Everyone plant one, unless you have been divorced

[canadyjd]

Update. BGCO has decided to help us much more than originally stated. We wil continue with the SBC. If change is going to happen, it will have to happen from within. What can we affect if we are on the outside? Please pray for us. I know it is God's will that we go on as His church.

Wow! What an organization, that BGCO. Just a few days after the SBC says no, and you make contact with BGCO, they agreed to help you even more than they origionally stated. WOW! Are those guys fast or what? Do they even have an application process?

Wait a second; originally stated when? One day ago? Two days ago? The nature of your posts was that the SBC was "killing" your church right now. The decisions were being made right now. This thread is only a few days old. The mean ole SBC was crushing your church with it's backward/unbiblical stance on divorce.

Then, out of desparation to keep your church alive, you seek funding from BGCO instead. Then it is BGCO to the rescue! They don't care about divorce in your background. Horay!!

All the while, you slam the SBC for their position on divorce, and openly ask SBC members with divorce in their backgrounds to question their association with the SBC; while presenting the BGCO as the more biblical alternative.

Quite frankly, sir, your comments are beginning to sound disingenuous to me. This whole thread is sounding like a made up recruitment stunt for BGCO.

peace to youraying:

 

[gb93433]

It begins with choosing the right wife, I suppose, making sure she is as devoted to serving God as you are.

You would be surprised at how many men once they graduate from seminary are also handed divorce papers because their wives have no interest in ministry.

As long as a person has a good job and does what they feel comfortable doing in a church those things do not likely show up.

Too many look at ministry as a job that will give them recognition and honor rather than a lifestyle open to others.

The real question churches should ask is how many people has that future pastor reached and discipled. If the answer is zero then what makes a church think that he will do better with them serving as pastor than when he was not?

 

[reformedbeliever]

Wow! What an organization, that BGCO. Just a few days after the SBC says no, and you make contact with BGCO, they agreed to help you even more than they origionally stated. WOW! Are those guys fast or what? Do they even have an application process?

Wait a second; originally stated when? One day ago? Two days ago? The nature of your posts was that the SBC was "killing" your church right now. The decisions were being made right now. This thread is only a few days old. The mean ole SBC was crushing your church with it's backward/unbiblical stance on divorce.

Then, out of desparation to keep your church alive, you seek funding from BGCO instead. Then it is BGCO to the rescue! They don't care about divorce in your background. Horay!!

All the while, you slam the SBC for their position on divorce, and openly ask SBC members with divorce in their backgrounds to question their association with the SBC; while presenting the BGCO as the more biblical alternative.

Quite frankly, sir, your comments are beginning to sound disingenuous to me. This whole thread is sounding like a made up recruitment stunt for BGCO.

peace to youraying:

The tone of your post hardly deserves a reply. I will say that there were some major misunderstandings that occured that I have not made public here. I don't intend to do so either.
For your information, the BGCO is SBC. You should really know what you are talking about before shooting off your mouth. Very Christian of you.

 

[canadyjd]

Sir, you set the tone when you accused the SBC of "destroying" a new church start. You said your church was as good as dead, and directly blamed the SBC for killing it. You made many other inflamatory comments against the NAMB and the SBC.

Then you said, "There have been more developments, so I am waiting on a response from the BGCO. I will keep up the work, just not sure it will be a Southern Baptist work."

That indicated to me the SBC and BGCO were different organizations, and you were leaving one to join the other. Perhaps I am wrong. I don't even know what BGCO stands for. Does it mean Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma? Are you claiming the BGCO is part of the NAMB? The SBC? (no need. I checked their website myself. They are state of Oklahoma's association of Southern Baptist Churches)

And then you said the BGCO was going to help even more than orginally stated. This comment struck me as strange, since it appeared from your posts that you had just started an application process with the BGCO at the time the thread began, having been denied by NAMB.

It struck me as unlikely any application could have been processed in so short a time. Perhaps the process has been going on for some time and you just needed to vent some frustration as it was coming to a conclusion. Whatever the reason, your posts weren't particularly clear and were full of venom toward the SBC.

Perhaps I saw something in your posts that wasn't there after all.

