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EVANGELIST QUALIFICATIONS
- Thread starter OnfireforJesus
- Start date
I don't think the Bible is as clear on that as most people think. The husband of one wife could just as easily mean monogamy vs. polygamy. But I do prefer to err on the side of caution. I am divorced, and I would not seek to be an elder, and I would refuse the position if it was offered to me. I am not convinced I am disqualified, but I would rather not take the chance of disobeying my Lord in ignorance.
Tell that to a myriad of missionary groups. I applied to many organizations for missionary work back in my late 30s and my application was rejected from every organization except one based on the fact that I was divorced as a non-Christian.
I'm only guessing on this, but the irony here is that if I was a former drug addict, murderer or devil worshipper I'd probably be welcomed as a person who could give a very powerful personal testimony. But divorce seems to be the unforgivable sin for many mission groups.
Originally posted by Rev. Lowery:
What we did pre-salvation is of no concern.
Here is a good example of why the church is weak! Rev.3:15,16
The Armed services have standards. Colleges have standards. Even the 7-11 has standards. The "church" no standards.
I D-O-N-'T T-H-I-N-K S-O
What we did pre-salvation is of no concern.
Here is a good example of why the church is weak! Rev.3:15,16
The Armed services have standards. Colleges have standards. Even the 7-11 has standards. The "church" no standards.
I D-O-N-'T T-H-I-N-K S-O
Brother Shiloh,
As I mentioned in an earlier post being passionate about a view does not make your view exclusively right or another's view exclusively wrong.
For instance when Hosea was told to marry a harlot can you imagine the utter astonishment in the community and how many would have said "Hosea you are not fit to be a prophet of God". Where those who spoke out passionate about their feelings wrong? Was God leading a different way? Yes
I know the above scenario cannot be proven from scripture but our knowledge human nature tells us that many probably shook their head in disbelief.
Here is my point it is neither your decision nor mine as to whether one goes into evangelism or not that decision belongs to the OP. If you believe that divorce is a sin that disbars believers from serving as evangelists I do not have a problem with that. But when you make statements that infer others are uniformed and are somehow less spiritual than you, then your attitude not your view, is unacceptable to me and probably others as well.
As a pastor would you attack one of your members for having a view of divorce that did not line up with yours? I would hope that you would understand that your member has a liberty in Christ and there is a difference between doctrines of faith and practice (theology) and doctrines of Christian conduct (life). They are both important but the latter has the greater degree of elasticity.
Have a great Sunday in Christ I know you will preach hard.
As I mentioned in an earlier post being passionate about a view does not make your view exclusively right or another's view exclusively wrong.
For instance when Hosea was told to marry a harlot can you imagine the utter astonishment in the community and how many would have said "Hosea you are not fit to be a prophet of God". Where those who spoke out passionate about their feelings wrong? Was God leading a different way? Yes
I know the above scenario cannot be proven from scripture but our knowledge human nature tells us that many probably shook their head in disbelief.
Here is my point it is neither your decision nor mine as to whether one goes into evangelism or not that decision belongs to the OP. If you believe that divorce is a sin that disbars believers from serving as evangelists I do not have a problem with that. But when you make statements that infer others are uniformed and are somehow less spiritual than you, then your attitude not your view, is unacceptable to me and probably others as well.
As a pastor would you attack one of your members for having a view of divorce that did not line up with yours? I would hope that you would understand that your member has a liberty in Christ and there is a difference between doctrines of faith and practice (theology) and doctrines of Christian conduct (life). They are both important but the latter has the greater degree of elasticity.
Have a great Sunday in Christ I know you will preach hard.
Rev. Lowery
New Member
I never said the Church shouldn't have standards. Where did I say that? The Bible has set Standard how can anyone deny that? I sure dont deny it.
By saying all standards apply to ones whole life you cause the Bible to contradict itself. In Romans Paul clearly tells how a mans life is changed after salvation and that the old man is gone and all things made new. If we say that everything pre-salvation matters then we are Taking away from power of The Word of God.
By saying all standards apply to ones whole life you cause the Bible to contradict itself. In Romans Paul clearly tells how a mans life is changed after salvation and that the old man is gone and all things made new. If we say that everything pre-salvation matters then we are Taking away from power of The Word of God.
I believe in the security of the believer. I also believe in staying married. But I don't think there's a connection. The relationship between a husband and his bride may be a reflection of God and His bride, but they are not the same thing. For one thing, God is perfect and is able to make His bride perfect.
Hope of Glory
New Member
I don't think the unsaved is a picture of anything godly.
Rev. Lowery
New Member
If a man and woman are married and neither is saved is there marriage of God or of the world????
If a man and woman divorce pre-salvation and remarry and then come to know Christ there marriage is now of God and they should never divorce nor would they have reason to.
How do we know sin, by the law, how do we know the law, by the word, how do we know the word, by hearing and that brings faith by that faith we see Gods grace and by grace we are saved.
Divorce doesn't negate a man from a Pastorate no more than being a former alcoholic, wife abuser, or drug dealer. How your life is post-salvation is what matters.
If a man and woman divorce pre-salvation and remarry and then come to know Christ there marriage is now of God and they should never divorce nor would they have reason to.
How do we know sin, by the law, how do we know the law, by the word, how do we know the word, by hearing and that brings faith by that faith we see Gods grace and by grace we are saved.
Divorce doesn't negate a man from a Pastorate no more than being a former alcoholic, wife abuser, or drug dealer. How your life is post-salvation is what matters.
Divorce doesn't negate a man from a Pastorate no more than being a former alcoholic, wife abuser, or drug dealer. How your life is post-salvation is what matters. by the Rev,
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From a man that asks so many questions you think you are an authority!
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From a man that asks so many questions you think you are an authority!
1Co 7:12
But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
1Co 7:13
And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
1Co 7:14
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
1Co 7:15
But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
Doesn't this indicate that a divorce before salvation would not hold us in bondage? In the very least it indicates that if the believer was married to an UNbeliever and the UNbeliever chooses to leave than the believer is now free.
But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
1Co 7:13
And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
1Co 7:14
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
1Co 7:15
But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
Doesn't this indicate that a divorce before salvation would not hold us in bondage? In the very least it indicates that if the believer was married to an UNbeliever and the UNbeliever chooses to leave than the believer is now free.
Hope of Glory
New Member
Rev. Lowery, I know I disagree with you on some things, and I'm more prone to express that than a simple, "Right on, Brother!" But in this case, you deserve a "Right on, Brother!" more than simple silent agreement.
Well, that's what happened to me TWICE. The mother of my children "converted" to Islam (the quotes mean I doubt she believes in anything but whatever gets her what she wants), and ran off to Germany. I consider that a blessing, since I have 100% custody of my children and I can raise them in a Christian environment.
Then I was fooled again and married who I thought was a Godly woman, but was actually a liar, perpetually unfaithful, and openly refused to obey the commands of the Bible she didn't like. She divorced me because I would not compromise the word of God.
So technically, I am free. But, depending on the church or mission organization, I'm the scum of the earth and unfit for any type of service.
I guess I don't understand why this is such a hot button for many organizations and churches. Yet these same people absolutely fall all over former drug users, devil worshippers, etc., because they have such a powerful testimony.
Finally, no Christian is without sin today. If we say we are without sin we make God out to be a liar. But if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. So even the "former" part of the equation doesn't make sense. I am certain that if a Christian falls back into drug use, but then repents, he would be honored by his church family. Why is there such a huge chasm between all other sins and divorce?
Rev. Lowery
New Member
Shiloh is absolutely right the lost can never appreciate marriage the way the saved do therefor the same weight isnt placed thereby negating the very act of marriage to a infinitesimally small matter.
But, Shiloe you shouldn't say that though about a saved person I am sure he does or he wouldn't ask the question he did.
We have made this an issue not God or The Bible, They are both clear on the subject.
Marriage is a sacred and holy act before God. God knows we are human and fall thats why he sent Christ to die for us. If we where perfect we wouldn't have needed Christ but we are not and we do. Divorce doesn't need to be any bigger an issue that any other sin because its all sin and God can not and will not tolerate sin.
I have many questions as well as many answers Shiloh and I am by no means an authority on anything the authority you read is not mine but Gods.
bapmom and HoG ty and I agree!
But, Shiloe you shouldn't say that though about a saved person I am sure he does or he wouldn't ask the question he did.
We have made this an issue not God or The Bible, They are both clear on the subject.
Marriage is a sacred and holy act before God. God knows we are human and fall thats why he sent Christ to die for us. If we where perfect we wouldn't have needed Christ but we are not and we do. Divorce doesn't need to be any bigger an issue that any other sin because its all sin and God can not and will not tolerate sin.
I have many questions as well as many answers Shiloh and I am by no means an authority on anything the authority you read is not mine but Gods.
bapmom and HoG ty and I agree!
There is an incredible evasion that goes on every time this is discussed. The texts concerning pastoral qualifications simply DO NOT MENTION divorce. You may think yourself justified in assuming that it is implied... but that IS NOT a valid basis for doctrine.
The texts say "one woman man". Now that has two consistent interpretations. Either one has been a "one woman man" their whole life or they (per context) they have demonstrated themselves to be a "one woman man".
A "one woman man" for life requirement would disqualify anyone who had ever had a feeling or relationship with a female that if done after marriage would be biblically considered adultery. That would include not only sinful thoughts but benign romantic thoughts as well. I am willing to conjecture that this would disqualify almost everyone if not everyone on this board who pastors.
A proven one woman man would have demonstrated a godly attitude toward his wife, women in general, marriage, and sexuality. For how long? However long it takes on to prove he is: "blameless, vigilant, of good behavior, sober, given to hospitality, apt to teach, Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."
Do you also make these lifelong requirements? If someone has ever coveted (which unlike divorce is actually mentioned in the text) would they be permanently disqualified?
To force "divorce" into the texts is to do violence to scripture. Let the scriptures say what they say... there is no call to try to be more "conservative" than God's declaration.
I am not advocating a low standard by any stretch. I think we have many men pastoring who should have been disqualified by a number of these qualifications. It seems to many that the most important qualification is one not even mentioned in the text... Those that are mentioned seem to be frequently disregarded.
The texts say "one woman man". Now that has two consistent interpretations. Either one has been a "one woman man" their whole life or they (per context) they have demonstrated themselves to be a "one woman man".
A "one woman man" for life requirement would disqualify anyone who had ever had a feeling or relationship with a female that if done after marriage would be biblically considered adultery. That would include not only sinful thoughts but benign romantic thoughts as well. I am willing to conjecture that this would disqualify almost everyone if not everyone on this board who pastors.
A proven one woman man would have demonstrated a godly attitude toward his wife, women in general, marriage, and sexuality. For how long? However long it takes on to prove he is: "blameless, vigilant, of good behavior, sober, given to hospitality, apt to teach, Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."
Do you also make these lifelong requirements? If someone has ever coveted (which unlike divorce is actually mentioned in the text) would they be permanently disqualified?
To force "divorce" into the texts is to do violence to scripture. Let the scriptures say what they say... there is no call to try to be more "conservative" than God's declaration.
I am not advocating a low standard by any stretch. I think we have many men pastoring who should have been disqualified by a number of these qualifications. It seems to many that the most important qualification is one not even mentioned in the text... Those that are mentioned seem to be frequently disregarded.
This is an excellent point, and it is suspiciously overlooked by those who are convinced they are "holier than the rest of us".
But I guess my problem with this chasm is the fact that, in many cases (not all, but many) there is no way to repent of being divorced in such a way that you are formerly divorced.
You can repent of being a murderer and then you become a former murderer even though your victim is still dead. But if it is impossible to reconcile a marriage, then there is no way to become a former divorced person.
IMO, this is what makes it the unforgivable sin in the eyes of many.
I know I gave personal examples, but I'm not saying this only applies to cases where the wife is to blame. Men and women can both divorce for the wrong reasons and repent of it. But if there is no way to reconcile the marriage, they have no way to become a formerly divorced person. Nobody will consider them former divorcees, no matter how they live their lives from that point out.
I guess I don't understand why this is such a hot button for many organizations and churches. Yet these same people absolutely fall all over former drug users, devil worshippers, etc., because they have such a powerful testimony.
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The problem with this is......you are right. That's one reason the "church" is weak today. Dr. Harold Sightler said one time that he believed if God called a man to preach then God will keep that man. We are quick to "use" a person that has been involved in gross sin. Is that right? I don't think so. I don't think that's taught in Scripture. Noah sinned, and there were three chapters before and only three verses about him after that. David sinned and his family paid. The problem with us is that we condone this junk because we are or have been involved in it. When you work in a bank and they teach you how to identify counterfeit money they tell you to study the real stuff.
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The problem with this is......you are right. That's one reason the "church" is weak today. Dr. Harold Sightler said one time that he believed if God called a man to preach then God will keep that man. We are quick to "use" a person that has been involved in gross sin. Is that right? I don't think so. I don't think that's taught in Scripture. Noah sinned, and there were three chapters before and only three verses about him after that. David sinned and his family paid. The problem with us is that we condone this junk because we are or have been involved in it. When you work in a bank and they teach you how to identify counterfeit money they tell you to study the real stuff.