I don’t believe it…
I agree completely with Aaron on a subject.
You have spoken well brother.
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Evangelist Teen Ministry Question of Doctrine
- Thread starter Evan
- Start date
I agree completely with Aaron on a subject.
You have spoken well brother.
TheOliveBranch
New Member
hrhema, 
I have posted many verses to show where I and many others stand. I asked for you to give the verses where the Bible says it is ok to remarry.
And as Justified has said and Jesus has said... the Pharisees came to him, tempting him. Jesus replied,"Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female. And said, for this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. Evan is married, to two women right now. Matt 19:2-6 (Justified's quoted verses; Matt 5:27-33, Matt 19:2-9, Mark 10:11-12,Luke 16:18, I Tim 3 and Titus 1.There is also I Cor 7:27.
Evan also doesn't think he should have to tell the Pastors of the church about this problem. He would rather hide it. Just as the child caught with his hand in the cookie jar, so does he hide what is wrong.
If he were to have this ministry and have only the teens do the preaching, he would be ok to alot more churches than just the very liberal or non-Baptist. But I will never hear him or his ministry in our Baptist circles, because we won't accept this. Am I not allowed to believe what the Bible says?
Evan also asked for the opinions of us. I gave mine and told him to go ahead, in his own churches. I told him my opinion, and was accused by others, of being judgemental. Then I get hit with being accused of not using the Bible verses to back up my stand. And to top that off, I was judged... by a liberal!!
I have posted many verses to show where I and many others stand. I asked for you to give the verses where the Bible says it is ok to remarry.
And as Justified has said and Jesus has said... the Pharisees came to him, tempting him. Jesus replied,"Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female. And said, for this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. Evan is married, to two women right now. Matt 19:2-6 (Justified's quoted verses; Matt 5:27-33, Matt 19:2-9, Mark 10:11-12,Luke 16:18, I Tim 3 and Titus 1.There is also I Cor 7:27.
Evan also doesn't think he should have to tell the Pastors of the church about this problem. He would rather hide it. Just as the child caught with his hand in the cookie jar, so does he hide what is wrong.
If he were to have this ministry and have only the teens do the preaching, he would be ok to alot more churches than just the very liberal or non-Baptist. But I will never hear him or his ministry in our Baptist circles, because we won't accept this. Am I not allowed to believe what the Bible says?
Evan also asked for the opinions of us. I gave mine and told him to go ahead, in his own churches. I told him my opinion, and was accused by others, of being judgemental. Then I get hit with being accused of not using the Bible verses to back up my stand. And to top that off, I was judged... by a liberal!!
TheOliveBranch
New Member
Advising wasn't asked. Opinions was. And again I'm being judged for my belief. I am constantly being told I am judging, but I gave all the verses to back it up. So is God not supposed to advise either when we don't agree?
TheOliveBranch
New Member
And where is the verses for remarriage? God didn't say anything about when the divorced occured, either. Consequence is painful. And not fair. But fair isn't in the Bible either.
TheOliveBranch
New Member
Hey Aaron, who said this?
Hey Aaron, who said this?
</font>[/QUOTE]I did. And this was before I knew anything about the grounds of his divorce, or before he said anything about being remarried.It doesn't matter though. Paul's advice was that those loosed from a wife (lawfully) should remain single and serve the Lord whole-heartedly.
I also said this: "I can tell you this, unless I was convinced you would remain celibate I would forbid any of my daughters from setting foot in a church where you held office [until you married.]"
[ August 16, 2002, 12:07 AM: Message edited by: Aaron ]
Cojosh,
If Evan is serious about being a servant of the Lord, there are plenty of things for a divorced/remarried person to do in the church.
But one thing is for sure, he can not head up a ministry or preach or be a deacon.
"It is always better to stand up for conservatism, then to fall into liberalism" Justified Version
TheOliveBranch
New Member
If you are using that quote to support remarriage, I suggest taking the whole chapter into consideration.
1. I Cor 7:1-7 Have a wife, don't fornicate.
2. vs 8-9 Unmarried & widows marry or not
3. vs 10-16 Divorce, reconciliation
4. vs 25-28 Virgins, to marry is not sin
5. vs 29-40 virgins and married, caers in Christ
1. I Cor 7:1-7 Have a wife, don't fornicate.
2. vs 8-9 Unmarried & widows marry or not
3. vs 10-16 Divorce, reconciliation
4. vs 25-28 Virgins, to marry is not sin
5. vs 29-40 virgins and married, caers in Christ
"Moses permitted divorce as a concession to your hard-hearted wickedness, but it was not what God had originally intended. And I tell you this, a man who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery-UNLESS HIS WIFE HAS BEEN UNFAITHFUL. Matthew 19:9.
Justified this is all anyone needs is a writing from the Lord Jesus. JEsus said a man who divorces his wife and remarries commits adultery unless his wife was unfaithful. This also applies for a woman.
Now I believe EVan has made it very clear that his wife moved out to live with another man. You don't move out to live with another man to remain celibate.
Again you cannot prove by what Paul wrote in Timothy that he was not saying to the men of that day they could not have more than one wife because polygamy was allowed. I believe that Paul would have directly said a man who has been divorced legitimately or widowed cannot preach or be a minister if that was true. I don't believe he would left it up in the air. I don't believe Paul would believe Christians would go against Jesus teaching about divorce and remarriage and judge someone.
Justified this is all anyone needs is a writing from the Lord Jesus. JEsus said a man who divorces his wife and remarries commits adultery unless his wife was unfaithful. This also applies for a woman.
Now I believe EVan has made it very clear that his wife moved out to live with another man. You don't move out to live with another man to remain celibate.
Again you cannot prove by what Paul wrote in Timothy that he was not saying to the men of that day they could not have more than one wife because polygamy was allowed. I believe that Paul would have directly said a man who has been divorced legitimately or widowed cannot preach or be a minister if that was true. I don't believe he would left it up in the air. I don't believe Paul would believe Christians would go against Jesus teaching about divorce and remarriage and judge someone.
TheOliveBranch
New Member
And because of the version you use, this mistranslation leads more into the sin of adultery. Properly translated, the word used is fornication, not unfaithfulness. Fornication is before marriage (see the lists for fleshly sin to back this up, in Matt 15:19, Mark 7:21, & Gal 5:19). Doesn't what God originally intended mean anything?
Hello to everyone. I am sorry for being gone since Wednesday night, but I have had serious email problems with my provider. I have been able to see your comments but have been unable to respond. I appreciate all of the discussion concerning the question. And, as we can all see, this is a very "touchy" area, even from fundamental to liberal Baptist churches. I have known churches where the Pastor states he has no problem with a divorced person (prior to their salvation) being remarried and then called by God to preach. I know, I know before you come unglued, I just stating the case within our own circles, but then the Deacons have the problem. Let me tell you something folks, I am as conservative as they come with standards and intrepretation. I have been educated by many who were very conservative and I am telling you it is divided about this issue. What I would like to know just for my sake, not that it means much, but how many who have responded are speaking from a position of a Pastor? You see, that is really where the "rubber" meets the road in any church. I didn't say that I don't share the information with a Pastor, someone I think presumed I don't. Do I put it out there for a churches public knowledge? NO! That is not my position, nor is it really anyone's business within that church I am visiting. You give the Pastor the authority when you call him, it is his decision then as to who comes and preaches or holds their ministry at that church. If I don't get to bring the teen ministry to that church, I understand. I don't walk away beaten down. My God is too great for that to happen to me. Because he washed me of my sins and loves me just as much as he does anyone else who accepts him. God utimately called me to this ministry, not man. I knew it would be an uphill battle sometimes. But, I will say this, I have been on "top" more than "under" when it comes to this subject effecting my ministry. In other words, I have seen more churches open than closed. Whew! I am glad I could get back on with all of you. Your Servant In Christ: Evan
Evan my 2 cents worth
The Matthew 19:9 doesnt say it is right to remarry - it merely states it is ok to divorce unfaithfulness - fornication - adultery
You are leading youth - as long as you present the truth - I see no issue as long as you dont teach what you did was right. You committed a sin, in remarrying, sorry that's how I see Scripture stating it. Your divorce fine, but your remarriage while your ex-wife still alive sorry.
Mark 10:10-12
As to another point on Matthew 19 passage - even if it was fine to remarry - you caused your ex-wife to sin by allowing her to remarry - yeah yeah the fornicating and stuff I know However you "had" an excuse you were unsaved - you dont have one now
Acceptable case of remarriage is death and death alone! Even in your heathen, pagan, unbelieving, damned to hell and eternal flames stage of life, you and your ex-wife were joined by God
Just dont become a deacon - pastor - elder until your ex-wife is dead. I might let deacon slide IF and only IF NO preaching duties AT ALL.
And Aaron because his ex-wife lives and was not stoned she is NOT dead under the covenant - and in theory she could still be saved and convicted of sin.
What then? she metaphysically dead in one sense?
The Matthew 19:9 doesnt say it is right to remarry - it merely states it is ok to divorce unfaithfulness - fornication - adultery
You are leading youth - as long as you present the truth - I see no issue as long as you dont teach what you did was right. You committed a sin, in remarrying, sorry that's how I see Scripture stating it. Your divorce fine, but your remarriage while your ex-wife still alive sorry.
Mark 10:10-12
As to another point on Matthew 19 passage - even if it was fine to remarry - you caused your ex-wife to sin by allowing her to remarry - yeah yeah the fornicating and stuff I know
However you "had" an excuse you were unsaved - you dont have one nowAcceptable case of remarriage is death and death alone! Even in your heathen, pagan, unbelieving, damned to hell and eternal flames stage of life, you and your ex-wife were joined by God
Just dont become a deacon - pastor - elder until your ex-wife is dead. I might let deacon slide IF and only IF NO preaching duties AT ALL.
And Aaron because his ex-wife lives and was not stoned she is NOT dead under the covenant - and in theory she could still be saved and convicted of sin.
What then? she metaphysically dead in one sense?
Saluris
So what are you saying or what is your position on the subject of my being an evangelist with a teen ministry. I don't tell any teenager I was right in what I did. But it was for unfaithfulness and adultery. Before I was saved. I don't know that she remarried. I have not seen or heard of her since 25 years ago. Thanks. Evan
So what are you saying or what is your position on the subject of my being an evangelist with a teen ministry. I don't tell any teenager I was right in what I did. But it was for unfaithfulness and adultery. Before I was saved. I don't know that she remarried. I have not seen or heard of her since 25 years ago. Thanks. Evan
Sularis said: And Aaron because his ex-wife lives and was not stoned she is NOT dead under the covenant - and in theory she could still be saved and convicted of sin.
What then? she metaphysically dead in one sense?
Absolutely. If there were no grounds for remarriage, there could be no grounds for divorce. Why is the fornication/adultery exception there? Because in God's eyes, the adulterer is dead.
The prohibition is against man putting asunder a marriage. God is the One who says when it's over. It's over when there's unfaithfulness.
[ August 19, 2002, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: Aaron ]
What then? she metaphysically dead in one sense?
Absolutely. If there were no grounds for remarriage, there could be no grounds for divorce. Why is the fornication/adultery exception there? Because in God's eyes, the adulterer is dead.
The prohibition is against man putting asunder a marriage. God is the One who says when it's over. It's over when there's unfaithfulness.
[ August 19, 2002, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: Aaron ]
My translation is not wrong. For someone to say that is ludicrous. Why would Jesus talk about a sin that happens before marriage when he was dealing with marriage. Come on guys wise up.
The priests who translated the King James Version lived in the 1600's. At that time there was no distinction between Fornication and Adultery.
Sex outside of the marriage bed whether it was pre-marital or post-marital was called Fornication and the person who committed the act a Fornicator. To the translators Fornication and ADultery was the same.
In Biblical times a prostitute was called an Adultress. It mattered not if she had ever been married or not.
Also I could not believe the post who condemned for allowing the wife to remarry. Allowing? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard written. Allowing, like there was any way he could stop her from remarrying or cohabiting with someone else. You better read the post again because I believe the wife filed for divorce and the wife committed the sin.
I am going to say this again. You should not post words of condemnation based on faulty interpretations of scripture. You need to study and understand what Jesus was saying.
Moses gave the Jewish men free reign. A woman could refuse to fix his meal more than once and he could divorce her. Jesus was talking about all the ridiculous reasons a man could divorce his wife but he gave the only justification for divorce and remarriage.
Like I said in an earlier post you hardliners will turn the tables around if it happens to you.
Let one of your spouses cheat on you and lets see how long you stay married and lets see how long you live alone. Then let all the other hardliners point their fingers at you.
The priests who translated the King James Version lived in the 1600's. At that time there was no distinction between Fornication and Adultery.
Sex outside of the marriage bed whether it was pre-marital or post-marital was called Fornication and the person who committed the act a Fornicator. To the translators Fornication and ADultery was the same.
In Biblical times a prostitute was called an Adultress. It mattered not if she had ever been married or not.
Also I could not believe the post who condemned for allowing the wife to remarry. Allowing? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard written. Allowing, like there was any way he could stop her from remarrying or cohabiting with someone else. You better read the post again because I believe the wife filed for divorce and the wife committed the sin.
I am going to say this again. You should not post words of condemnation based on faulty interpretations of scripture. You need to study and understand what Jesus was saying.
Moses gave the Jewish men free reign. A woman could refuse to fix his meal more than once and he could divorce her. Jesus was talking about all the ridiculous reasons a man could divorce his wife but he gave the only justification for divorce and remarriage.
Like I said in an earlier post you hardliners will turn the tables around if it happens to you.
Let one of your spouses cheat on you and lets see how long you stay married and lets see how long you live alone. Then let all the other hardliners point their fingers at you.