musk..."

According to our news and politician nothing wrong happening in the country with our economy and prices and we live in "paradise."

According to billboards I see on the roads, commercials on TV, and according to "doctors," vaccine makes us "immune" from Covid.

According to different statistics air bags "save" life, but how many people actually killed by airbags, no true statistic available.

I also agree with "onlyasinne" that infrastructure is not available yet for EV and charging station far and between and in some states only few.

Concerning electric grid, it is very weak and could not support additional load of EV. In order to support numerous EV more coal must be burned, because many charging stations using conventional electric grid and not solar or wind power which account for very small percentage of total US electric output.

I will keep my gasoline burning polluting vehicle until last drop of oil extracted from the ground and then jump on my bicycle.

 

[Van]

To Van

It seems to me that you are big enthusiast of your electric vehicle.

And it seems that all the information you provided is not much your personal experience, but from different sources, and of course "According to Tesla CEO Elon Musk..."

According to our news and politician nothing wrong happening in the country with our economy and prices and we live in "paradise."

According to billboards I see on the roads, commercials on TV, and according to "doctors," vaccine makes us "immune" from Covid.

According to different statistics air bags "save" life, but how many people actually killed by airbags, no true statistic available.

I also agree with "onlyasinne" that infrastructure is not available yet for EV and charging station far and between and in some states only few.

Concerning electric grid, it is very weak and could not support additional load of EV. In order to support numerous EV more coal must be burned, because many charging stations using conventional electric grid and not solar or wind power which account for very small percentage of total US electric output.

I will keep my gasoline burning polluting vehicle until last drop of oil extracted from the ground and then jump on my bicycle.

Yes, I own a Toyota Hybrid that gets 40 plus MPG. But God willing, my next car will be a BEV.

Yes, the information I post I have gleamed from my information sources like education, experience and study.

Yes, a lot of disinformation is out there, possibly some of mine but also some of yours.

As I pointed out the electrical grid can support the transition to BEV's over time. To say we are not ready right now is not the issue.

Yes, the USA does not have a "robust" electrical grid. And "NIMBY" advocates have been preventing building one for years. However, switching to BEV's might result in the political will to build a strong and ample supply system.

 

[Van]

I have 2 concerns about EVs, one general and important, the other personal and of little import.
The general concern is whether the grid can keep up with the increasing demand - Texas isn't the only place where things are shaky though they're probably the worst.
The personal concern is because I live in a northern border state with cold and snowy winters. It has yet to get below zero this winter but the median for winter's coldest morning is -25F. From November thru April the range will be significantly reduced. Also, the grandkids live 520 miles away, though scouting out locations of superfast charging stations could solve that problem.

I agree, BEV do not work as well in cold weather, and their range is typically less than 350 miles. But as the transition to BEV's continues, you may be able to talk to neighbors who drive them and learn from their experience with BEV's in very cold weather. As far as range, yes, we do not have sufficient number of fast charging stations available to mean a lunch stop/recharge a reality but I think that day is coming.

 

[OnlyaSinner]

I've had Rangers (and one Mazda) 2WD 2.3L pickups since 1994 - consistently the highest mpg among pickups and I like the smaller truck that can still haul 1/4 cord of firewood. If my current 2011 Ranger needs to be replaced, I hope to find a reasonably affordable used Ford Maverick hybrid. At 76, I doubt I'll still be driving when the grid/range/fast-starters catch up with the increasing fleets of BEVs.

 

[Van]

I've had Rangers (and one Mazda) 2WD 2.3L pickups since 1994 - consistently the highest mpg among pickups and I like the smaller truck that can still haul 1/4 cord of firewood. If my current 2011 Ranger needs to be replaced, I hope to find a reasonably affordable used Ford Maverick hybrid. At 76, I doubt I'll still be driving when the grid/range/fast-starters catch up with the increasing fleets of BEVs.

I am right there with you, as I am pushing 80.

 

[Alex2165]

Currently, the only benefit I see in EV today is to have plenty of time (a couple hours or more) to read the Bible while vehicle recharging at the station.

 

[Van]

Currently, the only benefit I see in EV today is to have plenty of time (a couple hours or more) to read the Bible while vehicle recharging at the station.

What are the benefits to owning a BEV as opposed to a vehicle powered from fossil fuel.

1) Lower operating cost. At 20 cents or so per KW, and 3.5 MPKWh, it would cost about $2.00 to go as far (35 miles) as a gallon of gas at 3 or 4 dollars per gallon.

2) Lower maintenance cost. Brakes last longer due to regenerative braking reducing wear and tear. No Radiator or coolant leakage issues. No oil changes. No spark plugs or distributor or plug wiring.

3) Back-up power (Vehicle to home) in the event of a power outage.

4) No concern over Carbon Monoxide emission, or NOX or what have you.

 

[Alex2165]

What are the benefits to owning a BEV as opposed to a vehicle powered from fossil fuel.

1) Lower operating cost. At 20 cents or so per KW, and 3.5 MPKWh, it would cost about $2.00 to go as far (35 miles) as a gallon of gas at 3 or 4 dollars per gallon.

2) Lower maintenance cost. Brakes last longer due to regenerative braking reducing wear and tear. No Radiator or coolant leakage issues. No oil changes. No spark plugs or distributor or plug wiring.

3) Back-up power (Vehicle to home) in the event of a power outage.

4) No concern over Carbon Monoxide emission, or NOX or what have you.

In order to have a balanced judgment concerning any issue it is good practice to weight all sides, positive and negative, for and against, and only then make some conclusions.

I watched a while ago documentary about guy who tested his EV on the road, on a long trip.

Many issues came up, good and bad, and one of them was kind interesting.

While driving he calculated how many miles, he has to reach next charging station and how much charge left, and when he stop to recharge car at a station, the plug of the station wasn't fitting to his charging receptacle.

The problem was that each company who produces charging station and EV manufacturers have their own design of electric charging plug.

So, he carried three or four different adapters in order to fit his charging connector to the charging plug of the station.

Also, the stations have different rate of charging and even payment option are different from station to station.

So after watching this documentary on You Tube which is also covered many other issues and problems with EV, I came to conclusion that EV is not quite ready for cross country ride, but in the city as a delivery vehicle or short runs to work it may be very useful, practical, and efficient.

But again, the cost of saving on fuel and saving on maintenance is very minimal and do not come closer as benefit to expensive price of EV.

 

[Van]

...the cost of saving on fuel and saving on maintenance is very minimal and do not come closer as benefit to expensive price of EV.

I think the idea of the above sentence is that the savings from the lower operating and maintenance costs of a BEV do not fully offset the additional initial cost of purchase of a BEV.

What if we compare the cost of owning a lemon fossil fuel vehicle against the cost of a BEV that operates trouble free for 300,000 miles?

But seriously, if a person drives an average yearly distance of 15,000 miles in a 25 MPG average vehicle, the fuel cost savings for a BEV would be around $1000 per year, or $10,000 over ten years. So if the BEV only cost about $10,000 more than a comparable fossil fuel vehicle, then the benefit would offset the cost. But we do not know whether the gas/electric price differential will remain the same, increase or decrease. The lower maintenance cost is also difficult to quantify, but my guess would be about $500 less per year for a BEV.

Bottom line, a BEV may well be cheaper to buy and operate over time than a fossil fuel vehicle.

 

[Cathode]

Our currant Battery Electric Vehicles for private use, like a Mode 3 Tesla or a Ford Lightning, have a range around 250 to 350 miles. These vehicles get about 3 to 4 miles per kilowatt-hr of energy usage. Thus the usual battery size runs from around 60 KWhs to about 100 KWhs.

Now to recharge these batteries, there are several "levels" of charging systems available. At our houses, we have outlets with 120 volts, rated for about 20 amps. As high school physics students know, volts times amps equals watts, so our home circuit could charge at a rate of 2.4 Kws, and so if operated for one hour, would replenish about 2.4 KWhs of available energy.

Such a system will work well to replenish our daily "about town" driving using about 10 KWhs of energy. Our homes also use about 10 KWhs of energy each day (monthy total aound 300 KWhs). Therefore, if we install a solar power system rated for say 5 KW, we could generate enough power most days to power our home and car.

Lets say a solar power system delivers about 6 hours worth of full capacity on average each day, or about 30 KWhs, leaving a surplus many days to off-set utility system usage during winter or cloudy days.

Bottom line, our transition to BEV's should be possible over a 10 to 15 year period, provided solar power installations remain competitive.

EVs will be the cause of the greatest ecological disaster mankind has ever faced, look at how the minerals are extracted and processed.
Don’t buy EVs, they are a gimmick, ineffective and horrendously destructive.

 

[Van]

EVs will be the cause of the greatest ecological disaster mankind has ever faced, look at how the minerals are extracted and processed.
Don’t buy EVs, they are a gimmick, ineffective and horrendously destructive.

Baseless nonsense can be posted, but should not be credited with relevance.
The smog of the LA basin in the 1950's was an ecological disaster.

 

[Van]

One problem with BEV's is you cannot pull into a gas station and clean your windshield with their squeegee. Of course, you could go into the mini-mart and buy a soda.