I have been an evangelist with a teen ministry since 1998. I was saved in July 1984. 7 years before that, in 1977 prior to my salvation, I was divorced. Do you believe there is something bibically wrong with my preaching as an evangelist at churches that I visit (not holding a pastoral position) but with my teen ministry program. By the way, I am a Baptist. I will not give my interpretation of scripture as I want to really hear what others believe in and why they believe the way they do on this subject.
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Evangelist Teen Ministry Question of Doctrine
- Thread starter Evan
- Start date
Aaron I appreciate the response. I Cor 7:28 But and if hous marry, thous hast not SINNED; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have rouble in the flesh; but I spare you. 2 Cor 5:17 speaks about the moment of salvation "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. Evan
The context of the passage quoted was of those whose marriages dissolved because of the conversion of one party. There would be no sin involved in their remarriage, but he admonishes them on a better way.
I don't know the circumstances of your divorce, but unless it was a direct result of your Christian conversion, or of the marital infidelity on the part of your wife, you have no Scriptural basis for remarriage.
If Paul's advice to those who could not sin by remarrying was to remain celibate, it would be hard for me to imagine that he would go easier upon those whose circumstances were questionable.
Again, I don't know what your circumstances are, but the advice is the same. I can tell you this, unless I was convinced you would remain celibate I would forbid any of my daughters from setting foot in a church where you held office [until you married.]
You said you wanted to hear what others thought and why. Well, there's my two cents
.
(Edited to add section in brackets in next to last paragraph.)
[ August 13, 2002, 04:52 AM: Message edited by: Aaron ]
I don't know the circumstances of your divorce, but unless it was a direct result of your Christian conversion, or of the marital infidelity on the part of your wife, you have no Scriptural basis for remarriage.
If Paul's advice to those who could not sin by remarrying was to remain celibate, it would be hard for me to imagine that he would go easier upon those whose circumstances were questionable.
Again, I don't know what your circumstances are, but the advice is the same. I can tell you this, unless I was convinced you would remain celibate I would forbid any of my daughters from setting foot in a church where you held office [until you married.]
You said you wanted to hear what others thought and why. Well, there's my two cents
.(Edited to add section in brackets in next to last paragraph.)
[ August 13, 2002, 04:52 AM: Message edited by: Aaron ]
Graceforever
New Member
Evan, I have a somewhat different view than that of the other brother….
IMO, I think circumstances dictate how your ministry is to be carried out… 1. If you were a sinner during the time of your separation, even though divorce is wrong in the sight of God, you weren’t subject to the laws of God…. Roman’s 8:7-8
After that you are saved, your past sins should no longer be in consideration….. God forgave you of your past sins, and the wife that you’re with at that time, is one wife, not two… Your only wife in God’s eyes…
2. If you were a believer at the time of your divorce, the circumstances again dictate whether you can still hang on to the gospel plow…. The Bible says that those that look back after they have put their hands to the plow, is no longer worthy…. In other words, no longer a fit vessel to deliver the gospel… You won’t lose your salvation, but you would lose your office as a minister…
3. Here are the two circumstances that God would allow for a divorce, and still allow you to maintain your calling as a minister….
A. If you couldn’t get along with your wife and you divorce her, and you either remain unmarried, or reconcile to your wife…. This would also depend upon your wife, because if she married again, it would have caused her to commit adultery…
B. If a brother has an unbelieving wife and she is pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away…. BUT…. If your unbelieving wife isn’t pleased to dwell with you, if she leaves, then you are not in bondage in those cases… In other words, God won’t hold a man to blame for the actions of an unbeliever… If then that man marry again, he has not sinned… Neither should the church of God hold that man apart from the pulpit….
If God doesn’t hold that man responsible in such cases, then why should the Church… Even though, out of ignorance, most churches do hold a man blamable, as though he still had two wives… It’s like any other hard to understand scriptures, men take them and twist them around to suit their purpose…..
