Everyone plant one, unless you have been divorced

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

"Not ruling his household well" Is not a phrase left open to anything under the sun. Else we should investigate the intimate practices in the house as well. This phrase is defined by the post statment: "Having his children in subjection" and there is nothing to be added to that. Anything added to that is out of context and not defined in scripture by God.

 

[guitarpreacher]

"Not ruling his household well" Is not a phrase left open to anything under the sun. Else we should investigate the intimate practices in the house as well. This phrase is defined by the post statment: "Having his children in subjection" and there is nothing to be added to that. Anything added to that is out of context and not defined in scripture by God.

But does that mean "have you ever"? For a time back in 1978 I ruled my household very poorly. Does that disqualify me now in 2007? My youngest daughter disobeyed a direct order from me and went somewhere she was forbidden to go, and then lied to me about going there. That was back in 2004. Am I disqualified because that day she was not in subjection?

 

[reformedbeliever]

I pray for you to have God's blessings and direction.

As far as Biblical requirements for a church planter, you obviously disagree, but SBC policy seems to say that a church planter has the same Biblical requirements as a pastor.
Are you saying that you think a woman could plant a church? You are saying you see no Biblical requirements.

Did I know about the strict interpretation of the NAMB? Yes. Do I agree with it? No. I do lean more to case-by-case and that it is far less relevant what one did before becoming a Christian.
If anything, my individual church is more strict in its rules. I do not agree.
But I am not leaving it or the SBC over it.

Fellow Christians who think this way are not evil or the enemy. They are striving to be Biblically faithful. And they might argue that you are trying to elevate your feelings about what you think God wants you to do above the text of Scripture. I trust that is not true in your case.
I hope your meeting goes well.

Well Karen, if you look on the BGCO website and read the requirements or the "who can plant a church", you will see that anyone can plant a church. They do not have to be a pastor. It says laymen can plant a church.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

But does that mean "have you ever"? For a time back in 1978 I ruled my household very poorly. Does that disqualify me now in 2007? My youngest daughter disobeyed a direct order from me and went somewhere she was forbidden to go, and then lied to me about going there. That was back in 2004. Am I disqualified because that day she was not in subjection?

Past and repented failures are not a disqualifying factor. And to disqualify one based on that it is not a consequence it is a judgment. There is a difference. Niether should we be adding to that scripture to include anything not clearly defined by it. Again it is not a catch all phrase to subject the candidate to personal pet peeves to the exclusion of every other aspect of the home life.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

reformedbeliever

I thank God for his mercy upon you and His presence in your life and the work of ministry you are doing. The success of your ministry will not be determined by what the SBC/NAMB does or does not do, but by God's continuing presence in it.

The policy concerning divorce is an attempt to correct many years of liberal views in the SBC. Even though I think it goes too far in some cases, I certainly wouldn't stop giving to the cooperative program over it.

peace to youraying:

So do you believe that all divorced people like all homosexuals should be cast out of all SBC churches? Why not?

 

[canadyjd]

So do you believe that all divorced people like all homosexuals should be cast out of all SBC churches? Why not?

Your question is bizarre and way off topic. Start another thread if you like.

peace to youraying:

 

[canadyjd]

"Not ruling his household well" Is not a phrase left open to anything under the sun. Else we should investigate the intimate practices in the house as well. This phrase is defined by the post statment: "Having his children in subjection" and there is nothing to be added to that. Anything added to that is out of context and not defined in scripture by God.

When Paul says nearly the same words concerning deacons, he says, (3 v.12) "Deacons must be husbands of one wife, and good managers of children and their own households."

Paul separated this statement concerning family life into two distinct but related qualifications for Deacons. It is very safe, therefore, to interpret the qualifications for Overseers in the same light.

peace to youraying:

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

When Paul says nearly the same words concerning deacons, he says, (3 v.12) "Deacons must be husbands of one wife, and good managers of children and their own households."

Paul separated this statement concerning family life into two distinct but related qualifications for Deacons. It is very safe, therefore, to interpret the qualifications for Overseers in the same light.

peace to youraying:

I am not sure what paraphrase you use but the article "and" is not found multiple times in the original languages. However to use the word "and" between children and household does not seperate the duties but is redundant.

To use "ruleth his household well" as a catch all phrase sets up the concern for every intimate detail of the household. Paul never intended for that to happen so he defined it.

 

[convicted1]

RE: Planting churches

People need to understand that God handles divorces no differently than lying, stealing, cursing, etc. To Him, a sin is a sin. It doesn't matter if you were married ten times in your sinner days, if God forgives you, your saved not matter what men or women say. Some of the churches I have been to wouldn't take someone in if they had divorced/remarried, regardless if their spouse cheated/left. They have even turned some away and told them they didn't want them. God will judge them the way they judge them. I also do not see anything wrong with MEN preaching if they have divorced. I know that some will probably climb up my back for using that statement, but scripture is scripture.

The first chapter of Titus and the third chapter of 1 Timothy lays out the requirements for Bishops and Deacons and says "The husband of one wife". If a man has been divorced/remarried ten times, when God saves him, he only has the one wife he is married to. These scriptures are telling us that to be an Bishop or Deacon, you could only have one wife to hold this position, whereas under the Old Law, men could have as many wives as they could afford to keep. In otherwords, if they had more than one wife at the same time, it is a sin according to the workings of the Grace Covenant. So I see no need in disallowing someone from planting a church that has been married more than once. That is going behind one's conversion and judging them, if you ask me. May God bless you all is my humble prayer!!

