Every Believer Must Do Good Works and Proclaim the Gospel, Some Are Called to Teach

[christiang]

If this is true, then our salvation is based on our works - and it is no longer a gift but an earned reward or a wage. That is not Biblical.

Not so. Let us say an owner of a house hired a random person on the street to come clean in his house. This person he hired didn't do anything to deserve being hired, but out of the owner's good grace he chose to employ him and bring him into his house. Tell me, what do you suppose would happen if that person you hired decided to not clean and do his job, because he said in his heart, "the owner freely hired me, I don't have to do anything"? Do you suppose the owner would keep him employed, or fire him?

 

[annsni]

Not so. Let us say an owner of a house hired a random person on the street to come clean in his house. This person he hired didn't do anything to deserve being hired, but out of the owner's good grace he chose to employ him and bring him into his house. Tell me, what do you suppose would happen if that person you hired decided to not clean and do his job, because he said in his heart, "the owner freely hired me, I don't have to do anything"? Do you suppose the owner would keep him employed, or fire him?

"He chose to employ him"....."that person you hired decided to not clean and do his job"

That is your answer.

Let me ask you a question. Are we hired for salvation or is it a free gift? Let's reword your scenario:

An owner of a house decided to bring a young man into his home as his son and give him full benefits of being his son. He went ahead and legally adopted this son. The son lays around and watches TV all the time and doesn't do any "sonly" things. Does the father now "un-adopt" him? Let's not forget 2 Corinthians 1:22

 

[Don]

You must continue to do good works to stay saved, hence,

And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up. (Galatians 6:9 [ESV])

So I didn't misunderstand at all. What you're saying is that we are saved by grace, but remain saved by our works.

So in your theology, we can be predestined to be saved; and also predestined to lose our salvation.

Thus, the gift is one that God freely gives; and then can take away at any time, if we don't do good works.

 

[utilyan]

Is that so? Tell me, have you sold all your possessions for the sake of humility? Have you devoted your daily life to the service of others for the sake of bearing good fruit? Have you partaken in the sufferings of Jesus Christ and the apostles for the sake of the kingdom of God? It is a combination of all these things why we hope for reward. If there was no hope for reward, for resurrection, then reducing yourself to little possessions, suffering for the sake of Christ, and living in service of others by doing good works would all be in vain, for let us drink for we die tomorrow! And as Paul says, we would be the most pitiable of all men, if there was no hope for resurrection, which is part of the reward. Many of you are quick to say, "I will do good no matter if there is reward or not", as if to imply that your righteousness is greater than those who labor in faith for a future reward, but you haven't even done what is actually required to enter into the kingdom of God after believing, the selling your possessions, the suffering, and living in complete devotion to the service of others, so your "I will do good no matter what" is only in word, not in actual action. Anyone can say, "I will die for you brother", but when it comes down to doing the deed when a precarious situation presents itself, they run away like cowards. Read these other studies so you can understand what the narrow path entails, for it is not just good works,

Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit | Wisdom of God
The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished | Wisdom of God
Humility and Sell Your Possessions and Properties | Wisdom of God
Suffering, Persecution, Martyrdom, and the Discipline of God | Wisdom of God

The difference between the labor of the righteous versus the labor of the wicked is that while both work for reward, the wicked work for reward they can acquire immediately, whereas the righteous labor for reward they do not see, from faith, which is why the labor of the righteous is superior. Take for example a nurse, who helps the sick, they receive their wages for the good they do and have received full payment for what they do, as opposed to someone who sells everything they have, and gives half their possessions to the poor, in the hope of a future payment from God, that they do not see, but hope for, this is from faith, which is why it is superior.

I gave you bible verse, your stance does not work. In fact it is SIN. We do the command of God because God commands it. Not because it PAYS. A relationship with God is not a paid service, it is Father and child.



1 Corinthians 13

3And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.


I'm not gonna tell you what that verse means......how about you tell me?



God is not trying to set a par of good deeds, of well look at this guy did so much ok he earns heaven.
This all about direct attitude. Sincerity, honesty, kindness, mercy.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Not so. Let us say an owner of a house hired a random person on the street to come clean in his house. This person he hired didn't do anything to deserve being hired, but out of the owner's good grace he chose to employ him and bring him into his house. Tell me, what do you suppose would happen if that person you hired decided to not clean and do his job, because he said in his heart, "the owner freely hired me, I don't have to do anything"? Do you suppose the owner would keep him employed, or fire him?

So, we didn't do anything to merit salvation, but we must work to keep salvation? How is that not a works righteousness system?

 

[christiang]

"He chose to employ him"....."that person you hired decided to not clean and do his job"

That is your answer.

Let me ask you a question. Are we hired for salvation or is it a free gift? Let's reword your scenario:

An owner of a house decided to bring a young man into his home as his son and give him full benefits of being his son. He went ahead and legally adopted this son. The son lays around and watches TV all the time and doesn't do any "sonly" things. Does the father now "un-adopt" him? Let's not forget 2 Corinthians 1:22

Were Israelites who had witnesses the power of God and even after crossing the Red Sea not killed off in the desert because of sin and disbelief? Even if you believe, if you are not walking in obedience you will be cut off. Obedience involves doing the good works that God wants us to do. Don't fool yourself into believing that you don't have to do anything, as your churches commonly teach, and do nothing for anyone in need, and live selfish and decadent lives seeking their own pleasure.

 

[christiang]

I gave you bible verse, your stance does not work. In fact it is SIN. We do the command of God because God commands it. Not because it PAYS. A relationship with God is not a paid service, it is Father and child.



1 Corinthians 13

3And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.


I'm not gonna tell you what that verse means......how about you tell me?



God is not trying to set a par of good deeds, of well look at this guy did so much ok he earns heaven.
This all about direct attitude. Sincerity, honesty, kindness, mercy.

If you have an "attitude" of love, but see a poor starving on the street, and refuse to give him money for food, are you acting in love? You're trying to separate good works from love when one comes from the other. You give to others because you love others, hence,

Now concerning brotherly love you have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love one another, for that indeed is what you are doing to all the brothers throughout Macedonia. But we urge you, brothers, to do this more and more, (1 Thessalonians 4:9-10 [ESV])

Love is related to action, to giving. If you say you love, but then see your brother in need, and don't give him anything, you're no longer in love, no matter how mushy you think you feel inside. Let's not be stupid, and try to find loopholes in the scriptures because of your wicked desire to not want to do good works. I've seen many believers who say they love others, but when it comes to actions, they do nothing. They are despicable and worse than unbelievers, and try to find loopholes in the scriptures because they simply do not want to give, its too inconvenient.

 

[annsni]

Were Israelites who had witnesses the power of God and even after crossing the Red Sea not killed off in the desert because of sin and disbelief? Even if you believe, if you are not walking in obedience you will be cut off. Obedience involves doing the good works that God wants us to do. Don't fool yourself into believing that you don't have to do anything, as your churches commonly teach, and do nothing for anyone in need, and live selfish and decadent lives seeking their own pleasure.

I don't know of one church - even churches that do not follow the Bible - who teach such a thing. We obey because we love God - not because it earns us salvation. Our salvation CANNOT be earned - it is a gift. As soon as something is earned, it is no longer a gift. Can you tell me the Scriptures that show that a salvation that is guaranteed by the Holy Spirit is taken away and the guarantee and seal are broken? God is a god of broken covenants?

 

[christiang]

So, we didn't do anything to merit salvation, but we must work to keep salvation? How is that not a works righteousness system?

Because it is a BELIEF AND WORKS righteousness system. If you have belief and no works, your belief is dead. And if you have works, but no belief, your works are of no avail, because you need belief in Christ. You need BOTH. Don't fool yourself into thinking you only need belief. You'll be in for a big surprise, "not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter into the kingdom of God, only those who DO the will of my Father in heaven. "Doing" involves works.

 

[christiang]

I don't know of one church - even churches that do not follow the Bible - who teach such a thing. We obey because we love God - not because it earns us salvation. Our salvation CANNOT be earned - it is a gift. As soon as something is earned, it is no longer a gift. Can you tell me the Scriptures that show that a salvation that is guaranteed by the Holy Spirit is taken away and the guarantee and seal are broken? God is a god of broken covenants?

Salvation is conditional, not unconditional. Meaning if you fall away and commit murder and adultery, do you really think God will spare you, when we have clear examples in scripture when men were cut off because of disobedience? If even angels who lived in heaven were not spared, why would you be spared if you can't even feed your brother who is hungry? Even the Law of God commands us to do good works,

“If your brother becomes poor and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall support him as though he were a stranger and a sojourner, and he shall live with you. (Leviticus 25:35 [ESV])

“If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. Take care lest there be an unworthy thought in your heart and you say, ‘The seventh year, the year of release is near,’ and your eye look grudgingly on your poor brother, and you give him nothing, and he cry to the LORD against you, and you be guilty of sin. (Deuteronomy 15:7-9 [ESV])

So if you disobey these commands, you are sinning. This is why the Law is fulfilled in loving your brother as yourself,

You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD. (Leviticus 19:18 [ESV])

Because even if you stop committing sexual sin, or if you decide to wear tefillin and tzitzit as the Law commands, the complete fulfillment of the Law is actually found in doing good unto others, which is HOW you love others. Loving others isn't just some mushy feeling in the heart, it is done with actions.

 

[annsni]

So if I don't give a homeless man a dollar, I'm at risk of losing my salvation?

 

[christiang]

So if I don't give a homeless man a dollar, I'm at risk of losing my salvation?