To Grace Forever
Thanks for the reply. I was divorced 7 years prior to my salvation. I did not know the Bible at that time nor was I ever attending church. My ex-wife was not saved and remarried. My salvation had everything to do with God's calling and nothing to do with divorce because of the salvation as the other brother asked. Question as we ponder scripture: Paul who was Saul prior to his conversion (salvation) was a murderer. Killed christians. In the book of Esphesians, he states he "Preached" and was a "Minister." While I do not condon divorce of saved again believers prior to conversion I question. How can we in the church as evangelist and pastors say certain people prior to their salvation can become evangelist/pastors/teachers/elders but we seem to muddy the waters on this issue of divorce prior to one's salvation. I think God is very clear "that all things are passed away." Thanks again as I listen to the forum of what others think. Evan
Thanks for the reply. I was divorced 7 years prior to my salvation. I did not know the Bible at that time nor was I ever attending church. My ex-wife was not saved and remarried. My salvation had everything to do with God's calling and nothing to do with divorce because of the salvation as the other brother asked. Question as we ponder scripture: Paul who was Saul prior to his conversion (salvation) was a murderer. Killed christians. In the book of Esphesians, he states he "Preached" and was a "Minister." While I do not condon divorce of saved again believers prior to conversion I question. How can we in the church as evangelist and pastors say certain people prior to their salvation can become evangelist/pastors/teachers/elders but we seem to muddy the waters on this issue of divorce prior to one's salvation. I think God is very clear "that all things are passed away." Thanks again as I listen to the forum of what others think. Evan
TheOliveBranch
New Member
I think that a person who is divorced should not hold the position of a preacher, I Tim 3,taking into consideration verse 7. The sin of divorce was forgiven, but the consequences of sin remain.
This is the stand of our church and many other churches I have attended. I know of many of the more liberal churches that will welcome you, though. Why do you ask? Have you come up against some churches that refuse to allow you to come preach?
This is the stand of our church and many other churches I have attended. I know of many of the more liberal churches that will welcome you, though. Why do you ask? Have you come up against some churches that refuse to allow you to come preach?
Thanks for you response Olive Branch. I am not holding the place of a Pastor. I am a teen evangelist with a teen ministry and a teen evangelistic team. Most of the preaching is accomplished by college preachers in training/study. I may do a message now and then. I ask, because I want to see who favors and who doesn't favor. I have only ran into a "few" churhes that take exception especially since it was prior to my salvation and seeing it betters their outreach ministry for teens and that preacher boys do the most preaching. Do you think it necessary to open ones life prior to going if someone else was in the same position and seeking counsel on this subject? Evan
But may God help you if your spouse cheats on you, abuses you, abandons you and steps out of your life completely after you are a believer because many Baptists will give you no end of grief about it.
Yes, it is true that all sins are forgiven, past, present, and future, once we are saved. But the consequences of some of these sins stay with us till death. And the sin of divorce, murder, and probably a few others, stay with us as far as consequences go.
Because of the position you hold, you would be under the same qualifications of the Pastorial Epistles, and thus, because of your divorce you would be disqualified from this position.
Also, another point to consider, you are a direct example for these teens, and because of a blemished past, what kind of example are you for these young Christians, especially with as much peer pressure they are under with the things of this world. You would be sending a mixed message and thus bring confusion for them in the passages of Matthew and the discoarse of Jesus about divorce and the Pastorial Epistles of I & II Thimothy, and Titus, written by Paul. Remember that God said in His Bible that you have to be beyond reproach. And you have admitted that you do occassionaly preach.
Because of the position you hold, you would be under the same qualifications of the Pastorial Epistles, and thus, because of your divorce you would be disqualified from this position.
Also, another point to consider, you are a direct example for these teens, and because of a blemished past, what kind of example are you for these young Christians, especially with as much peer pressure they are under with the things of this world. You would be sending a mixed message and thus bring confusion for them in the passages of Matthew and the discoarse of Jesus about divorce and the Pastorial Epistles of I & II Thimothy, and Titus, written by Paul. Remember that God said in His Bible that you have to be beyond reproach. And you have admitted that you do occassionaly preach.
Justified: Thank you also for your consideration and position with doctrine. But I do feel that I am an example of what not to be prior to conversation just like the Prodical Son in the book of Luke. But I am also an example to the unsaved teen of what Christ can do for them. As for the unsaved teen, I really don't believe they care about a divorce from 25 years ago. What they are hearing is the Gospel message and pressures that they certaintly have in today's world, but how they can handle those pressures in a different way than what the world teaches them. Evan
TheOliveBranch
New Member
I know that this subject can be touchy. But in our Baptist circle, a divorced man cannot preach. He can be in a ministry, but the portions of scripture in I Tim and Tit are there as a guide for those desiring the position. As for you bringing it up, if the church takes a stand on this subject, then I would see it as deceptive behavior if you hide this fact. Maybe just stay away from this type of church if you don't feel you should bring it up to the pastor of that church.
And as Justified has said, you are an example to those teens. They may not care right now, because they aren't married. But what will this be to them if they have to face divorce. And not all of the teens you are standing before are saved. (Or did you mean conversion?) Yes, you are of one wife, but are you blameless and do you rule your house well? This is what the unsaved look at and use as excuse against us as Christians.
Olive Branch: I do rule my house well for 22 years with two young men. Both in baptist colleges. Am I blameless, yes I believe so with my intrepretation of scripture. See the problem is not being deceptive, the problem is, the churches don't tell you where they stand on this issue and then you find that there are Pastor's who believe as I do, but then there deacons raise a fuss and then there is division. The last thing I want to do is cause division between a Pastor and his Deacons because of a ministry that is not even a part of their church. I really think we turn our backs on other scripture references to balance the scales on other subjects os sin, but let's raise it when it comes to evangelist/pastors etc. Maybe true we should. But I have also know churches where Deacons are serving that have been divorced, drunkards, dope addicts. Do you agree by scripture that a Deacon is suppose to be able to guide and direct and yes, even preach when the pulpit is empty. Where do you balance scripture then? We need to be very careful to look at all things thru God. I don't believe that everything God tells us is the way he would want us to interpret. He is not told us the whole story and we will not know until reaching heaven. But I believe there is a huge difference even in fundamental baptist circles on this issue. That's why we are having the debate and right now it appears more in favor of my ministry than against it. But I am watching the feedback and praying about it. Thanks again for your insight. Evan
I have to agree with Aaron. As long as you do not re-marry there should be no problem. If you re-marry that will be adultry. Unless your ex-wife dies. Then you could or would be free to get married.
Also Aaron....if his wife was commiting adultry and he divorced her for this would it be ok for him to re-marry. I know who ever his wife would remarry would be commiting adultry right along with her...then...too...right? OR even vice versa.
Qualifications of Bishops 1 Timothy chapter 3
Bishop: A spiritual overseer in the christian church. In various churchs, a clergyman of the highest order.
Adultry: The sexual intercourse of two persons either of whom is married to a third person.
Instructions about Divorce: Matthew 19:1-15
......v9: "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, comits adultry; and whoever marries her who is divrorced commits adultry.
...v11: But He said to them, "All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given.
Also Aaron....if his wife was commiting adultry and he divorced her for this would it be ok for him to re-marry. I know who ever his wife would remarry would be commiting adultry right along with her...then...too...right? OR even vice versa.
Qualifications of Bishops 1 Timothy chapter 3
Bishop: A spiritual overseer in the christian church. In various churchs, a clergyman of the highest order.
Adultry: The sexual intercourse of two persons either of whom is married to a third person.
Instructions about Divorce: Matthew 19:1-15
......v9: "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, comits adultry; and whoever marries her who is divrorced commits adultry.