 

[reformedbeliever]

I do pastor the church I started planting. The SBC does not say who can and can not pastor the church... we remain autonomous in that aspect. The rules for planting a church say that anyone can plant a church... a layman can plant a church and have anyone they call as pastor. They planter does not have to be the pastor. Now NAMB has three requirements, that are not listed on the BGCO website. They are, no glossaliia, no alcohol, no divorce.

I'm not sure where any of these requirements are met in the Bible for church planting. The Apostle Paul was only a murderer.

 

[Salamander]

I'm glad the Lord has me busy enough to not spend countless hours on the BB to argue so much non-sense.

 

[gb93433]

Now NAMB has three requirements, that are not listed on the BGCO website. They are, no glossaliia, no alcohol, no divorce.

I'm not sure where any of these requirements are met in the Bible for church planting. The Apostle Paul was only a murderer.

The SBC is good at making up the rules as they go along. They love those extrabiblical citations that nobody can seem to find. Isn't it amazing that that the head of the IMB claims to speak in tongues?

What I find rather interesting is that the IMB and NAMB have different requirements. IMB also has different requirements for those in the U.S. than for those in other countries.

 

[reformedbeliever]

I'm glad the Lord has me busy enough to not spend countless hours on the BB to argue so much non-sense.

Lol.......... now that is funny.

 

[canadyjd]

I am not sure what paraphrase you use but the article "and" is not found multiple times in the original languages. However to use the word "and" between children and household does not seperate the duties but is redundant.

To use "ruleth his household well" as a catch all phrase sets up the concern for every intimate detail of the household. Paul never intended for that to happen so he defined it.

I usually use the New American Standard. It would not be considered a "paraphrase" by any stretch. My Greek bible does have the "and", which is "kai" in the Greek (not a definite article), in v.12.

I think your "definition" or application of "ruleth his household well", is too narrow when it is considered in the context it was written.

Just so you know, I don't interpretate it so broad as to include every intimate detail of the household.

peace to youraying:

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

I usually use the New American Standard. It would not be considered a "paraphrase" by any stretch. My Greek bible does have the "and", which is "kai" in the Greek (not a definite article), in v.12.

I think your "definition" or application of "ruleth his household well", is too narrow when it is considered in the context it was written.

Just so you know, I don't interpretate it so broad as to include every intimate detail of the household.

peace to youraying:

I did not say the and wasnt there. It isnt there multiple times.

The problem is that if we do not include every detail of the house then it must be defined. Paul did this very thing. I choose not to add to his writng on this subject.

 

[canadyjd]

The problem is that if we do not include every detail of the house then it must be defined. Paul did this very thing. I choose not to add to his writng on this subject.

And I choose to consider everything he wrote about the subject, leaving nothing out. (now, that is redundant).

I did not say the and wasnt there. It isnt there multiple times.

I don't remember saying it was there multiple times, either. I'll go back and check, just in case I misspoke.

I checked, you were correct. I quoted, "Deacons must be husbands of one wife, and good managers of children and their own households."

The "and" between "one wife" and "good managers" is not in the Greek. The NASV has the "and" in italics. "Deacons must be husbands of one wife, and good managers of children and their own households."

And so, I stand corrected.

peace to youraying:

 

[reformedbeliever]

And I choose to consider everything he wrote about the subject, leaving nothing out. (now, that is redundant).



I don't remember saying it was there multiple times, either. I'll go back and check, just in case I misspoke.

I checked, you were correct. I quoted, "Deacons must be husbands of one wife, and good managers of children and their own households."

The "and" between "one wife" and "good managers" is not in the Greek. The NASV has the "and" in italics. "Deacons must be husbands of one wife, and good managers of children and their own households."

And so, I stand corrected.

peace to youraying:

Good managers of children was a lot easier in the early church culture. Most children were married at a much younger age than they are today.

As far as managing the household, does that mean to tie your wife up if she has a habit of running around with men while you are at work? How can a husband make decisions for his wife, or be held accountable for one that has decided that family and God are no longer part of the life they desire?

 

[reformedbeliever]

Update. BGCO has decided to help us much more than originally stated. We wil continue with the SBC. If change is going to happen, it will have to happen from within. What can we affect if we are on the outside? Please pray for us. I know it is God's will that we go on as His church.

 

[canadyjd]

As far as managing the household, does that mean to tie your wife up if she has a habit of running around with men while you are at work?

No. That is unbiblical and would land you in jail.

How can a husband make decisions for his wife, or be held accountable for one that has decided that family and God are no longer part of the life they desire?

It begins with choosing the right wife, I suppose, making sure she is as devoted to serving God as you are.

If you have done that, and sometime after marriage trouble begins, then your number one priority is to be focused on saving your marriage and your family. By doing so, you will be honoring God and the importance God has placed on marriage.

peace to youraying:

 

[Salty]

I havaent read all the posts, but if it hasent been brought up;
If Paul meant a pastor could not be divorced, then why did he not use the word "divorce" instead of "the husband of one wife"

We do say we be the Bible literally, if so; do we take that portion literally!

BTW, the DOM up here does reject a church start by a divorced man for his divorce only. ie I could understand if a man has 7 or 8 divorces, or is going thur a divorce.

Salty:godisgood: