Evangelical Leader Accused

Amen!

:thumbs:

 

Not really. Because something hurts me more does not make it more of a sin.

How is that convenient? How does that compare with your saying that the sins which tempt you, the one you might commit, are less bad than the ones that don't tempt you? Unless I misunderstood you, you're letting yourself off easy.

And, for the third time, why do you consider homosexuality more of a sin than thieving or blasphemy?

 

Daisy,

First:

I have lost track of how many times I have tried to explain this to you in so many threads.

The leadership of God's people is a sacred trust. Certain sins devastate that sacred trust more than others.

At the top of the list are adultery, child molestation, and homosexuality. These sins among leaders of God's people do extreme harm to His flock and must (I do mean MUST) be avoided at all costs.

I have interviewed survivors of these sins within churches and it is never a pretty sight to see the devastation that is caused within a church that has lost a leader to such petty (I do mean petty sins) sins. These sins rip out the heart and soul of most members of a church that goes through this . . . fully 1/5 to 1/3 of the church members never go back to church. Ever.

As a leader I would not sacrifice my church members to such a petty sin. And it hurts to see other leaders sacrifice church members to such petty sins.

 

Second:

You provide a false dilemma . . . Blasphemy is the only unpardonable sin and therefore the greatest sin. Therefore, homosexuals can only be greater sinners when they blasphemy as well.

Personally, if you are not repulsed by certain sexual sins, I cannot further explain the revulsion that the average Christian feels to sexual sins - especially adultery, homosexuality, and child molestation.

I pray that you never experience these sins in or around you.

In Christ,

Wayne

 

Am I too cynical when this kind of stuff doesn't really surprise me? I think it's sad, but I can't say that I'm really shocked. Now maybe it's because I don't know the guy. If it was one of MY pastors, I might be a bit more shocked, but just because someone has the title pastor and continues in sins of this nature and gets exposed, it doesn't really shock me.

I think I might be too young (29) to be this cynical

 

MP

Great list. . . but, if I may, you forgot one item.

He sinned against God.

 

Ted Haggard I think at heart is an honest broker

I think he is between a rock and a hard place...Like President Clinton he is trying to process what to do and his Family of Five Children and Wife are very important.

I think the President once hunted down and caught had to process how to protect his wife and daughter.

Ted Haggard must go through the same process ...I think he will receive mercy for that.

One thing I respect over the years he has be very accessible all people for liberal to conservative ...I do respect him for showing mercy to John Kerry for the over hate of Kerry and putting it in perspective.

Ted Haggard has a future it may not be with the right wing religious types and on a speed dial with bush but he is a good commuinicator and shows common sense on issues such as global warming.

14,000 member church from nothing is nothing to sneeze at either but he might want to back off the right wing agenda and find middle ground as he goes forth.

 

Great post

In defense of Clinton this would be more valid.

But, as a pastor of God's people, there is not much future for a good communicator. Paul and Moses were not 'good' communicators, but they were men chosen by God for His ministry. And if as a pastor he lies as did Clinton, there is even less future for him.

IMHO. A 14,00 member church is an accomplishment, but the accomplishment that he needs will come from God and from God alone.

 

First, I had a great reply and then my computer crashed. I'll try to reconstruct it now

I'm sure part of my lack of shock is that I didn't know the guy. The name Haggard sounded familiar (but it could have just been because of Merel ) but I knew NOTHING about this guy.

I think you're right about him being a "Christian Celebrity." And I think often people think that means a heck of a lot more than it really does. It seems like we often take Christian organizations and make them sanctifying agencies. We think the leader of the NEA (or ETS, SBL, IMB, BWA, SBC or TLA) must be very holy or he wouldn't have gotten that far. But what we don't realize is that if that person is holier than I am, I'm pretty sure that organization had little sanctifying power in that person's life. In fact, it's just the opposite. When times are good in my life, I don't lean on God as much as I should.

Talk to the average seminary student before, during and after seminary and you'll find out the amount of time they spent in devotional time goes down after starting classes. Because we all have a fleshly side and that felshly side tells us "We can handle this part."

It becomes entirely possible for leaders of these organizations to look around and think "I must be doing something right." Add to that the praise they get from their members, and it's hard not to become proud.

I guess the other reason, as I thought about this, that these things don't surprise me, is they've been going on for at least 4000 years. The Jews thought each of the judges would be the Messiah. And as long as he lived, they were safe, yet they all died because they were all sinners. So they get their hopes up for the next one. Ultimately we see David, and even he falls. So if someone as righteous and holy as David commits mutliple sins agains the Lord, why should I be surprised that another "Christian Celebrity" was doing something illicit (whether sexual or not)?

 

Power and sexual expression so often go together. We can start out thinking that we are serving God, but we begin to believe our own press releases and it goes not only to our heads but also to other "less seemly" parts! The association of power, religious leadership, and inappropriate sexuality has been around since Aaron and the golden calf. Any time I see a pastor who is very full of himself, acts as though the world revolves around him, and imagines himself the most eloquent preacher since Chrysostom, I know I only have to wait until some sexual misbehavior comes out. It's not cynical to see this; but it is a dire warning to those of us who begin to think we are something special and therefore are either above the law or are immune to temptation.

 

We all need the warning and we all need to stay away from such sins.

 

Late 3-page warning: This thread will be closed no sooner than 12:30 a.m. ET by one of the moderators.

Lady Eagle,
Moderator