Good luck with your new church start.

peace to youraying:

 

[reformedbeliever]

canadyjd said;

Sir, you set the tone when you accused the SBC of "destroying" a new church start.

That is exactly what would have happened if the misunderstanding had not been cleared up. The misunderstanding was not on my part.

You said your church was as good as dead, and directly blamed the SBC for killing it. You made many other inflamatory comments against the NAMB and the SBC.

Which would have been true had the misunderstanding continued. The inflamatory remarks i've made against NAMB are simply true. I stand by what I said. There are many great Godly people in the SBC. There are also some really pharasical fundamentalist.

Then you said, "There have been more developments, so I am waiting on a response from the BGCO. I will keep up the work, just not sure it will be a Southern Baptist work."

True again. After the misunderstanding was resolved, we are remaining in the SBC.

That indicated to me the SBC and BGCO were different organizations, and you were leaving one to join the other. Perhaps I am wrong. I don't even know what BGCO stands for. Does it mean Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma? Are you claiming the BGCO is part of the NAMB? The SBC? (no need. I checked their website myself. They are state of Oklahoma's association of Southern Baptist Churches)

I'm glad you have this information now. Maybe you could have asked me before you started running you mouth?

And then you said the BGCO was going to help even more than orginally stated. This comment struck me as strange, since it appeared from your posts that you had just started an application process with the BGCO at the time the thread began, having been denied by NAMB.

What made you think I had just started the process? I never said anything of the kind. We have been in the process, attended training, spent a lot of time and effort to pursue this, only to be told that divorce would not be considered by NAMB, no matter the reason. Again, you should ask before running your mouth.

It struck me as unlikely any application could have been processed in so short a time. Perhaps the process has been going on for some time and you just needed to vent some frustration as it was coming to a conclusion. Whatever the reason, your posts weren't particularly clear and were full of venom toward the SBC.

Your assumption was incorrect. I still have a lot of annimosity towards the NAMB, but if we are going to correct some bad policies, we will need to do that from inside. There are many who agree with me. You are entitled to your opinion, just cut the sarcasm, it is very unchristian.

Perhaps I saw something in your posts that wasn't there after all.

You think? Now that would be a healthy change.

Good luck with your new church start.

Why thank you. I'm sure you mean that from the bottom of your heart. If so an appology would be in order.

peace to youraying:

Well thank you. I have that supernaturally by the Holy Spirit. That does not mean we should not contend for the truth.

I hope you find peace also.

 

[canadyjd]

The inflamatory remarks i've made against NAMB are simply true. I stand by what I said. There are many great Godly people in the SBC. There are also some really pharasical fundamentalist.

You accuse me of running my mouth? Well, let's take a look at what you said.

They gladly take their divorced dollars and put them to work. Is this not double minded? Is this more narrowing of cooperation from an already pharisaical mission board?
and
Maybe if enough people hear of the unbiblical standards and rules in place within the NAMB, then changes will occur./

So, according to you the SBC is double-minded and has a pharisaical mission board, and NAMB has unbiblical standards and rules.

If you have been divorced will you keep giving them your divorced dollars?

Here, you are actively encouraging members of the SBC to question their giving to the cooperative program.

Why would I think you were seeking funding from another organization not affiliated with the SBC? How about this quote.

Thank you brother. I am interested in the other funding. Will you pm me with the information?

That seems to indicate you want funding from another source.


And then you tell me sarcasm is unChristian. But, apparently only if it someone else does it. You said...

Well it looks like the good ole SBC has destroyed this new church start. I'll not go into the details at the moment. I've been up most of the night. I can't believe such a supposedly God fearing organization has done something like this.

I'm not sure where any of these requirements are met in the Bible for church planting. The Apostle Paul was only a murderer.

That sounds like some unChristian sarcasm to me. So, you accuse the "good ole SBC" of destroying your new church and then question whether they are really a God-fearing organization.


Why on earth would you want anything to do with such an organization? Wait...here comes the answer.

There are some really Godly men who work for the church planting group of the BGCO.
and
BGCO has decided to help us much more than originally stated. We wil continue with the SBC.

