Eve, how did she help?

[donnA]

Who put the tree of the knowledge of good and evil into the garden?

Without this tree, where would sin originate from?

This gives Adam and Eve a legitimate excuse for their sin and why they themselves are not responsible for their sin.

 

[Amy.G]

I think sin originated in the heart of man.

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--

 

[Allan]

This gives Adam and Eve a legitimate excuse for their sin and why they themselves are not responsible for their sin.

There is no excuse, what Amy stated actaully removes the excuses they could have used. They 'could have' but they didn't. If they couldn't have gone to God for help THEN it would give Adam and Eve a legitimate excuse to accuse God.

 

[Allan]

I think sin originated in the heart of man.

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--

Correct Amy.

 

[Alcott]

There is no excuse, what Amy stated actaully removes the excuses they could have used. They 'could have' but they didn't. If they couldn't have gone to God for help THEN it would give Adam and Eve a legitimate excuse to accuse God.

If they really had no knowledge of good and evil, how could they have known they needed any help, or that contradicting what God said was either good or evil?

 

[Palatka51]

God put the tree in the garden. God gave the command not to eat of it. But it was Adam and Eve that chose to disobey and thereby, sinned. They are responsible for their own sin.

I've wondered why didn't they just go to God and say, "this serpent is bothering us and telling us all this stuff, is it true, God?"

Again that would have been the Spiritual thing to do. Let the LORD rebuke Satan. However Adam was flesh and acted accordingly.

 

[Amy.G]

how could they have known they needed any help, or that contradicting what God said was either good or evil?

Because they had a command from God that was contrary to what Satan was telling them and they knew that eating from the tree would bring death.
They made an informed decision.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I think sin originated in the heart of man.

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--

Why didn't Paul say, "sin entered the world through one woman? How often I've seen men, especially fundamentalist men use the phrase, "Eve ate the fruit first" as an argument for man being the "boss" over women. Does this mean that Paul did not think Eve sinned?

 

[Allan]

Why didn't Paul say, "sin entered the world through one woman? How often I've seen men, especially fundamentalist men use the phrase, "Eve ate the fruit first" as an argument for man being the "boss" over women. Does this mean that Paul did not think Eve sinned?

Because it took Adam to create the child and therefor you have his sin nature passing from the Father to the children. The term 'world' there isn't meaing the planet but of mankind. Sin passed from Adam to his children jsut as the sin nature passes from the fathers to their children. Didn't you ever wonder why Jesus had to be born of a virgin?

 

[Crabtownboy]

Because it took Adam to create the child and therefor you have his sin nature passing from the Father to the children. The term 'world' there isn't meaing the planet but of mankind. Sin passed from Adam to his children jsut as the sin nature passes from the fathers to their children. Didn't you ever wonder why Jesus had to be born of a virgin?

That seems a interesting interpretation. If you are correct, why is it that fundamentalist men blame Eve?


I have yet to see a child, other than Jesus, who did not have both an earthly physical mother as well as a physical father.

 

[Allan]

That seems a interesting interpretation. If you are correct, why is it that fundamentalist men blame Eve?


I have yet to see a child, other than Jesus, who did not have both an earthly physical mother as well as a physical father.

Eve was the first TO sin, Adam was the one through whom it came into the world.

Eve is resposible for her sin and she did it first, but the sin nature is not passed on via the woman but the man. So the fundamentalists have it right though sometimes some can be a bit extreme.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Eve was the first TO sin, Adam was the one through whom it came into the world.

Eve is resposible for her sin and she did it first, but the sin nature is not passed on via the woman but the man. So the fundamentalists have it right though sometimes some can be a bit extreme.

I find that interpretation interesting. I'll chew on it, but at the moment I am not convinced. It is always good to hear a new idea to roll around in my mind. :wavey:

 

[Palatka51]

Because it took Adam to create the child and therefor you have his sin nature passing from the Father to the children. The term 'world' there isn't meaing the planet but of mankind. Sin passed from Adam to his children jsut as the sin nature passes from the fathers to their children. Didn't you ever wonder why Jesus had to be born of a virgin?

Good post Allan, :thumbs: The egg of the woman is dead without the sperm of man. Life is in his seed. The woman sinned first but was not held accountable, in that death would not be passed down through her but the man. Because her life is taken out of the man. Eve was formed from Adam's rib. Likewise her seed dies if not saved by the seed of man. Adam could have done what was necessary if he acted according to the Spirit instead of the flesh. Thus God instituted the coming Savior through her and not Adam because he failed in his duty to save her. Jesus did not fail because He was born of the Holy Spirit and acted accordingly.

Wow, I think that this verse fits here;

1 Timothy 2:12-15
12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Verse 15 has always thrown me until now. :godisgood:

 

[Alcott]

Because they had a command from God that was contrary to what Satan was telling them and they knew that eating from the tree would bring death.
They made an informed decision.

But they could not possibly have known a lie when they heard one; nor that it was good or evil for God to tell them what he did, nor good or evil for the snake to tell them what he did. If they knew contradicting what God had told them was evil, then they already had knowledge-- some knowledge anyway-- of good and evil.

 

[Allan]

Good post Allan, :thumbs: The egg of the woman is dead without the sperm of man. Life is in his seed. The woman sinned first but was not held accountable, in that death would not be passed down through her but the man. Because her life is taken out of the man. Eve was formed from Adam's rib. Likewise her seed dies if not saved by the seed of man. Adam could have done what was necessary if he acted according to the Spirit instead of the flesh. Thus God instituted the coming Savior through her and not Adam because he failed in his duty to save her. Jesus did not fail because He was born of the Holy Spirit and acted accordingly.

Wow, I think that this verse fits here;

1 Timothy 2:12-15
12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Verse 15 has always thrown me until now. :godisgood:

I'm not sure I said all of that. Maybe up to about the "Eve was formed" part. The next sentence is a deducement. But after that it is all yours.

I don't believe Adam could have "saved" Eve since he had nothing with which to exchange to God on her behalf that was etermal nor perminent like Christ Jesus did. Remember the consequence and judgment for our sin is 'eternal' seperation from God and damnation. Only God could pay the costly price of eternity, and why no man could have ever done it. If we could have God would have only needed to make a man with no sin. Yet that man's sinless life could not pay for one life in an eternal value, only God who is eternal AND sinless could pay such a price for man

 

[Joe]

This gives Adam and Eve a legitimate excuse for their sin and why they themselves are not responsible for their sin.

Ha ha ha. Smarty britches

Evil originated from God, sin originated out of evil. Pure and simple. Again, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

God placed the tree in the garden amongst the fruits and veges (or it seems) where Adam and Eve congregate each day for meals. Then he let a serpent loose who was known for being the most cunning beast around to help steer Even into doing exactly what she did.

Whether Eve at the fruit or whether she didn't really makes no difference.

It would have happened with her decendents anyways, as the Lord desired it to.

That's the point of making this golden opportunity of the furit of the tree so appealing to the flesh.

This sin was a collaborative effort

The whole point is to cause sin and suffering to enter the world so we are forced to rely upon the Lord. He wants complete and total submission and all the Glory for himself. Doesn't mean he is not righteous.

My two cents

 

[Allan]

Ha ha ha. Smarty britches

Evil originated from God, sin originated out of evil. Pure and simple. Again, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

This sin committed was a collaborative effort.

God placed the tree in the garden amongst the fruits and veges (or it seems) where Adam and Eve congregate each day for meals. Then he let a serpent loose who was known for being the most cunning beast around to help steer Even into doing exactly what she did.

Whether Eve at the fruit or whether she didn't really makes no difference.

It would have happened with her decendents anyways, as the Lord desired it to.

That's the point of making this golden opportunity of the tree so appealing to the flesh.

The whole point is to cause sin and suffering to enter the world so we are forced to rely upon the Lord. He wants complete submission and all the Glory for himself. Doesn't mean he is not righteous.

My two cents

Sorry, I absolutely and completely disagree.
First, God didn't send the serpent in. Satan possesed the serpent to decieve.

The Lord didn't 'desire' to make His creation sin, nor in the same sense was it Gods desire to make His creation fall.
You have effectively made God the author of sin in your above statements.

God knowing what they would do willingly in the midst of choice and allowing, is not the same as determining to make them do it.

 

[Joe]

I think sin originated in the heart of man.

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned--

Sin entered the world thru Adam but it originated from the evil God planted in our world (via a tree). Evil was created by God as was sin. Angels sinned by rebelling against God prior to him creating the earth, so he has experience with his creation not behaving prior to his creation of Man.
We can't have sin without a law, God decides what is sin. He is the author of sin. It can't exist without him.

Therefore even sin originated, or was created by, God before he created the earth.

 

[Amy.G]

Sin entered the world thru Adam but it originated from the evil God planted in our world (via a tree). Evil was created by God as was sin. Angels sinned by rebelling against God prior to him creating the earth, so he has experience with his creation not behaving prior to his creation of Man.
We can't have sin without a law, God decides what is sin. He is the author of sin. It can't exist without him.

Therefore even sin originated, or was created by, God before he created the earth.

The tree wasn't evil. It was just a tree and as with all things, it had no moral qualities. The evil was in disobedience and deliberate rebellion to God. Evil comes from the heart of man.
God is not the author of sin.

 

[webdog]

Sin entered the world thru Adam but it originated from the evil God planted in our world (via a tree). Evil was created by God as was sin. Angels sinned by rebelling against God prior to him creating the earth, so he has experience with his creation not behaving prior to his creation of Man.
We can't have sin without a law, God decides what is sin. He is the author of sin. It can't exist without him.

Therefore even sin originated, or was created by, God before he created the earth.

I disagree completely. If God is the author of sin, He would be no different than satan. In fact, they would be partners. That goes against the very nature of God...a God who DESPISES sin.

I think you need to rethink this position, Joe.