Every Believer Must Do Good Works and Proclaim the Gospel, Some Are Called to Teach

[thatbrian]

Whenever the opportunity to do good presents itself,

If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them. (James 4:17 [NIV])

So, in other words, if I love God with all of my heart, mind, and strength, and love my neighbor as do myself, without fail, I will gain eternal life. Is that correct?

 

[annsni]

So if you're doing the good works required of you then whats the problem? We know you need faith and works, for even if you have faith but no works, your faith is null as the scriptures declare. You're trying to lessen the importance of works in relation to salvation, for whatever reason.

No, it is faith which causes good works. I am making a favorite dinner for my husband because I love him. It isn't going to make our marriage valid but I do it because we are married and I love him. It is the same with works in salvation - we do it because we love God, not to earn His love. But an even better analogy is that I do things for my dad because I love him and he's my dad. But he's not my natural dad - he's my adopted dad. He chose me to be his daughter and I am and nothing can ever change that. He could not be happy with me but I'm still his daughter. Period. Even if I didn't do another work for the Lord (which would be weird because I WANT to do them), I would still be God's child because I am sealed by the guarantee of the Holy Spirit and I am indwelt with the Spirit of God. Nothing can ever change that. I cannot become a new creation then not be a new creation. It just doesn't happen.

 

[annsni]

Whenever the opportunity to do good presents itself,

If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them. (James 4:17 [NIV])

It is a sin for them and they lose their salvation and go to hell? Man, you put a lot of power in man's hands!

 

[christiang]

So, in other words, if I love God with all of my heart, mind, and strength, and love my neighbor as do myself, without fail, I will gain eternal life. Is that correct?

Indeed, for the Law is fulfilled in those two commandments. But if you do not give to your brother in need, then you are no longer in love,

If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth. (1 John 3:17-18 [NIV])

 

[christiang]

No, it is faith which causes good works. I am making a favorite dinner for my husband because I love him. It isn't going to make our marriage valid but I do it because we are married and I love him. It is the same with works in salvation - we do it because we love God, not to earn His love. But an even better analogy is that I do things for my dad because I love him and he's my dad. But he's not my natural dad - he's my adopted dad. He chose me to be his daughter and I am and nothing can ever change that. He could not be happy with me but I'm still his daughter. Period. Even if I didn't do another work for the Lord (which would be weird because I WANT to do them), I would still be God's child because I am sealed by the guarantee of the Holy Spirit and I am indwelt with the Spirit of God. Nothing can ever change that. I cannot become a new creation then not be a new creation. It just doesn't happen.

This is where you are in error, you believe your salvation is unconditional, when it is not, your salvation is conditional on your obedience, where we are commanded to do good works,

“If your brother becomes poor and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall support him as though he were a stranger and a sojourner, and he shall live with you. (Leviticus 25:35 [ESV])

“If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. Take care lest there be an unworthy thought in your heart and you say, ‘The seventh year, the year of release is near,’ and your eye look grudgingly on your poor brother, and you give him nothing, and he cry to the LORD against you, and you be guilty of sin. (Deuteronomy 15:7-9 [ESV])

Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. (Matthew 7:19 [ESV])

If you disobey, you will not be saved. In fact, you must become perfected, in this body, to attain salvation. And that only happens at the baptism of the holy spirit. If you are entertaining thoughts that you do not have to give to the poor in contradiction to the command of God where we must give, rest assured, you do not have the holy spirit, for no one truly having the holy spirit will deny the obligation of doing good works. You have foolishly deceived yourself that doing good works is optional, ultimately because you don't want to, where the scriptures clearly teach that good works are not optional.

 

[christiang]

It is a sin for them and they lose their salvation and go to hell? Man, you put a lot of power in man's hands!

It is well deserved if you think feeding someone who is starving is optional. Let me repeat that, you think feeding someone who is starving is optional. Again, let me try to get it through your head,

YOU THINK FEEDING SOMEONE WHO IS STARVING IS OPTIONAL. Do you not understand???????

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the aeonial* fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to aeonial* punishment, but the righteous to aeonial* life.” (Matthew 25:41-46 [MODIFIED-NIV])*

Interlinear Links: *αἰώνιον (aeonial), Matthew 25:41, Matthew 25:46

Believers who think feeding someone who is starving is optional, which is what "doing good works is optional" implies are absolutely despicable, and worse than unbelievers, and worthy of greater judgment.

 

[thatbrian]

Indeed, for the Law is fulfilled in those two commandments. But if you do not give to your brother in need, then you are no longer in love,

If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth. (1 John 3:17-18 [NIV])

OK. I understand. Salvation, in your view, is found in obedience to the law.

 

[utilyan]

If you have an "attitude" of love, but see a poor starving on the street, and refuse to give him money for food, are you acting in love? You're trying to separate good works from love when one comes from the other. You give to others because you love others, hence,

Now concerning brotherly love you have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love one another, for that indeed is what you are doing to all the brothers throughout Macedonia. But we urge you, brothers, to do this more and more, (1 Thessalonians 4:9-10 [ESV])

Love is related to action, to giving. If you say you love, but then see your brother in need, and don't give him anything, you're no longer in love, no matter how mushy you think you feel inside. Let's not be stupid, and try to find loopholes in the scriptures because of your wicked desire to not want to do good works. I've seen many believers who say they love others, but when it comes to actions, they do nothing. They are despicable and worse than unbelievers, and try to find loopholes in the scriptures because they simply do not want to give, its too inconvenient.

I agree lets not be stupid, lets both Learn to read English.

That's why I used the word Sincerity, concerning attitude. I already gave example of action not being to stand on its own.

I gave you a verse, now you give me its meaning.

1 Corinthians 13

3And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

Tell us the meaning of that verse. I don't think anyone can fake the meaning of the above verse with a straight face. This verse is precisely aimed at your flaw.

 

[annsni]

It is well deserved if you think feeding someone who is starving is optional. Let me repeat that, you think feeding someone who is starving is optional. Again, let me try to get it through your head,

YOU THINK FEEDING SOMEONE WHO IS STARVING IS OPTIONAL. Do you not understand???????

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the aeonial* fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to aeonial* punishment, but the righteous to aeonial* life.” (Matthew 25:41-46 [MODIFIED-NIV])*

Interlinear Links: *αἰώνιον (aeonial), Matthew 25:41, Matthew 25:46

Believers who think feeding someone who is starving is optional, which is what "doing good works is optional" implies are absolutely despicable, and worse than unbelievers, and worthy of greater judgment.

So have you fed every starving person in the world? If not, you sin and have lost your salvation.

But we see Utilyan asked you a very good question based on Scripture. I'd love to see the answer to that question.

 

[christiang]

I agree lets not be stupid, lets both Learn to read English.

That's why I used the word Sincerity, concerning attitude. I already gave example of action not being to stand on its own.

I gave you a verse, now you give me its meaning.

1 Corinthians 13

3And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

Tell us the meaning of that verse. I don't think anyone can fake the meaning of the above verse with a straight face. This verse is precisely aimed at your flaw.

I am not disputing the necessity to love, I am disputing your argument that you can love yet refuse to give food to your neighbor who is starving. Out of the two of us you are the one who loves less, because you are trying to argue about not having to do good works unto others, to demonstrate love with actions, like feeding the poor, clothing the naked, whereas I am trying to promote the opposite, bearing fruit worthy of repentance, in demonstration of love with actions, in accordance to scripture. Who do you suppose Jesus Christ would be more pleased with, the one who exclaimed on the rooftops, "I love you" to people who are starving, but didn't give them any food, or the one that had love in his heart and gave then food? Do you not realize your own wickedness in denying the need to do good unto others, where you are trying to distort these scriptures to try to excuse yourself from having to do good unto others? Its despicable.

 

[christiang]

So have you fed every starving person in the world? If not, you sin and have lost your salvation.

But we see Utilyan asked you a very good question based on Scripture. I'd love to see the answer to that question.

You are doing the same thing as the Pharisees, trying to find loopholes and test me because you ultimately do not want to have to do good works, which they also lacked in. Were there not many widows in Elijah's time, yet he was sent to only one widow? Were there not many lepers in Elisha's time, yet he was sent to only one leper?

I assure you that there were many widows in Israel in Elijah's time, when the sky was shut for three and a half years and there was a severe famine throughout the land. Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them, but to a widow in Zarephath in the region of Sidon. And there were many in Israel with leprosy in the time of Elisha the prophet, yet not one of them was cleansed--only Naaman the Syrian." (Luke 4:25-27 [NIV])

We are not called to feed every single hungry person in the world, but rather, we are called to feed every single hungry person that God brings before us.

 

[Don]

You are doing the same thing as the Pharisees, trying to find loopholes and test me because you ultimately do not want to have to do good works, which they also lacked in.

She doesn't lack for good works, or in her desire to do good works; and the only loopholes she's finding are the ones in your theology.

NNE here denies good works; where you differ is in your faith that works will earn your place in heaven, whereas others believe works are a result of salvation.

So please stop implying that anyone who challenges your presentation is trying to get out of doing good works. Please, keep on doing your good works because you fear losing your place in heaven, and I'll keep doing mine because of my place in heaven.

 

[christiang]

She doesn't lack for good works, or in her desire to do good works; and the only loopholes she's finding are the ones in your theology.

NNE here denies good works; where you differ is in your faith that works will earn your place in heaven, whereas others believe works are a result of salvation.

So please stop implying that anyone who challenges your presentation is trying to get out of doing good works. Please, keep on doing your good works because you fear losing your place in heaven, and I'll keep doing mine because of my place in heaven.

You must've not have read,

Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, (Philippians 2:12 [NIV])

 

[annsni]

bearing fruit worthy of repentance

I'm sorry but there is no such thing.

 

[annsni]

You must've not have read,

Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, (Philippians 2:12 [NIV])

Yet you forget the next part of the verse and the context which is VITAL for understanding this passage.

"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose."

Do you not see that "for it is God who works in you" - and then we work "out" what God is working in. In other words, the "work out" is not "earn" but instead it is the response to God working in us. If God is working in us and we don't work out, does God stop working in us? I just don't see that supported by Scripture.

Once again, works are a by-product of our salvation, not a cause. Our salvation is a gift, not a wage. The wages of sin is death - we earn death because we ALL sin - but the free gift of God is eternal life. Note that "free gift"?

 

[utilyan]

I am not disputing the necessity to love, I am disputing your argument that you can love yet refuse to give food to your neighbor who is starving. Out of the two of us you are the one who loves less, because you are trying to argue about not having to do good works unto others, to demonstrate love with actions, like feeding the poor, clothing the naked, whereas I am trying to promote the opposite, bearing fruit worthy of repentance, in demonstration of love with actions, in accordance to scripture. Who do you suppose Jesus Christ would be more pleased with, the one who exclaimed on the rooftops, "I love you" to people who are starving, but didn't give them any food, or the one that had love in his heart and gave then food? Do you not realize your own wickedness in denying the need to do good unto others, where you are trying to distort these scriptures to try to excuse yourself from having to do good unto others? Its despicable.

"I am not disputing the necessity to love,"

BOLOGNA!

First you said priority is SALVATION, then you kicked to faith. What I insisted from the beginning is it has to be sincere love.

Love is the highest priority.

You backed out from giving us the meaning to the verse above, Because you can do all the actions you want if it has no sincere love it is TRASH.

The scripture is CLEAR, you can demonstrate all you want, if you do not love it means nothing.

I say you HAVE TO LOVE. You try to change that to "saying love". BULL. We are talking about you have to love PERIOD.

That Guy who is paralyzed who can't do nothing, but loves in his heart is a 100 times better than that salvation seeking COWARD! Who only knows how to think about himself!

 

[christiang]

I'm sorry but there is no such thing.

You must've not have read,

but both first to those in Damascus and Jerusalem, and all the region of Judea, and to the Gentiles, I kept declaring to repent and to turn to God, doing works worthy of repentance. (Acts 26:20 [BLB])

Produce fruit worthy of repentance. (Matthew 3:8 [BSB])

 

[utilyan]

You must've not have read,

but both first to those in Damascus and Jerusalem, and all the region of Judea, and to the Gentiles, I kept declaring to repent and to turn to God, doing works worthy of repentance. (Acts 26:20 [BLB])

Produce fruit worthy of repentance. (Matthew 3:8 [BSB])

The only works that qualify is LOVE God, LOVE neighbor.

 

[christiang]

Yet you forget the next part of the verse and the context which is VITAL for understanding this passage.

"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose."

Do you not see that "for it is God who works in you" - and then we work "out" what God is working in. In other words, the "work out" is not "earn" but instead it is the response to God working in us. If God is working in us and we don't work out, does God stop working in us? I just don't see that supported by Scripture.

Once again, works are a by-product of our salvation, not a cause. Our salvation is a gift, not a wage. The wages of sin is death - we earn death because we ALL sin - but the free gift of God is eternal life. Note that "free gift"?

Have you completely gone off on a tangent to negate or discard "continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling"? Even if the following verse was talking about anything at all, bears being blue, or dogs being purple, can you not see that this passage still has the words "continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling"? But it is clear that you do not fear God, hence why you are blind to these particular words, and have brushed them off just now. Anyone who thinks feeding the hungry is optional does not fear God. The free gift comes to those who believe, that they may obey, not that they may disobey. God works inside all of us because it is he who hardens the heart, or draws closer to him.

 

[christiang]

The only works that qualify is LOVE God, LOVE neighbor.

If you see a person that is starving on the street, to where you can see his ribcage, and he asks you for money for food, are you acting in love if you give him nothing?