Evangelist Bomb droppers

Ture Dr. Bob, I have met the opposite extreme as well. Some folks are extreme local church, that they reject anyting that resembles a para-church ministry (mission agencies, Bible colleges, seminaries).

Most of the Anti-local church people I have met, are homeschoolers, and Gothardites. They all have a problem with pastoral authrority.

 

Proving 'membership' & 'join' from the Bible, it is flaws and grays.

Water baptism- Many baptists teaching when a person being baptizing, that person is being to be 'identify' with Jesus Christ, that person is already saved and follow Christ. 'Identify' does not prove in the Bible.

I know Romans 6:3-5 well. Often IFB use Romans 6:3-5 to teaching about the picture of the baptism, that a person being baptizing - death, under the water - buried, out of the water- resurrection. Being be identify with Christ.

Actually, the context of Romans chapter 6 discusses about put sins away, and buried sins away. Change our life, walk with Christ, new life and obey Christ.

Jesus Christ does not necesscary being to be baptized, because He is the Son of God. But, He have to obey God's command. You might asking me, what about the picture of trinity while Christ was being baptized? While Christ being baptizing, dove fly down, as it represents Holy Spirit, and light from above represents God, the Father, Christ in the water represents Son of God, as trinity. So, thereore Christ was baptized to identify to the people, who is Jesus Christ. This seems stress or emphasis to us that being to be baptized to be identify with Christ. Yes that is partially.

But, more than that. Being to be baptized is for OBEDIENCE. When Christ was baptized, then God told Christ, that he was well pleased with him, because Christ obeyed His Father.

Being baptized is not part of the membership purpose. Being baptized is for OBEDIENCE. Also, more than just baptizing into the water. Romans chapter 6 talks about put sins away, we do not serve sins anymore, we serve God and walk holy and to obey God. Christ died on the cross for us. So, we must die for Christ daily, means we must deny ourselve-self way or my own way. We must die daily means must give up our own ways and neglect worldly things and sins. Christ buried for us. that means we must put sins away and do not serve sins anymore. Christ rose for us, so we shall be rise like Christ, means walk holy life, and looking forward for our body all shall be change into immortality and to be like Christ at His coming. That what the context of Romans chapter 6 talking about. Nothing in the context of Romans 6 discuss about become membersip after being baptized.

1 Timothy 5:9 does not discuss about membership. It talks about helping widows. 'List' of the widows does not prove of logical or sense to support membership. Paul tells us, anyone of us include deacons should help elders(old people), and widows, who anyone we know one of them who attend our church, make the list of their names, that we should go and helping them. Nothing saying anything mentioned about membership in the context of 1 Timothy chapter 5.

I know Matthew 18:15-17 well. This passage talking about if a person sin against you, you have to be deal and solve the problem with that person, ask for confess and forgive. If a person won't admit and forgive. Then, you have to get two or more persons as witnesses even include pastor too, to prove that person doing wrong. If person keeps on deny for wrong doing and won't admit and forgive. Then, the final step is, a person have to face with the congregation(church), and make public that person is wrong doing, and ask to leave church.

Matt. 18:15-17 do not discuss about member. It discuss about how to deal with brother or sister in Christ to forgiven.

1 Cor. 5:11-13 talk about do not compromising or fellowship with world same with 2 Cor. 6:14. Bible commands us, that we must be separate from the world, because we are not belong them. Also, we are walk in the light follow Christ as godly life.

I would like to share with you about a fact story about becoming membership of church.

While I was a student at bible college. I took class - 'Personal Evangelical' learning about soul winning. We were discuss about become membership of the church. The teacher(he is the President of the college, and deaf pastor) said, if you want to be invlove in the ministry, as teaching, preaching in Sunday School class, then you have to become membership first. That why several students include me became membership of that church, so we can invlove ministry as teaching, preaching in the Sunday School class. If you do not yet become membership of that church, you CANNOT teaching or preaching.

That is not make a sense to me. Nothing find in the Bible saying that we must first become membership of the church before get invlove in the ministry.

Did Jesus asks His disciples have to become membership before start to preaching or teaching? No. Christ doe snot saying it.

Shortly after Christ ascend back into heaven, Apostle Peter preached to thousands in Jerusalem, there were 3,000 souls saved and baptized same day. Does Peter became membership first BEFORE he preaching to the people of Acts 2?

Christ does not saying to His disciples, that people must have to join church and to become membership. Christ commanded them to preach the gospel and to saved people, to teaching them growing in the Lord, that's all.

By the way, I aware of Independent Fundamental Baptist(IFB) strongly teaching on the 'local church'. I support them. I highly respect their belief on 'local church'. Because IFB does not believe that any church is under any headquarter, or organization. Only under Jesus Christ as He is the head of the church, also, church is under the people in that area(local) only. I am 100% support what IFB believes. But, we should be aware that all IFB, many different organizations of baptists do have their own statements, publics, rules, and even laws too. So, we cannot be expect that every IFB church have the same kind of standards, rules, laws, statement, publics, etc. Most IFB churches believe a person must join and become membership. Some churches do not require them to become membership.

If an IFB church believes a person require to join to become membership, that's fine with me, no problem. I respect that church. If an IFB church does not require a person to become membership, that's fine with me, no problem. I respect that church.

'Membership' is no big deal to me. More important is to win person for Christ, to discipline person to growing in the Lord. Christ interests that we must preach the gospel to every person about salvation, warning about sins and hell. Also, teaching them to be separate from the world, walk growing in the Lord.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

DPT,
I've never heard of an IFB church that didn't require people to become members in order to serve, have you?

As to baptizing them and in the act of baptizing them there, they are adding them to the roles of church membership...that is what they believe is right to do. ???

The Bible speaks very little of the actual "how tos" of church polity, which has led to many different interpretations of what is stated. I have friends that believe like you...that membership isn't important, and basically the members are anyone one attends.

BUT the problem is very real, organizationally, if you want to start a church, get a tax number, buy property, etc....you have to be able to prove that you have some people.

But, exactly all of the ins and outs...the Bible leaves a lot unsaid.

I find your posts interesting, PTD. Sometimes I don't always understand them. Is English your second language, (like are you Spanish, Polish, etc.)? Seems like you've had a variety of experiences.

But, I've noticed several times in the posts I've read that you mentioned that "this pastor didn't understand deaf culture". Maybe sometime someone could do a lecture or some teaching about the special needs of deaf culture...


...now...back to the topic...membership. My dad said if he had to do it over again, he'd start a church and not have membership. (But once again, I don't know how you could do it legally.) I know that it was said in reaction to all those making ridiculous claims to having thousands of members who you never see.

Becky P.

 

Becky,

DPT is first of all, DEAF. That means that, yes, English is his second language. I understand him pretty well because I am deaf myself, although I grew up in hearing culture (I also have a deaf wife who grew up in deaf culture, so that helps).

Deaf culture is a whole new thread, but I would like to see someone start it. So many hearing preachers and church members think that the deaf are just hearing people with their ears cut off. Deaf people fascinate me. I am proud to be able to associate with them and sad that more do not know Christ. Sadder still, that more good IFB do not see the need of ministering to the deaf, rather leaving it mostly to the cults.

OOOOPS! Sorry, getting off the soap box now. If someone wants to kick off a 'Deaf Culture' thread, count me in.

 

I have read the New Testament and there is NO requirement for local church membership. There is no verse that said you must be a member of a local church.

Water Baptism is very important, for not only it required OBEDIENCE, but also a first step to grow in the LORD in our Christian lives. Not only that but also you must be baptized to show the world that you have been saved and born-again, and you are IDENTIFIED with Lord Jesus Christ in His death, burial, resurrection and ascension and seated with Him in Heavenly Places. (Romans 6, and Ephesians 1,2)

Even though that there is no requirement for local church membership in NT, you have to be a member of a local church. Why? So you can serve the LORD in a local church and perform some functions there, such as ushering, teaching, helping others, maintenance work, etc.

Deafmidweeker

 

We typically get double our membership to the morning service and about half the memmbership to the evening service.

Liz

 

Praise the Lord!