Evangelist Bob Gray arrested

We are not told to confess our sins to people, but to God. We are to confess our faults one to another, not our sins.

If indeed Dr. Gray is guilty (which has not been established), whether the people forgive him or not has no bearing on God forgiving him.

Bringing up another pastor who may or may not have had a problem has no bearing on Dr Gray and his situation.

 

I agree. If he is convicted, execute him. Let's wait and see what the verdict is.

Joseph Botwinick

 

As a victim of a attempted Child Molestation and cover-up myself... I say let him swing from the gallows.

 

He hasn't even had a trial yet. Don't you think we should at least go through the formality before we hang him? If he is convicted, execute him. Until then, I say we restrain our speculation and allow due process to follow its course.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Joseph!

The FACTS are that the IFB movement has been a haven and cesspole of Child molestors and sexual predators of the vilest sort for the last 40+ years. I was victim of one when I was 11 years old and I remember FULL WELL how the pastor attempted to cover it up and try to place the blame on me, this same Pastor ended up running off with another woman in the Church. By the way, the person who tried to do this to me, is still walking around a free man to this day, God only knows how many other kids he tried to hurt or has hurt. It wasn't till a few years ago, that I come to terms with what happened with me, and have felt comfortable talking about it.

Due process....BAH! I say castration with a nice rusty KNIFE!

-TheWinDork

 

Now there's a christian attitude. NOT!!!

 

Humph.... The dude that tried to molest me didn't have a Christian attitude either. I'm shocked how you IFB's will defend a child molester. So typical.

 

I'll repeat my post:

There are certainly victims here.

If the accusations are true, I ask God to grant peace of mind and spirit to the victims of this one who held a pastor's job.

If they are not, I ask for the same from God on the unfairly accused and his family.

I'm aware that not many accusations in this realm are false...but I also pray that our legal system will judge wisely.

God, please draw near to those victims, whoever they are, whose lives have been shattered. Grant them the ability to forgive, strength for today, and hope for tomorrow. May the Christians in that area be able to pick up the pieces as best they can, and continue to serve You despite all the ruckus. Amen.

 

TheWinDork,

The Bible nowhere tells us to return evil for evil. As a matter of fact, the Bible tells us if we forgive not men their trespasses, neither will the heavenly Father forgive us our trespasses.

[ May 20, 2006, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: standingfirminChrist ]

 

This may be true, sfiC.

But the man is in the hands of the law now, and is accountable for his actions. If guilty, he should bear the consequences of Romans 13:4-

While a desire for vengence certainly is not Christian, I do think one might rejoice in the carrying out of justice in due time.

Patience, WinDork.

 

Greg,

As you say, the man is in the hands of the law now. We do read in the Word these words...

My whole point is that we cannot be quick to judge. It may be possible he is innocent. He may be guilty. The evidence has not been heard.

I do not advocate one being going unpunished by the law for crimes done, but do believe the Word that says if we hate our brother we are the same as a murderer.

The statement that has been made by some shows nothing but hatred, which is not of God.

Let's wait for the trial and the evidence and even then, we must not be hateful in our attitude toward him.

The Word of God tells us if one is overtaken in a fault, we are to try to restore that one in the spirit of love and meekness.

When one carries a root of bitterness in one's heart, one can defile many. We need to give these things over to God.

 

Amen.

 

A fault? I tend to think of a fault as some natural tendency, like being too trusting, being too silly, not being really motivated, etc.. You know, like when a prospective employer asks you your worst fault. The expected answer includes stuff like "I take on too much work at once, I am overly motivated to achieve", etc.. "I have sex with little children" doesn't seem to fit in the list-of-faults type category.

 

Gina,

First, the accusations have not been verified yet.

Second, if they indeed were true, we do not know the last instance. If he was guilty of such charges, he may well have repented of it since then.

 

Was his name Bob Gray? If not, then I fail to see the relevance. I am sorry that someone hurt you like that, but a mere accusation does not justify vigilante justice on a possibly innocent man. This is why we have courts, due process, and a justice system. Without it, we all better pray really hard that nobody makes a similar accusation against us. That knife might not feel too good on you. Those who live by the rusty knife without due process,...well, you know.

Joseph Botwinick

 

who is to say he hasn't asked forgiveness? That is the whole point... we do not know the whole story.

As I said, even if he repented, that does not excuse him from the judgment passed in the natural. If he is guilty, then yes, he has a price to pay.

But let's not crucify one who professes Christ. Pray for him. Ask God to turn him once again to Him if he is guilty,

 

Humph.... The dude that tried to molest me didn't have a Christian attitude either. I'm shocked how you IFB's will defend a child molester. So typical. </font>[/QUOTE]I am a Southern Baptist.

Joseph Botwinick

 

I just want to go on record as saying that I find this statement highly offensive, needlessly inflammatory, unwarranted, and unverifiable. The IFB movement encompasses many many people, and has included many great men, both the well-known faithful and the obscure faithful. There are predators everywhere, and they will be attracted to any place where children are gathered. This does not mean that the gathering place is a "haven" for the predator.


I also want to add that any loyal staff will stand up for their pastor and his reputation until the accusations are proven true.
In cases like this with Dr. Gray all sorts of things are reported as "fact" in the initial moments of an investigation. Remember on 9-11 it was also reported as "fact" by some that all the Jews had gotten phone calls to stay home that morning. I also heard that martial law had been declared and that President Bush was missing.

I too will choose to withhold judgement until the case is proven or disproven.

 

Windork,
Truly sorry to hear what happened to you at 11. I hope you are at peace about it. I have no idea how old you are now, but I assume you are an adult. It seems to me that these cases need to be reported and prosecuted to the full extent of the law immediately for two reasons. One, it could be a statue of limitations expires, witnesses memory, evidence fades, and two and most important, if this animal is going free decades later when it is finally reported, how many other children did he molest that could have been stopped.