Ever heard this doctrine......?

[Yeshua1]

Well then, since I have been circumcised in both body and heart... Doesn't that make me a double Jew?... Brother Glen

Nope, a saved Gentile!

 

[David Kent]

And I said that Jesus never left Israel except as an Infant when Joseph and Mary fled to Egypt with Him to avoid the Slaughter of the Innocents by the Edomite Herod. But I agreed with Hank and others that the Great Commission is the last word on the subject. Did that answer your question?

And when he went to Tyre and Sidon, Matthew 15. He went there because there was a woman to be saved.

 

[tyndale1946]

Nope, a saved Gentile!

I know that!... Just a Brother having a little fun here... You know what?... You put the pooper in party!... Brother Glen

 

[church mouse guy]

And when he went to Tyre and Sidon, Matthew 15. He went there because there was a woman to be saved.

Thanks!

 

[Dave G]

I'm in discussion on another site with some people who are combatting a doctrine that Jesus came only to save Israel. Now, maybe I've not gotten around enough, but I'd never heard that doctrine before.

Obviously, it's false.

Just wondering if any other readers have ever heard of this doctrine, and what denomination sect, ot cult is it from.

Thanx in advance to all who respond.

Matthew 15:22-28, Romans 15:8.
Christ was the minister of grace to the house of Israel, to confirm the promises that were made to the fathers...Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
He also came so that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy.

Peter was the Apostle to the Hebrews, while Paul was the minister of the Gospel to the Gentiles... but Christ is over all and the Head of the church, His body.
Scripturally, He came to save both Jews and Gentiles through His death, burial and resurrection.

Where they are getting it is probably from one verse, and not a totality of them, IMO.

 

[loDebar]

There was/is a doctrine of British Israelis, I can't recall it exactly. from Garner Ted Armstrong. I believe he is dead and the current members disavow the doctrine. I do not recall if it is actual ethnic or spiritual descendants

In a related but different idea. I accept the ancient Welsh/British ? are from the "lost" 10 tribes of Israel. Cymra

 

[church mouse guy]

There was/is a doctrine of British Israelis, I can't recall it exactly. from Garner Ted Armstrong. I believe he is dead and the current members disavow the doctrine. I do not recall if it is actual ethnic or spiritual descendants

In a related but different idea. I accept the ancient Welsh/British ? are from the "lost" 10 tribes of Israel. Cymra

Right, he died and his son was no good. He once had a salt and pepper shaker set worth $10,000 in is lavishly furnished mansion. It was the Worldwide Church of God or something like that. They used to give away free newspapers downtown Indianapolis in street-corner boxes. A lot of Brits believed that they were the lost tribes back in the day when the empire was still going strong. It was a very strong cult in its day.

 

[loDebar]

Wikipedia said they did not continue believing as Armstrong did.

but I do believe in the ethnic line of some of the 10 lost tribes ended in Wales, etc.

 

[David Kent]

There was/is a doctrine of British Israelis, I can't recall it exactly. from Garner Ted Armstrong. I believe he is dead and the current members disavow the doctrine. I do not recall if it is actual ethnic or spiritual descendants

In a related but different idea. I accept the ancient Welsh/British ? are from the "lost" 10 tribes of Israel. Cymra

The founder of WWCoG was Herbert W Armstrong. The orriginal church he took over was Church of God 7th Day. He was not connected with the original British Isrelites who were arround years before him His Pblishing co. was Ambassador press. The BI publishing company was Covenant Publishing Co. The BIs consider the first to teach on their part was Richard Brothers, known as the Mad Prophet. He claimed to be the nephew of the almighty and that King George sholuld hand over his throne to him He was jailed as a criminal lunatic. You can tead a bit about him Here Richard Brothers - Wikipedia

Right, he died and his son was no good. He once had a salt and pepper shaker set worth $10,000 in is lavishly furnished mansion. It was the Worldwide Church of God or something like that. They used to give away free newspapers downtown Indianapolis in street-corner boxes. A lot of Brits believed that they were the lost tribes back in the day when the empire was still going strong. It was a very strong cult in its day.

I used to listen to their radio programme on Radio Luxemboug when I was a teenager it was not brodcast here at the time as we did not have commercial radio.

Wikipedia said they did not continue believing as Armstrong did.

but I do believe in the ethnic line of some of the 10 lost tribes ended in Wales, etc.

I know someone who is a member of the WWCoG. They have a meeting about 20 miles from here. They used to keep the Jewish festivals but now call them by gentile names such as Harvest Festival. He said when thyey abandonned the Arnstrong Teaching their local membership dropped from 120+ to about 20. Garner Ted Armstrong was excommunicated for heresy by his father before he died. Herbert W took over the Radio prgrammes after that.

When I commented og the WWCOG on another site, I got a lot of ads on there from the CCoG, the Continuing Church of God, who still continue his teaching, and republish his books. I do have a B.I. commentary on Danilel by Covenant Publishing Co Ltd 1941.

There are no lost tribes. Some stayed in Judah under Soloman. Cyrus took over the country of the Assyrians and his decree was all that desired to return to their country, could. Some did and some didn't. They all became absorbed into the other nations or became part of the diaspora.

 

[loDebar]

on the last part, I got to listening to Youtube Alan Wilson from Wales? on the matter of lost tribes showing up in Britian.
It was interesting, He and another guy had some ideas about old Britain, Christianity in England before Romans , 2 Arthurs, Trips to America, a 632 Comet? etc.
just interesting

 

[robycop3]

I was once a member of WWCOG while ole Herbie was alive, but the HOLY SPIRIT thankfully showed me he was a false preacher. One day I picked up a Bible & it flopped open to the revelation passages about hell's being eternal & I at once remembered Herbie preached "annihilationism", that is, the souls of the lost are annihilated when cast into hell, not remaining there alive eternally as Scripture says. Then, I began looking into other beliefs of his, such as Sabbath-keeping, where he imitated the SDA, and his several "predictions" anout the date of Jesus' return.

But let's face it - The "lost 10 tribes of Israel are SOMEWHERE, and so is David's throne. While ole Herbie's scenario is very unlikely, Scripture plainly mentions "Judah & Israel", and names the tribes in the Revelation as each having 12K people in the special 144K witnesses during the reign of the "beast". And the vast material wealth & power that the British Empire & the USA have had, plus the fact that the USA has at least as many Jews living in it as Israel does, cannot be ignored. Nor can the fact that Britain had a large hand in founding modern Israel.

But Jesus was sent first to the Jews, whom God commissioned to record His word & His laws, and from whom Jesus was born, then, to all the rest of the world. SALVATION IS OPEN TO ALL. Jesus showed this by saving anyone who came to Him in FAITH. Then, the apostles did the same. Yes, Jesus was sent to the WHOLE WORLD!

 

[David Kent]

But let's face it - The "lost 10 tribes of Israel are SOMEWHERE, and so is David's throne. While ole Herbie's scenario is very unlikely, Scripture plainly mentions "Judah & Israel", and names the tribes in the Revelation as each having 12K people in the special 144K witnesses during the reign of the "beast". And the vast material wealth & power that the British Empire & the USA have had, plus the fact that the USA has at least as many Jews living in it as Israel does, cannot be ignored. Nor can the fact that Britain had a large hand in founding modern Israel.

So you still believe some of Herbie's teaching about the so called lost tribes? There were lost of ALL tribes, because only those who wanted to return did so.

 

[David Kent]

The Welsh are Celts, the Irish are are Celts, the Scottish are are Celts, The Cornish are Celts, the Britons are Celts, Much of France was Celtish. There is a villing in Eastern France called Cemboing and when I said to a resident that it didn't sound like a very Frence name, she said "It goes back to the Celtic period."
There are also Celtic names in the Alps.

 

[Yeshua1]

I know that!... Just a Brother having a little fun here... You know what?... You put the pooper in party!... Brother Glen

Now if you were really saying, as I have read some so, that once saved God replaced your blood with Jewish blood!

 

[tyndale1946]

Now if you were really saying, as I have read some so, that once saved God replaced your blood with Jewish blood!

What I am saying is that we are ALL Jews by Grace not by Race... Brother Glen

 

[loDebar]

The Welsh are Celts, the Irish are are Celts, the Scottish are are Celts, The Cornish are Celts, the Britons are Celts, Much of France was Celtish. There is a villing in Eastern France called Cemboing and when I said to a resident that it didn't sound like a very Frence name, she said "It goes back to the Celtic period."
There are also Celtic names in the Alps.

