What would you do if you joined the Evangelical Free (EFCA) with your family and your children all get married to people in the EFCA and your child's new mother-in-law wants your grandchild to be infant baptized by an EFCA pastor who believes in infant baptism? How do you deal with that as a Baptist believing in believers immersion baptism?
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Evangelical Free
- Thread starter CF1
- Start date
They might do what we did: my husband had a Methodist mother in law, I had a Catholic one, and of course they thought the kids should be baptized as infants in their respective churches. We moved quite a bit and didn't always have a Baptist church to attend, so we encountered pastor's who wanted to baptize those babies.
But, since WE were the parents, and that wasn't our belief, the kids were not baptized til after they were saved.
No biggie.
But, since WE were the parents, and that wasn't our belief, the kids were not baptized til after they were saved.
No biggie.
And what difference would it make either way if baptism is not necessary in order to be saved?
If the child grew up believing that infant baptism was salvic (many do, and otherwise why do it?), then the child would not belive in Christ's work alone for salvation. It's the same conflict found in all infant baptism.
The Ev. Free church says this potential confusion is a "minor" issue.
If I believe "a random stone on the ground" saves me, or partially saves me, or helps me get into heaven, is that a saving faith? Shouldn't I be tought clearly that such a belief is not saving faith?
Why keep this in "silence" and call it a "minor" issue? Why not teach against error? Why stay in silence?
Salvation is about where you will spend eternity. If that isn't major, what is?
Sorry if this offends anyone but doesn't God expect us to speak the truth in love, not falsehood in love, or "silence" that leaves the door open for falsehood in love?
It seems like the Ev. Free church wants to love people and avoid the painful confrontation for those entrenched in infant baptism. But is that true love to leave people in potential confusion about potentially erroneous parts of beliefs on salvation?
The Ev. Free church says this potential confusion is a "minor" issue.
If I believe "a random stone on the ground" saves me, or partially saves me, or helps me get into heaven, is that a saving faith? Shouldn't I be tought clearly that such a belief is not saving faith?
Why keep this in "silence" and call it a "minor" issue? Why not teach against error? Why stay in silence?
Salvation is about where you will spend eternity. If that isn't major, what is?
Sorry if this offends anyone but doesn't God expect us to speak the truth in love, not falsehood in love, or "silence" that leaves the door open for falsehood in love?
It seems like the Ev. Free church wants to love people and avoid the painful confrontation for those entrenched in infant baptism. But is that true love to leave people in potential confusion about potentially erroneous parts of beliefs on salvation?
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thomas15
Well-Known Member
CF1,
Like Baptist, EFCA local churches are independent, so it may be possible to find an EFCA pastor to baptise infants, it may also be possible to find a Baptist pastor to do the same. I guess it really comes down to the local church. If you are SBC and move to a place where there is no SBC, then what do you do? I imagine you would look for another Baptist church to fellowship with. Failing that, you spread out into new uncharted lands and that may be an EFCA.
This is sort of my situation. I was GARBC for 15 years then moved to another state. I could join a IFB which is literally in my backyard. The difference between my GARBC church and this IFB is much greater than my GARBC and either of the two EFCA churches in my area. While EFCA is "baptistic" it isn't a baptist church. When I mention to long time members and others associated with the EFCA that they are "almost baptist", they seem surprised.
For me, the only other option as far as Baptist is ABC-USA and believe it or not, this particulat local church is less baptist (as I understand historic baptist beliefs) than the EFCA churches in our area. So all this creates a great quandry. Do I reject a local fellowship because there is a possiblity, however remote, that another pastor within the fellowship may baptise infants? Are praise bands unbbiblical or just a matter of taste? Is the Lord glorified by a tie and jacket and a KJV bible or can true worship be accomplished in khaki and an NIV? Kindly excuse me if I'm taking this discussion too far off track.
Yes, the EFCA as I know it in my personal experience is not as "stringent" as my GARBC church. For years I attended a CBA Baptist church. They had praise bands and there were some that didn't wear ties either. But they had Baptist in their name. As I reflect on it as I write, the CBA experience I had is very simular to the EFCA that I know as far as doctrine and practice. I can say this, my EFCA knowledge allows me to state that they are sold Bible, solid Gospel.
Like Baptist, EFCA local churches are independent, so it may be possible to find an EFCA pastor to baptise infants, it may also be possible to find a Baptist pastor to do the same. I guess it really comes down to the local church. If you are SBC and move to a place where there is no SBC, then what do you do? I imagine you would look for another Baptist church to fellowship with. Failing that, you spread out into new uncharted lands and that may be an EFCA.
This is sort of my situation. I was GARBC for 15 years then moved to another state. I could join a IFB which is literally in my backyard. The difference between my GARBC church and this IFB is much greater than my GARBC and either of the two EFCA churches in my area. While EFCA is "baptistic" it isn't a baptist church. When I mention to long time members and others associated with the EFCA that they are "almost baptist", they seem surprised.
For me, the only other option as far as Baptist is ABC-USA and believe it or not, this particulat local church is less baptist (as I understand historic baptist beliefs) than the EFCA churches in our area. So all this creates a great quandry. Do I reject a local fellowship because there is a possiblity, however remote, that another pastor within the fellowship may baptise infants? Are praise bands unbbiblical or just a matter of taste? Is the Lord glorified by a tie and jacket and a KJV bible or can true worship be accomplished in khaki and an NIV? Kindly excuse me if I'm taking this discussion too far off track.
Yes, the EFCA as I know it in my personal experience is not as "stringent" as my GARBC church. For years I attended a CBA Baptist church. They had praise bands and there were some that didn't wear ties either. But they had Baptist in their name. As I reflect on it as I write, the CBA experience I had is very simular to the EFCA that I know as far as doctrine and practice. I can say this, my EFCA knowledge allows me to state that they are sold Bible, solid Gospel.
This could be because their primary experience with a Baptist Church is the IFB church down the street. Finding a new church home in a new city takes time and patience, and a lot of prayer. However, I don't see this as a great quandry, as you state that the EFC church is "solid Bible, solid Gospel." You may wish to speak to one of the pastors regarding your questions and concerns. That should put you at rest either way. Godspeed in your decision.
It seems that the majority of people in the EFCA do not know about the EFCA's position of "silence" on false doctrines of baptism (found in the book "The Significance of Silence" by Arnold T. Olson) because it is never preached or tought in the church. Rather the principle is practiced in silence very carefully by those who do know about it.
All who are ordained in the EFCA are required to read the book "The Significance of Silence" by Arnold T. Olson. But because the book calls for silence, not much more is said about it beyond the small minority who know about it.
Some of those who do know about it are former Lutherans and even some Catholics, who have been told that if they want to switch churches, the EFCA will be more accepting of their current beliefs. And indeed they are.
As liberal agendas are invading Lutheran and other large church denominations, there are refugees leaving those denominations seeking a new home that is more Biblical. The EFCA is a logical choice for a Lutheran who believes infant baptism is salvic, may be salvic, or is at least a good insurance policy, or is keeping peace with the family.
Newcomers to the EFCA who came from the Lutheran church have to decide if they should go against family tradition and refuse to have their infants sprinkled.
I know people who are members of a Lutheran church who attend an EFCA church. They refuse to give up membership in the Lutheran church because they still hold beliefs from that church and/or because it would upset the family traditions to give up membership in the Lutheran church. But they attend regulary in the EFCA church. Some seek infant baptism for their infants. The large majority do not.
The EFCA serves as a bridge from Lutheranism to Baptistic beliefs, for those not ready to make the leap instantly into a Baptist church.