There's a deeper problem in you if you grumble at merely having to give $1 to a homeless man. We give out of obedience to God, and because we love our neighbor. Giving to the needy are the matters of the Law that the Pharisees neglected, hence the story of the good Samaritan. Many claim to be believers and claim to have the love of Christ, but when it comes to actually showing it, they are whitewashed walls, having an appearance of being religious, but dead tombs on the inside, having no real love with actions for others. If you saw a man starving on the street would you really hesitate to give him anything because you feel like you don't have to? Its despicable. Time and time again I hear believers grumbling at having to do good works, and trying to find scriptures to justify their own wicked thoughts to not want to do anything to help anyone.

 

[annsni]

There's a deeper problem in you if you grumble at merely having to give $1 to a homeless man. We give out of obedience to God, and because we love our neighbor. Giving to the needy are the matters of the Law that the Pharisees neglected, hence the story of the good Samaritan. Many claim to be believers and claim to have the love of Christ, but when it comes to actually showing it, they are whitewashed walls, having an appearance of being religious, but dead tombs on the inside, having no real love with actions for others. If you saw a man starving on the street would you really hesitate to give him anything because you feel like you don't have to? Its despicable. Time and time again I hear believers grumbling at having to do good works, and trying to find scriptures to justify their own wicked thoughts to not want to do anything to help anyone.

Nope - I've never grumbled at having to help people and I've even gone so far as literally save someone's life after they were stabbed in the neck - and I've taken people into my home, fed the hungry and most importantly, shared the gospel with the needy. However, I don't do this to "keep" my salvation but do it because of the love of Christ in me. I do it with a heart of surrender to Christ and living in the Spirit. I could do all of that and be unsaved so it is not the works that save me but instead it is fully and undeniably just all of Christ.

 

[christiang]

Nope - I've never grumbled at having to help people and I've even gone so far as literally save someone's life after they were stabbed in the neck - and I've taken people into my home, fed the hungry and most importantly, shared the gospel with the needy. However, I don't do this to "keep" my salvation but do it because of the love of Christ in me. I do it with a heart of surrender to Christ and living in the Spirit. I could do all of that and be unsaved so it is not the works that save me but instead it is fully and undeniably just all of Christ.

So if you're doing the good works required of you then whats the problem? We know you need faith and works, for even if you have faith but no works, your faith is null as the scriptures declare. You're trying to lessen the importance of works in relation to salvation, for whatever reason.

 

[thatbrian]

"Today you will be with me in paradise." That's what Jesus said to a man who had no good works and died in that state.

If the OP is correct, we should never share the gospel of Christ with people who are terminally ill. . .

 

[christiang]

"Today you will be with me in paradise." That's what Jesus said to a man who had no good works and died in that state.

If the OP is correct, we should never share the gospel of Christ with people who are terminally ill. . .

Not everyone will be justified under the same circumstances. This man, who was about to die, was justified by merely believing. You, however, are not about to die, so it behooves you to do what Christ commanded, instead of trying to find scriptures and loopholes because you do not want to do good works. Its despicable.

 

[thatbrian]

Not everyone will be justified under the same circumstances. This man, who was about to die, was justified by merely believing. You, however, are not about to die, so it behooves you to do what Christ commanded, instead of trying to find scriptures and loopholes because you do not want to do good works. Its despicable.

First, your assumptions about me are incorrect and uncharitable. Second, if you are relying on your works to justify you, Christ is of no use to you.

 

[christiang]

First, your assumptions about me are incorrect and uncharitable. Second, if you are relying on your works to justify you, Christ is of no use to you.

How is it that you do not understand that you need both faith and works? Let me repeat, faith AND works. Again, faith AND works. One more time, faith ANDDDDD WORKS. And again, FAITH AND WORKS. Maybe you'll get it this time, FAITH AND WORKS. And again,

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead. (James 2:14-26 [ESV])

Did you get it? FAITH AND WORKS.

 

[thatbrian]

How is it that you do not understand that you need both faith and works? Let me repeat, faith AND works. Again, faith AND works. One more time, faith ANDDDDD WORKS. And again, FAITH AND WORKS. Maybe you'll get it this time, FAITH AND WORKS. And again,

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead. (James 2:14-26 [ESV])

Did you get it? FAITH AND WORKS.

Let me get on that. Would you be so kind as to tell me that quantity, please? Exactly how many good works does it take to save a man?

By the way, you seem very angry. Love, joy, peace, patience. . . where are they? The apostle Paul has an answer which likely fits. It's in the book of Galatians, chapter 4.

 

[christiang]

Let me get on that. Would you be so kind as to tell me that quantity, please? Exactly how many good works does it take to save a man?

Whenever the opportunity to do good presents itself,

If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them. (James 4:17 [NIV])