I think Basques are Celts too
I think the Celts started in preset Czech republic or somewhere in the Alps as you say.
But I think the Cymru as Welsh are about 1200BC I think the Celts were much earlier.
look it up Alan Wilson, I think he was from Cardiff

 

[David Kent]

I think Basques are Celts too
I think the Celts started in preset Czech republic or somewhere in the Alps as you say.
But I think the Cymru as Welsh are about 1200BC I think the Celts were much earlier.
look it up Alan Wilson, I think he was from Cardiff

A celtic word you will find in Wales, England and France is 'Combe' a valley. In Welsh it is 'Cwm' There are many towns in England with Combe in their name. In France in Franch Comte, we have come across a point in a map marked 'les Combes' and nearby 'Combe au Mortes' (valley of the dead?) and a small town called Combeaufontaine,

 

[loDebar]

A celtic word you will find in Wales, England and France is 'Combe' a valley. In Welsh it is 'Cwm' There are many towns in England with Combe in their name. In France in Franch Comte, we have come across a point in a map marked 'les Combes' and nearby 'Combe au Mortes' (valley of the dead?) and a small town called Combeaufontaine,

I do not understand it to of French origin. (I am probably French Norman)

from Wikipedia
The modern Welsh name for themselves is Cymry, and Cymru is the Welsh name for Wales. These words (both of which are pronounced [ˈkəm.rɨ]) are descended from the Brythonic word combrogi, meaning "fellow-countrymen".[15] The use of the word Cymry as a self-designation derives from the location in the post-Roman Era (after the arrival of the Anglo-Saxons) of the Welsh (Brythonic-speaking) people in modern Wales as well as in northern England and southern Scotland (Yr Hen Ogledd) (English: The Old North). It emphasised that the Welsh in modern Wales and in the Hen Ogledd were one people, different from other peoples.[16] In particular, the term was not applied to the Cornish or the Breton peoples, who are of similar heritage, culture, and language to the Welsh. The word came into use as a self-description probably before the 7th century.[17] It is attested in a praise poem to Cadwallon ap Cadfan (Moliant Cadwallon, by Afan Ferddig) c. 633.[18] In Welsh literature, the word Cymry was used throughout the Middle Ages to describe the Welsh, though the older, more generic term Brythoniaid continued to be used to describe any of the Britonnic peoples (including the Welsh) and was the more common literary term until c. 1200. Thereafter Cymry prevailed as a reference to the Welsh. Until c. 1560 the word was spelt Kymry or Cymry, regardless of whether it referred to the people or their homeland.[15]

Khumric or Middle Eastern tribes origin according to this Alan Wilson

I have attached a site for you reference

Alan Wilson |

 

[agedman]

Not defending that doctrine, however not rejecting the premise of that thinking if it concerned the church being called Israel.


According to Romans 11:

1I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,a a member of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? 3“Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” 4But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

...

17But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing rootc of the olive tree, 18do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.

...

23And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

...

There is one church

Those who “wrestle with (along side, beside, as a companion of) God” (Israel) is the true church. Not that of fleshly heritage, but of the chooses of God, the Jacob (deciever) renamed, Israel.

Gentiles (who at one time opposed God) are “grafted” INTO the believing Israel. Believers are not a separate grouping as BOTH covenant or Darby Dispensers teach. Rather, the Gentile believers are separated from Israel by fleshly heritage, only.

The church is “rooted” as Romans states in believing Israel in which the believer is grafted into and not isolated from, for that set of branches broken off will be taken up again and grafted in again.

Again, I am not defending the doctrine m3ntioned in the OP but showing a portion of Scriptures that actually declare the items in issue.

 

[David Kent]

I do not understand it to of French origin. (I am probably French Norman)

The French Normans were Norsemen from Scandinavia and had only been in France for 150 years or so before the Norman invasion of England in 1066.

The Normans had some strange pronunciations of some French words which have continued into English. They pronounced G's as W's
Garde = Ward
Gardien(ne) = Warden
Gardrobe = Wardrobe
Guere = War
Gueriller = Warrier
Garrantie = Warrantee
And so on.