...v11: But He said to them, "All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given.
Oh and Evan...you could use the excuse you were not a saved person before....when you got divorced, and so yes, those sins have been forgiven.
...but now as a christian, you do know Gods word says if you are divorced, you can not remarry.
I showed you Gods word. That is the difference!
...but now as a christian, you do know Gods word says if you are divorced, you can not remarry.
I showed you Gods word. That is the difference!
I have heard the name legalist put upon different individuals and have heard individuals spout things interpreted by the Greek but no one who deals with the qualifications of a leader in the church ever interprets the scriptures dealing with this correctly.
When Paul was speaking about the qualifications he was not dealing with the issue of men who had been divorced and remarried. He was dealing with men who were polygamist. Doesn't anyone on this board realize that polygamy was still practiced at this time among the Jews?
Why would God refuse to allow a man to preach
because he got a divorce before he knew Jesus?
Any group of deacons or preachers out there who stand in judgement of others who made mistakes and sinnes before they were saved need to give up their positions because they don't know what forgiveness is and they sure don't know what mercy is. These who stand in judgement are just like the Pharisees. Self righteous. Reminds me of Jimmy Swaggart who got up and bashed Jim Bakker and Marvin Gorman for their failures and then turned right around a year later and fell into the same sin.
There is a big difference when a person gets a divorce after they are saved and there is no justification for it. I also take exception to those who tell preachers they have to leave the ministry because their wives commit adultery against them and they get divorced. God does not hold that pastor or minister guilty because of their wives infidelity. Any one who thinks so
does not understand grace.
So many people are so dogmatic about these things until it happens to them then Katy Bar the Door the tables are turned and so is their belief.
I know of many preachers and deacons etc who were so dogmatic along this line until it happened to them and boy did things change. They got married again and dared anyone to ask them to step down.
I have heard people tell men in the ministry that they have to quit preaching because their wife died and they got remarried. This is such garbage. People tend to want to interpret scripture to fit their standards and their beliefs but don't want to look at scripture in the light of the reason it was written in the first place.
What a person did before salvation has been forgiven and washed under the blood of Jesus.
God said he won't remember those sins anymore and neither does anyone have that right to play God and drag it up. If God forgives and forgets so are we commanded to do so.
When Paul was speaking about the qualifications he was not dealing with the issue of men who had been divorced and remarried. He was dealing with men who were polygamist. Doesn't anyone on this board realize that polygamy was still practiced at this time among the Jews?
Why would God refuse to allow a man to preach
because he got a divorce before he knew Jesus?
Any group of deacons or preachers out there who stand in judgement of others who made mistakes and sinnes before they were saved need to give up their positions because they don't know what forgiveness is and they sure don't know what mercy is. These who stand in judgement are just like the Pharisees. Self righteous. Reminds me of Jimmy Swaggart who got up and bashed Jim Bakker and Marvin Gorman for their failures and then turned right around a year later and fell into the same sin.
There is a big difference when a person gets a divorce after they are saved and there is no justification for it. I also take exception to those who tell preachers they have to leave the ministry because their wives commit adultery against them and they get divorced. God does not hold that pastor or minister guilty because of their wives infidelity. Any one who thinks so
does not understand grace.
So many people are so dogmatic about these things until it happens to them then Katy Bar the Door the tables are turned and so is their belief.
I know of many preachers and deacons etc who were so dogmatic along this line until it happened to them and boy did things change. They got married again and dared anyone to ask them to step down.
I have heard people tell men in the ministry that they have to quit preaching because their wife died and they got remarried. This is such garbage. People tend to want to interpret scripture to fit their standards and their beliefs but don't want to look at scripture in the light of the reason it was written in the first place.
What a person did before salvation has been forgiven and washed under the blood of Jesus.
God said he won't remember those sins anymore and neither does anyone have that right to play God and drag it up. If God forgives and forgets so are we commanded to do so.