Worship styles do not impact salvation. However faith does impact salvation. So the question is not regarding issues that are not salvic like Worship styles. The question is on issues that are salvic, and about speaking out with clarity on man-made ideas that are not salvic. The EFCA stays silent on what is wrong, false doctrine. They only teach what is right and hope that will be good enough.
Thus they avoid the conflict and do so out of love and for the sake of unity. However, some times they may leave an unsaved person unsaved, and lost. That lost person may feel betrayed some day.
So if a Baptistic believer joins the EFCA and their children fall in love with and marry the children of former Lutheran's who are still clinging to infant baptism, then the conflict might appear in the open. At that point it might be too late for a Baptist parent to influence their child who is totally in love with person whose family holds to an infant sprinkling belief.
Of course the act of sprinkling does not condem anyone to hell. A false faith and belief in false doctrine that any man-made act is salvic and trusting, resting, relying in that man-made act, could polute true salvic faith and make it non-salvic at some point.
The risk is probably remote but ever present, that a Baptist person attending and EFCA might end up seeing their grandchildren sprinkled in the EFCA church. How do other Baptists feel about this concern?
My faith has found a resting place,
Not in device nor creed;
I trust the Ever-living One,
His wounds for me shall plead.
I need no other argument,
I need no other plea;
It is enough that Jesus died,
And that He died for me.
My heart is leaning on the Word,
The written Word of God,
Salvation by my Savior's name,
Salvation through His blood.
All who are ordained in the EFCA are required to read the book "The Significance of Silence" by Arnold T. Olson. But because the book calls for silence, not much more is said about it beyond the small minority who know about it.
Some of those who do know about it are former Lutherans and even some Catholics, who have been told that if they want to switch churches, the EFCA will be more accepting of their current beliefs. And indeed they are.
As liberal agendas are invading Lutheran and other large church denominations, there are refugees leaving those denominations seeking a new home that is more Biblical. The EFCA is a logical choice for a Lutheran who believes infant baptism is salvic, may be salvic, or is at least a good insurance policy, or is keeping peace with the family.
Newcomers to the EFCA who came from the Lutheran church have to decide if they should go against family tradition and refuse to have their infants sprinkled.
I know people who are members of a Lutheran church who attend an EFCA church. They refuse to give up membership in the Lutheran church because they still hold beliefs from that church and/or because it would upset the family traditions to give up membership in the Lutheran church. But they attend regulary in the EFCA church. Some seek infant baptism for their infants. The large majority do not.
The EFCA serves as a bridge from Lutheranism to Baptistic beliefs, for those not ready to make the leap instantly into a Baptist church.
Worship styles do not impact salvation. However faith does impact salvation. So the question is not regarding issues that are not salvic like Worship styles. The question is on issues that are salvic, and about speaking out with clarity on man-made ideas that are not salvic. The EFCA stays silent on what is wrong, false doctrine. They only teach what is right and hope that will be good enough.
Thus they avoid the conflict and do so out of love and for the sake of unity. However, some times they may leave an unsaved person unsaved, and lost. That lost person may feel betrayed some day.
So if a Baptistic believer joins the EFCA and their children fall in love with and marry the children of former Lutheran's who are still clinging to infant baptism, then the conflict might appear in the open. At that point it might be too late for a Baptist parent to influence their child who is totally in love with person whose family holds to an infant sprinkling belief.
Of course the act of sprinkling does not condem anyone to hell. A false faith and belief in false doctrine that any man-made act is salvic and trusting, resting, relying in that man-made act, could polute true salvic faith and make it non-salvic at some point.
The risk is probably remote but ever present, that a Baptist person attending and EFCA might end up seeing their grandchildren sprinkled in the EFCA church. How do other Baptists feel about this concern?
My faith has found a resting place,
Not in device nor creed;
I trust the Ever-living One,
His wounds for me shall plead.
I need no other argument,
I need no other plea;
It is enough that Jesus died,
And that He died for me.
My heart is leaning on the Word,
The written Word of God,
Salvation by my Savior's name,
Salvation through His blood.
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