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EVANGELIST QUALIFICATIONS
- Thread starter OnfireforJesus
- Start date
Brother Scott,
I have to be consistent that is why I said (per my understanding). I am no way suggesting that I could not be wrong only that I have to be consistent in my approach to this topic. The mans personal conduct is subjective per the viewer and in situations like this I believe I have to be objective in my decision making process.
As I said in another post I would rather err on the side of conservativism. I am not claiming infallability here but I have to be consistent to my own conscience.
If this man were to start a church down the road from us I would be one of the first to extend the hand of fellowship and I would never attack his position of deciding it is alright for him to pastor. Who am I to judge another mans servant?
But were I the pastor and this man came and asked my opinion then you have my answer/advice before you.
I have to be consistent that is why I said (per my understanding). I am no way suggesting that I could not be wrong only that I have to be consistent in my approach to this topic. The mans personal conduct is subjective per the viewer and in situations like this I believe I have to be objective in my decision making process.
As I said in another post I would rather err on the side of conservativism. I am not claiming infallability here but I have to be consistent to my own conscience.
If this man were to start a church down the road from us I would be one of the first to extend the hand of fellowship and I would never attack his position of deciding it is alright for him to pastor. Who am I to judge another mans servant?
But were I the pastor and this man came and asked my opinion then you have my answer/advice before you.
Hope of Glory
New Member
If only people would apply this here and in every other passage and take Scripture at exactly what it says, then we wouldn't be having these debates.
Rev. Lowery
New Member
Scott I agree with you totally and AMEN!
I also commend those that stand by there convictions but we must remember we can't add to the Word of God if it doesn't say it, it simply doesn't say it. Dont, read into it. You will only make yourself look foolish in the eyes of The Lord.
I also commend those that stand by there convictions but we must remember we can't add to the Word of God if it doesn't say it, it simply doesn't say it. Dont, read into it. You will only make yourself look foolish in the eyes of The Lord.
I respect that. Again, I have hold no bitterness toward you at all. I like vigorous debate. It's a healthy way to ensure that your ideas can stand scrutiny.
Yes and no. Personal conduct isn't always subjective. Making conduct measures as objective as possible is an intelligent thing to do. OTOH, consistency is still at issue. The notion seems to be that since divorce is "objective" that makes it an easy call that you don't have to use judgment with. The problem is that virtually anything else can be considered "subjective" and forgiven or else excused.
Further, divorce isn't so objective as many want to make it. The Bible gives exceptions. Then you must deal with repentance followed by a long period of proving one's self. The whole disagreement within the more "conservative" camp should point out the subjectivity involved. Some say no divorcees. Some say the wife can't be divorced either. Some require marriage. Some even disallow widowers. Some would allow for service after the first wife dies.
I know a real life example of a man who divorced and remarried. He was not considered for deacon for many years while living with his second wife. The first wife died- and the same church then considered him qualified.
But what is more conservative than observing the text and going no further? How is it conservative to add "divorce" to the list when God didn't?
Again, I am not arguing for a low standard for a pastor. Rather a very high one but also balanced, consistent, and reasonable with respect to the text.
You didn't come off as offensive.
Advice I would certainly respect. It is those who are dogmatic that I think have gone much, much too far.
[ May 23, 2006, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: Scott J ]
OnfireforJesus
New Member
Originally posted by thjplgvp:
Scott,
While I was typing you were posting.
"2) A romance with someone before your wife cannot be undone. A sexual relationship with a woman besides your wife cannot be undone... nor any other variation of not being a "one woman man". So if you are going to disqualify divorcees though the text doesn't mention divorce... then at least be consistent and disqualify anyone else who hasn't always been a "one woman man"."
First of all intercourse or romance do not equal marriage this is a myth that has been fostered way to long. Marriage is a legal binding document attested to by witnesses.
"but God clearly indicates in other places that He hates divorce and that the law only allowed it for the hardness of men's hearts."
The Law did not allow divorce it governed divorce Deut 24:1-4. The Jews had begun to practice the social values of the Egyptians in particular therefore God laid down rules to govern how the people would do handle divorce. Historical study on the topic shows that they were making a mockery of marriage.
When one understands the process of divorce he truly understand why Jesus said for the hardness of your hearts and why God says he hates divorce. The process was designed by God to reconcile the marriage and those who refused showed themselves to be very hard hearted indeed.
"No more so than the consequences of pretty much any other sin... that is assuming that the divorced party was not scripturally justified meaning that it isn't sin at all for them.
Funny thing there. The Bible gives two exceptions for divorce and there are those who would say these "non-sins" disqualify someone while simultaneously arguing that other real sins under the qualification list can be repented of and leave the man qualified. Very inconsistent reasoning."
You miss the point my friend it is not about forgiveness it is about position. How many convicted bank robber do you see as presidents of banks? How many drop outs do you see running schools? By your reasoning (I am not being facetious here) man should be allowed into heaven on his own merits because repentance and forgiveness have been attained. We know that God required particular qualifications for the position of Lamb of God, and only he could fulfill his particulars. Consequently ‘one wife’ means first and if it is not first then they are disqualified from the position but not the ministry.
mia mee'-ah
irregular feminine of 1520; one or first:--a (certain), + agree, first, one, X other.
The rendering is pretty clear though I found two who disagreed and three who conveniently bypassed the topic proving it has been a difficult topic for a long time.
Clark, Burkitt, Jameson-Fausset-Brown, People New Testament Commentary and Wesley all hold that divorce disqualifies one from the office of overseer. Virtually all commentaries hold that remarriage because of death is fine. My personal belief is that as long as the husband is married to his first wife (she may have been divorced) he is free to be the overseer of the church.
OnfireforJesus
New Member
My original question, which has stirred up many different replies. I do apologize to all , some who are somewhat aggressive with their answers, for anything I may have said to cause grief. Back to the original. I was referring to "Evangelist". I am CONVICTED of the fact that I would be disqualified to Pastor or Deacon any church. The desire the Lord has placed upon my heart is to get up and preach to that which is lost. I do not want to "oversee" or "council". Anything that is posted on this site will have no bearing on my decision. I was curious to see if anyone could show me Scripture that listed specific qualifications for "Evangelist" which is different than Pastor. I am, as Jeremiah, with His Word in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones! God's approval will ultimately be what decides this in the end. God Bless.....
OnfireforJesus
New Member
I am thankful to the many who have replied to my original question on the topic of qualifications of Evangelists. Unfortunately I believe some went off on tangents of the their own. Do not misunderstand me. I stand CONVICTED of the fact that I am disqualified to pastor or deacon any church. This is clear! But I have a burning fire inside of me as Jeremiah did to stand up and preach to those which are lost! Ultimately, the Lord will make the decision concerning my situation, not this website. I am not looking for man's approval anyway. I know I have a message that goes far beyond the Sunday School class, or the men's devotion night. I do not find Scipture, that shows qualifications of this position?
saturneptune
New Member
Thank you very much for your insight on what makes an evangelist a man of God. I will use this as a standard at our next revival.
But you can't become a former divorcee (unless you remarry and don't tell anyone you were ever divorced). Why? Because there's a checkbox on missions applications forms that says:
[ ] divorced
There's no checkbox that says:
[ ] murdered someone
Yes, you can become a former divorcer. But nobody seems to be interested in that. There's no checkbox that says:
[ ] used to divorce people but have repented of same
And even THAT assumes that the person was, in fact, a divorcer. This is not always the case. Ever hear of no-fault divorce? Your spouse can leave you, get a divorce, remarry, and therefore make it Biblically impossible for you to reconcile with him/her. You can't stop him/her no matter how much you try. You aren't a divorcer, and you never were. Yet when you fill out that application, you'll still have to do this.
[x] divorced
But you won't find any place where you have to do this.
[ ] murdered someone
Interesting conversation!
Considering we are all suppose to be “Fundamentalist”, there sure is a lot of different “opinions”.
That’s the problem, “Opinions”.
I, personally have gotten to a place where what man say’s, does not really matter.
Certainly, wise men are helpful, but when it comes to the Truths of God’s Word, our opinion does not matter.
I am satisfied being an IFB.
However, I am sometimes ashamed because of the way some of us act.
i.e. Don’t make your personal preferences my convictions.
If the Bible don’t say it, don’t you say it.
I believe in absolute Truth.
The Bible is “Objective” not Subjective.
Meaning, it does not matter what we think or feel, what has God said.
I get sick and it must make God sick to listen to IFB shove their preferences down others throats.
Things like; You must offer God your best and wear a suit, (tho’ I do, I may not think a suite is my “BEST”.
Or, a preacher should never have hair on his face, mmm! (Jesus, Aaron, Spurgeon, Moody,)
Or, “That music is too fast” mmm! (I’ll fly away)
So, what does this have to do with Evangelism qualifications?
Here you go.
I am a young preacher (32).
I preach often, teach a S.S class of 80 and am considering a pastorate as I speak.
I am often confronted with this question in my heart, “ What type of preacher should I be”?
I listen to all of the other IFB preachers and half of what they say, I can’t find Bible for.
i.e. (Suites and ties, music, facial hair,)
You know the normal IFB “rules”.
I have settled it in my heart, that if the Bible is not black or white, it is a “gray area”.
Again, I believe in “Absolute Truth”, only when it is supported by the Bible.
Evangelist Qualifications:
My friend and co-worker “onfireforJesus” had a question.
It seems that most have eluded to other topics and preferences.
The problem is they have no Bible reference to back up any of the garbage that is written.
Most, “Shiloh” is only saying what he heard someone else say.
Back what you say up with Scripture man.
I am appalled that there are so many ignorant “preachers” in the pulpits of our country.
Shame on us!
You prove with the Bible that the same qualifications for a Pastor /deacon applies to evangelist.
Don’t tell me what you think, feel or believe, back it up!!!
The truth is, there is not enough there to back it up.
Just like “husband of one wife” literally, ”a man, one wife”.
That could mean several different things.
We have just been programmed to believe the IFB way without Bible to back it up.
Regardless, we all can have our own opinion, but they don’t count.
What has God “plainly” said”?
That’s all I’m trying to say.
Be Bible minded, not Baptist minded.
I believe in the Baptist distinctives because there is Bible to back it up.
Convictions come from the Bible, preferences come from man.
Us Baptist have made a bad habit of only believing what those Baptist before us said.
i.e. Hyles, Hudson, etc.
My pastors father-in-law was Dr. Curtis Hutson, but he even had preferences.
He did not shove them down others throats.
If you want to believe that about qualifications, fine.
But don’t make them Bible if it JUST AINT THERE!!
That’s all!!!
P.S., SHILOH
Your demeanor, attitude, and everything that you have said reveals your heart.
“Be careful”.
I know your type, “Bless God, I’m a Independent Fundamental Bible Believing, pew jumping, devil chasing, sin hating, KJ only Baptist where Jack Hyles is worshipped more than God, And I agonna get everyone right”.
Be nice for a change.
I am as blunt as the next man, Just include Bible references next time you BLAST your “Gospel Gun”, or do you have references.
Considering we are all suppose to be “Fundamentalist”, there sure is a lot of different “opinions”.
That’s the problem, “Opinions”.
I, personally have gotten to a place where what man say’s, does not really matter.
Certainly, wise men are helpful, but when it comes to the Truths of God’s Word, our opinion does not matter.
I am satisfied being an IFB.
However, I am sometimes ashamed because of the way some of us act.
i.e. Don’t make your personal preferences my convictions.
If the Bible don’t say it, don’t you say it.
I believe in absolute Truth.
The Bible is “Objective” not Subjective.
Meaning, it does not matter what we think or feel, what has God said.
I get sick and it must make God sick to listen to IFB shove their preferences down others throats.
Things like; You must offer God your best and wear a suit, (tho’ I do, I may not think a suite is my “BEST”.
Or, a preacher should never have hair on his face, mmm! (Jesus, Aaron, Spurgeon, Moody,)
Or, “That music is too fast” mmm! (I’ll fly away)
So, what does this have to do with Evangelism qualifications?
Here you go.
I am a young preacher (32).
I preach often, teach a S.S class of 80 and am considering a pastorate as I speak.
I am often confronted with this question in my heart, “ What type of preacher should I be”?
I listen to all of the other IFB preachers and half of what they say, I can’t find Bible for.
i.e. (Suites and ties, music, facial hair,)
You know the normal IFB “rules”.
I have settled it in my heart, that if the Bible is not black or white, it is a “gray area”.
Again, I believe in “Absolute Truth”, only when it is supported by the Bible.
Evangelist Qualifications:
My friend and co-worker “onfireforJesus” had a question.
It seems that most have eluded to other topics and preferences.
The problem is they have no Bible reference to back up any of the garbage that is written.
Most, “Shiloh” is only saying what he heard someone else say.
Back what you say up with Scripture man.
I am appalled that there are so many ignorant “preachers” in the pulpits of our country.
Shame on us!
You prove with the Bible that the same qualifications for a Pastor /deacon applies to evangelist.
Don’t tell me what you think, feel or believe, back it up!!!
The truth is, there is not enough there to back it up.
Just like “husband of one wife” literally, ”a man, one wife”.
That could mean several different things.
We have just been programmed to believe the IFB way without Bible to back it up.
Regardless, we all can have our own opinion, but they don’t count.
What has God “plainly” said”?
That’s all I’m trying to say.
Be Bible minded, not Baptist minded.
I believe in the Baptist distinctives because there is Bible to back it up.
Convictions come from the Bible, preferences come from man.
Us Baptist have made a bad habit of only believing what those Baptist before us said.
i.e. Hyles, Hudson, etc.
My pastors father-in-law was Dr. Curtis Hutson, but he even had preferences.
He did not shove them down others throats.
If you want to believe that about qualifications, fine.
But don’t make them Bible if it JUST AINT THERE!!
That’s all!!!
P.S., SHILOH
Your demeanor, attitude, and everything that you have said reveals your heart.
“Be careful”.
I know your type, “Bless God, I’m a Independent Fundamental Bible Believing, pew jumping, devil chasing, sin hating, KJ only Baptist where Jack Hyles is worshipped more than God, And I agonna get everyone right”.
Be nice for a change.
I am as blunt as the next man, Just include Bible references next time you BLAST your “Gospel Gun”, or do you have references.
Now before anyone jumps on me for the word "gray area", understand that there are areas in the Bible that are not exhausted.
music styles, cloths styles, hair styles, suite colors, white dress shirts or blue dress shirts?,.just wanted to add that before anyone loads up the gun!
music styles, cloths styles, hair styles, suite colors, white dress shirts or blue dress shirts?,.just wanted to add that before anyone loads up the gun!
Most, “Shiloh” is only saying what he heard someone else say.
Back what you say up with Scripture man.
from the preacher boy in Curtis Hutsons son in laws church.
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A little like Eccl.1:9? When I quote Scripture from the Living Bible (KJV) most on here don't believe it. As far as your "grey" area is concerned, you can have it. Arrogant, bold, condescending, tough......you would have had a hard time with Mary, John 2:5!
Hey.....ever get to see Tony tell him I said hello. I'm wanting to see how good his Black and Tan female really is.
Back what you say up with Scripture man.
from the preacher boy in Curtis Hutsons son in laws church.
----------------------------------------------
A little like Eccl.1:9? When I quote Scripture from the Living Bible (KJV) most on here don't believe it. As far as your "grey" area is concerned, you can have it. Arrogant, bold, condescending, tough......you would have had a hard time with Mary, John 2:5!