Wow! All of a sudden, there are Godly men in the SBC after all. What changed your mind? They decided to give you money. What a fine judge of character you are.

So you get on a public board and spit venom at the SBC, calling them unbiblical, pharasaical and double-minded; question whether they really are a God-fearing organization, openly encourage members to stop financial support, and accuse them of actively trying to destroy a new church start.

Then, you agree to accept funding from them, the very organization you have been bad-mouthing for days.

Don't presume to lecture me, sir, on unChristian conduct or comments. Review your own posts, your own actions and words against the very people you are now taking money from and then go look in the mirror.

You will not be getting an apology from me. It anything, you should be apologizing for your own comments against the SBC on this board.

peace to youraying:

 

[reformedbeliever]

You accuse me of running my mouth? Well, let's take a look at what you said.

They gladly take their divorced dollars and put them to work. Is this not double minded? Is this more narrowing of cooperation from an already pharisaical mission board?
and
Maybe if enough people hear of the unbiblical standards and rules in place within the NAMB, then changes will occur./

So, according to you the SBC is double-minded and has a pharisaical mission board, and NAMB has unbiblical standards and rules.



Here, you are actively encouraging members of the SBC to question their giving to the cooperative program.

Why would I think you were seeking funding from another organization not affiliated with the SBC? How about this quote.




That seems to indicate you want funding from another source.


And then you tell me sarcasm is unChristian. But, apparently only if it someone else does it. You said...





That sounds like some unChristian sarcasm to me. So, you accuse the "good ole SBC" of destroying your new church and then question whether they are really a God-fearing organization.


Why on earth would you want anything to do with such an organization? Wait...here comes the answer.




Wow! All of a sudden, there are Godly men in the SBC after all. What changed your mind? They decided to give you money. What a fine judge of character you are.

So you get on a public board and spit venom at the SBC, calling them unbiblical, pharasaical and double-minded; question whether they really are a God-fearing organization, openly encourage members to stop financial support, and accuse them of actively trying to destroy a new church start.

Then, you agree to accept funding from them, the very organization you have been bad-mouthing for days.

Don't presume to lecture me, sir, on unChristian conduct or comments. Review your own posts, your own actions and words against the very people you are now taking money from and then go look in the mirror.

You will not be getting an apology from me. It anything, you should be apologizing for your own comments against the SBC on this board.

peace to youraying:

You seem to continually overlook where I stated that there was a major misunderstanding. The misunderstanding was on their part, where the application process was handed off mid stream to another church planter specialist. If you were to walk in my shoes, and many other people who have suffered the horror of divorce, i'm pretty sure you would have another opinion. I believe my divorce was a biblical divorce, but even still, it was before I was a Christian.
I really don't expect an apology from you... and really don't want one. Keep it. You can join the growing list of people I choose to ignore.

 

[gb93433]

Here, you are actively encouraging members of the SBC to question their giving to the cooperative program

The Bible teaches in Acts 17:11 that we need to verify things.

Doesn't it seems strange when when Paige Patterson made the claim that the SBC seminaries needed more money and then requested an addition be made to the president's home at SWBTS to house his books and trophy animals he shot on a safari.

Do a search on www.google.com and type in BFA and see what you find. It was all done in the name of planting churches at the expense of almost 500 million dollars loss.

Sometime do a search on and determine the relationships of former IMB trustee Russell Kaemmerling (http://www.baptiststandard.com/2001/8_6/pages/kaemmerling.html), Chuck Kelly–president of NOBTS and Paige Patterson-president of SWBTS.

Remember when it was noted that the churches of a number of the SBC leaders were not giving what the average SBC church was giving.

Take a look at http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_n13_v111/ai_15177805

 

[canadyjd]

You seem to continually overlook where I stated that there was a major misunderstanding. The misunderstanding was on their part, where the application process was handed off mid stream to another church planter specialist. If you were to walk in my shoes, and many other people who have suffered the horror of divorce, i'm pretty sure you would have another opinion. I believe my divorce was a biblical divorce, but even still, it was before I was a Christian.
I really don't expect an apology from you... and really don't want one. Keep it. You can join the growing list of people I choose to ignore.

This is not about your divorce, sir. This is about you publicly undermining the very organization you are trying to get money from, and in fact are now accepting money from. Where's your conscience, sir? How can you say those things about the SBC, and then take money from them?

If there is an unspecified "major misunderstanding", even if it was on their part, how does that justify going on a public board and accusing the SBC of actively trying to "destroy" your church start?

How does that justify going on a public board and calling the SBC "pharasaical, unbiblical, double-minded"?

How does that justify questioning whether they are really a "God-fearing" organization?

How does that justify going on a public board and encouraging members of the SBC to withhold financial support for the Cooperative Program?

Have you told the BGCO about your feelings toward the SBC? That they are unbiblical, double-minded pharisees? Have you told them you are encouraging members of the SBC to withhold financial support for the cooperative program? After all, we don't want there to be any more "major misunderstandings" do we? We want to make sure they now how those SBC dollars are being spent, don't we?

Somehow, I doubt that information made it into your application.

peace to youraying:

 

[gb93433]

How can you say those things about the SBC, and then take money from them?

How does that justify going on a public board and calling the SBC "pharasaical, unbiblical, double-minded"?

How can the SBC say they believe the Bible and taken money from a church which had a long time practice of inviting the local Mormon bishop to come and preach while claiming he was a Christian? The state SBC had known about it for many years. Even some of the leaders in that church were volunteers at the state level.

You forgot to respond to two posts earlier

 

[canadyjd]

You forgot to respond to two posts earlier

I didn't forget to respond. I chose not to respond. You obviously have an axe to grind against the SBC. That's fine. A lot of people do.

As far as I know, you aren't trying to get money from them. That is the point.

peace to youraying:

 

[gb93433]

I didn't forget to respond. I chose not to respond. You obviously have an axe to grind against the SBC. That's fine. A lot of people do.

As far as I know, you aren't trying to get money from them. That is the point.

So your point is if they have money then never criticize them?

Doesn't sound like what Acts 17:11 recommends.

 

[canadyjd]

So your point is if they have money then never criticize them? Doesn't sound like what Acts 17:11 recommends.

My point is, if you believe they are a bunch of non-God-fearing, unbiblical, double-minded pharisees that actively "destroy" new church starts, then don't ask for money from them and don't accept money from them.

My point is, don't say "there are some biblical, Godly" men in the SBC after all, just because they decided to give you money.

Criticize all you want. Debate the doctrines all you want. But if you really feel that strongly against them, it is highly hypocritical to ask for and then accept their money.

I seriously doubt the BGCO would offer the money if the person making the request was up-front and honest about his views against the convention.

peace to youraying:

 

[gb93433]

My point is, if you believe they are a bunch of non-God-fearing, unbiblical, double-minded pharisees that actively "destroy" new church starts, then don't ask for money from them and don't accept money from them.

Criticize all you want. Debate the doctrines all you want. But if you really feel that strongly against them, it is highly hypocritical to ask for and then accept their money.

You have a valid point.

Sometimes you do not know how crooked an organization is until you get there. In the first church I replanted there was the pastor of a church who said they were willing to help until he found out at the last minute that others were willing to help us. Once I was on the field he decided to cut back the amount and told me to lie to the state man. Also he did not tell the church he was pastoring. He was a former trustee at SWBTS. What was I supposed to do once I was on the field and then realized I had been lied to?

Godly people give every reason to trust them not create images and mirages.

 

[canadyjd]

Sometimes you do not know how crooked an organization is until you get there. In the first church I replanted there was the pastor of a church who said they were willing to help until he found out at the last minute that others were willing to help us. Once I was on the field he decided to cut back the amount and told me to lie to the state man. Also he did not tell the church he was pastoring. He was a former trustee at SWBTS. What was I supposed to do once I was on the field and then realized I had been lied to?

One person lying to you (not even telling his own church) does not make a crooked organization, even if he was a former trustee at SWBTS.

peace to youraying:

 

[gb93433]

One person lying to you (not even telling his own church) does not make a crooked organization, even if he was a former trustee at SWBTS.

You make it sound like priests within the RCC molesting kids does not speak for the organization. It was the organization which did not hold those child molesters accountable and covered up the problem.

Organizations are made up of people. It is the people who determine the accountability and integrity of the organization. If you will do your own research you will find there are many many more examples. People do not usually leave an organization because they trust it.

Just do a search on the BFA. Many pastors in AZ who spoke against what was going on were shunned, put down, and ignored by leadsers in the SBC. It was leaders within the SBC who were the crooked people. That same practice is going on in other states and it has had problems before.

Sometime for your own satisfaction inquire about where the Annuity Board invests its money.

 

[canadyjd]

You make it sound like priests within the RCC molesting kids does not speak for the organization. It was the organization which did not hold those child molesters accountable and covered up the problem.

For you to compare systematic pedophilia being actively covered up by the leadership within the RCC with a single pastor "lying" to you about how much money his church will give you, makes everything you say untrustworthy. If you can't tell the difference, you have no credibility at all. Everything else you say is just blather.

peace to youraying:

 

[gb93433]

For you to compare systematic pedophilia being actively covered up by the leadership within the RCC with a single pastor "lying" to you about how much money his church will give you, makes everything you say untrustworthy.

Sin is sin. The world sees and hears it and the church must clean it up if they expect to reach the world. When I lived in Ft. Worth all I had to do is read about the SBC in the newspaper. I did not need the Baptist paper.

So according to you all of the leaders in the SBC are God fearing people and nothing needs to be done?

Ever inquire where the Annuity Board invests its money?

Ever inquire why so many professors at SWBTS have taken early retirement or gone somewhere else? Ever give them a phone call and ask for yourself?

Ever inquire about what happened to Sherri Klouda and Karen Bullock at SWBTS?

Ever inquire why would Paige Patterson requested an addition be put on a home to house his trophy animals and books that three previous presidents found sufficient to live in and then request to have more money for the seminary because he claimed it was lacking funds?

Ever inquire why when Dr. Dilday was president of SWBTS the trustees reported a good evaluation and then the next day fired him? They got caught and the news reported that they were liars. One of the trusted trustees was later found to be shacking up with two ladies in his church. When the chairman of the trustees was asked why they were going to terminate Dilday. His response was because they had the votes. Basically it was because they could.

Ever inquire about why the previous registrar was removed from his position as registrar at SWBTS?


Ever inquire about the story at http://www.baptiststandard.com/2001/8_6/pages/kaemmerling.html

Ever inquire about the story of the BFA in Arizona? When confronted by a number of pastors in AZ the state leaders wrote them off and told the peope to not worry. That was not the first time something like that happened in the SBC.

Ever inquire why so many churches and people lost about 480 million dollars in the BFA scandal?

 

[gb93433]

For you to compare systematic pedophilia being actively covered up by the leadership within the RCC with a single pastor "lying" to you about how much money his church will give you, makes everything you say untrustworthy. If you can't tell the difference, you have no credibility at all. Everything else you say is just blather.

You forgot to respond to the rest of my post.

Organizations are made up of people. It is the people who determine the accountability and integrity of the organization. If you will do your own research you will find there are many many more examples. People do not usually leave an organization because they trust it.

Just do a search on the BFA. Many pastors in AZ who spoke against what was going on were shunned, put down, and ignored by leadsers in the SBC. It was leaders within the SBC who were the crooked people. That same practice is going on in other states and it has had problems before.

Sometime for your own satisfaction inquire about where the Annuity Board invests its money.

 

[canadyjd]

You forgot to respond to the rest of my post.

Organizations are made up of people. It is the people who determine the accountability and integrity of the organization. If you will do your own research you will find there are many many more examples. People do not usually leave an organization because they trust it.

Just do a search on the BFA. Many pastors in AZ who spoke against what was going on were shunned, put down, and ignored by leadsers in the SBC. It was leaders within the SBC who were the crooked people. That same practice is going on in other states and it has had problems before.

Sometime for your own satisfaction inquire about where the Annuity Board invests its money.

I would rather you not yell at me, sir. Obviously, you believe the SBC leadership is corrupt. Obviously, you believe you have been wronged in some way. Obviously, your analogy to child molestation in the RCC is inappropriate, whatever else you believe the leadership of the SBC has done.

peace to youraying: