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Even the cable companies have fallen prey to Calvinism
- Thread starter Revmitchell
- Start date
OK, I still haven't seen him sign his posts with his first name "Mark", but now I have seen his first name being used.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Well, gentlemen,
I'll get it out in the open sooner, rather than later...
The reason I prefer to address all of my brothers, whoever they may be, with either their first name, their last name followed by "Mr.", or with the use of the term, "sir", is that I personally do not hold to titles outside of the afore-mentioned. When addressing government officials, I would suspend that, like Paul did when he addressed Felix, etc. and address them as, " Honorable" followed by "Mr." or "Ms.", or their title, such as " Mr. President", "Senator ------", "Congressman/woman" and more.
Also there's the fact that I was raised by a former United States Marine Corps Staff Sergeant and I was 10 years an airman in Uncle Sam's Navy, so the "sir" has been a bit ingrained into me.
Then there's this, and Mr. Mitchell has already hit on it...to which he basically states that it doesn't mean the same to him as it does to those of us who may take such things more seriously, IMO :
"adjective
adjective: reverend
- 1.used as a title or form of address to members of the clergy.
"the Reverend Jesse Jackson"
noun
informal
noun: reverend; plural noun: reverends
- 1.a member of the clergy.
Latin = "revereri" --------> "reverendus" ( person to be revered )
Old French = "reverend", "venerable"
English ( Late Middle ) = "revere"
Because of this, I prefer not to address anyone as "Reverend", "Father" ( definitely not, Matthew 23:9 ), or "Your Grace". To me, there is only one Father...my Father in Heaven. There is only one "Reverend", and that's Him.
I do not believe in clergy / laity distinction, because I see that as the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing Christ hates ( Revelation 2:6, 15 ). I'm sure some of you will agree, and most may not.
What I do believe in is the priesthood of all believers ( 1 Peter 2:5 ) and we are all equals, except for our spiritual gifts and offices of watching over and serving our brothers and sisters...because of this, I prefer for people to address me as simply "Dave", "Mr. Gilbert", or, if I'm among believers ( like we are here ) I am comfortable with "Brother" or "Brother Gilbert". If someone wants to call me "Pastor" someday, I'm not beyond answering to it, but I'm a long ways off from feeling like I will ever be one of those, so that's off the table as far as I'm concerned.
May God bless you each and every one.
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Dave G
Well-Known Member
Mr. Mitchell,
Again ( and if I haven't said it enough ), it is not my intention to ever insult you or to belittle you. If you have a problem with what I believe, it's not my problem. If you wish to refer to what I believe in the derogatory, then that is your prerogative. If you have a problem with the way I behave, we can discuss that. For the record, my reluctance to use or discomfort with using the term "reverend", has nothing to do with "getting over myself"... it has everything to do with honoring the Lord above men, sir, and that is all.
Please know this:
I will do everything I can to uphold these:
" If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men." ( Romans 12:18 )
" Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:" ( Hebrews 12:14 )
...as much as I can, and not to answer you ( or any of you for that matter ), out of anger or with sarcasm ( with which I was considered a 4 star General when I was in my 20's and 30's, to my regret ).
I have plenty of that in my flesh, and the Lord wants me to put such things away:
" Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you." ( Ephesians 4:29-32 )
The 3rd chapter of Colossians also comes to mind.
The Lord knows I have not always done this ( I've made a wreck out it at times and I may slip up here, if I'm not careful...please tell me, so I can check it in advance ), but I'd very much like to stop and to obey Him in at least something before I go to meet Him.
His grace to you, sir.
Again ( and if I haven't said it enough ), it is not my intention to ever insult you or to belittle you. If you have a problem with what I believe, it's not my problem. If you wish to refer to what I believe in the derogatory, then that is your prerogative. If you have a problem with the way I behave, we can discuss that. For the record, my reluctance to use or discomfort with using the term "reverend", has nothing to do with "getting over myself"... it has everything to do with honoring the Lord above men, sir, and that is all.
Please know this:
I will do everything I can to uphold these:
" If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men." ( Romans 12:18 )
" Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:" ( Hebrews 12:14 )
...as much as I can, and not to answer you ( or any of you for that matter ), out of anger or with sarcasm ( with which I was considered a 4 star General when I was in my 20's and 30's, to my regret ).
I have plenty of that in my flesh, and the Lord wants me to put such things away:
" Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you." ( Ephesians 4:29-32 )
The 3rd chapter of Colossians also comes to mind.
The Lord knows I have not always done this ( I've made a wreck out it at times and I may slip up here, if I'm not careful...please tell me, so I can check it in advance ), but I'd very much like to stop and to obey Him in at least something before I go to meet Him.
His grace to you, sir.
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You mean like, the wind is with you = a hard blow, or a blow hard?
Personally I am not a great fan of "Reverend" as an ecclesiastical title but if another chooses to use it, that is up to him and I will honor his wishes as to how he is addressed.
To me, the highest title a man can have is "Pastor." And that is a title the bible bestows on Christ's choicest servants, those He has called and appointed to Shepherd the Flock of God.
But, each to his own.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Don't be too hard on Mark. He believes the Bible. He preaches the Word. He shepherds the flock of God. He has compassion on the sick and lowly. And he is God's hand picked man for the church where he serves.
He may disagree with me about the finer points of soteriology, be he is still God's man. And my brother in Christ. And if he ever makes it to the far south of Texas, or if I make it to central Florida, I will gladly buy him lunch and enjoy Christian fellowship with him. (And that is not out of the question as I have a brother-in-law who pastors in Titusville.)
Mr. Mitchell,
Again ( and if I haven't said it enough ), it is not my intention to ever insult you or to belittle you. If you have a problem with what I believe, it's not my problem. If you wish to refer to what I believe in the derogatory, then that is your prerogative. If you have a problem with the way I behave, we can discuss that. For the record, my reluctance to use or discomfort with using the term "reverend", has nothing to do with "getting over myself"... it has everything to do with honoring the Lord above men, sir, and that is all.
Please know this:
I will do everything I can to uphold these:
" If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men." ( Romans 12:18 )
" Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:" ( Hebrews 12:14 )
...as much as I can, and not to answer you ( or any of you for that matter ), out of anger or with sarcasm ( with which I was considered a 4 star General when I was in my 20's and 30's, to my regret ).
I have plenty of that in my flesh, and the Lord wants me to put such things away:
" Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you." ( Ephesians 4:29-32 )
The 3rd chapter of Colossians also comes to mind.
The Lord knows I have not always done this ( I've made a wreck out it at times and I may slip up here, if I'm not careful...please tell me, so I can check it in advance ), but I'd very much like to stop and to obey Him in at least something before I go to meet Him.
His grace to you, sir.
I don't believe you. Trying to tie people who do not believe in the evil that you do to Catholicism is a debate tactic. I have been involved in these discussions and debates for a long time. I have seen you guys come and go. In other words this aint my first rodeo. I can very easily and with great integrity tie your evil to Augustine and gnosticism. At the same time I do not see that it is necessary to take things that far. Quite frankly guys like you are either trying to tie us to Catholicism or open theology "cuz it is the logical conclusion". You are welcome to continue your little diatribe and debate tactic but it only reveals who you are. And like you if you do not like what I believe there is nothing I can do about that.
I can state that my understanding on Calvinism came not from what Augustine, or Calvin, or Luther held with, but what the Bible teaches to us regarding method of salvation.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Mr. Mitchell,
I think I'm going to use a page out of your own book and state, "Association Fallacy". Lumping me together with everyone who calls themselves a "Calvinist", is unfair, and I'll tell you why:
I'm not a "Calvinist". I believe what the Bible says about election, predestination, calling, justification and a whole lot more. I just happen to believe passages at face value that it seems you do not.
But to use a term you are familiar with, there are two types of "Calvinists"...
1) Those who get it traditionally through men and institutions of men ( like many today do ), and
2) Those who read Scripture for themselves and understand it over time ( like William Tyndale, Jonathan Edwards, Charles Spurgeon, George Mueller and many others ).
#2 is the one you probably think is impossible, simply because it hasn't ever happened for you...but it has for me.
For the record, I don't like debates...and I don't use "tactics"...I'm a straightforward man who makes observations and states them as I see them, not to "get one over on you" or to "win points with the crowd". I couldn't care less about what people think of me, except I am persuaded that it is in both my best interests and everyone else's here for me not to descend into the same back-and-forth verbal warfare that usually ends up being in one of these forums.
I have a responsibility to God Almighty and His Son, Who tell me to handle you respectfully, whether or not you hate what I believe and perhaps hate me personally. So, your choice...believe me, or don't.
One question I would like to ask before I think about moving out of this thread, ( mostly because we've drifted way off topic ):
Have you always been this way to those you disagree with?
I only ask because you remind me of me...about 5 years ago.
I know a Friend and a Saviour who can take an angry man that sees everyone that disagrees with him and his understanding of Scripture, and cause that man to be more gracious towards even his enemies...I'm living proof that God works miracles, sir, and I can bear witness to this:
" For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." ( Romans 8:13-14 )
" [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." ( Galatians 5:16 )
May you spend quality time in His word and seeking His face above all else, and may God bless you in your personal life and with whatever He has for you to do.
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There is something about the theology of Calvinists that really bother those who are non cals.Mr. Mitchell,
I think I'm going to use a page out of your own book and state, "Association Fallacy". Lumping me together with everyone who calls themselves a "Calvinist", is unfair, and I'll tell you why:
I'm not a "Calvinist". I believe what the Bible says about election, predestination, calling, justification and a whole lot more. I just happen to believe passages at face value that it seems you do not.
But to use a term you are familiar with, there are two types of "Calvinists"...
1) Those who get it traditionally through men and institutions of men ( like many today do ), and
2) Those who read Scripture for themselves and understand it over time ( like William Tyndale, Jonathan Edwards, Charles Spurgeon, George Mueller and many others ).
#2 is the one you probably think is impossible, simply because it hasn't ever happened for you...but it has for me.
For the record, I don't like debates...and I don't use "tactics"...I'm a straightforward man who makes observations and states them as I see them, not to "get one over on you" or to "win points with the crowd". I couldn't care less about what people think of me, except I am persuaded that it is in both my best interests and everyone else's here for me not to descend into the same back-and-forth verbal warfare that usually ends up being in one of these forums.
I have a responsibility to God Almighty and His Son, Who tell me to handle you respectfully, whether or not you hate what I believe and perhaps hate me personally. So, your choice...believe me, or don't.
One question I would like to ask before I think about moving out of this thread, ( mostly because we've drifted way off topic ):
Have you always been this way to those you disagree with?
I only ask because you remind me of me...about 5 years ago.
I know a Friend and a Saviour who can take an angry man that sees everyone that disagrees with him and his understanding of Scripture, and cause that man to be more gracious towards even his enemies...I'm living proof that God works miracles, sir, and I can bear witness to this:
" For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." ( Romans 8:13-14 )
" [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." ( Galatians 5:16 )
May you spend quality time in His word and seeking His face above all else, and may God bless you in your personal life and with whatever He has for you to do.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
God's blessings to you sir, and to your family.