Everyone plant one, unless you have been divorced

[gb93433]

I would rather you not yell at me, sir. Obviously, you believe the SBC leadership is corrupt. Obviously, you believe you have been wronged in some way.

Where did I yell?

When I lived in Texas I tried to reach people and constantly the news was full of leaders in the SBC and their corruption.

Certainly not all are corrupt. I would say in the past it was quite opposite of what it is today. The people trusted the leaders but not now. Political ploys have no place in God's work. I believe he is removing their presence. I am glad as long as they continue in their politics and greed.

I want to reach people not be coinfronted with the politics of the SBC at the doors of someone's home who is not a believer.

Today I live in the north and a non-Christian lady I work with seemed to know about the SBC from listening to the news. The people in the SBC should be ashamed to tolerate such worldlinesss and ungodliness in the ranks. The should maintain the highest level of accountability. Recenlty when Wade Burleson caleld for accountability some of the trustees wanted to remove him and then backed down. What he did was right or wrong. But when they realized their image was in jeopardy they backed off. They claimed there was an investigation that Burleson called for and then later it was found out that there ws nothing done. What kind of leadership is that?

There ought to be outrage by people in the SBC over such nonsense?

 

[canadyjd]

Where did I yell?

Bold faced type means you are yelling, or so I have been told.

Organizations are made up of people. It is the people who determine the accountability and integrity of the organization. If you will do your own research you will find there are many many more examples. People do not usually leave an organization because they trust it.

Just do a search on the BFA. Many pastors in AZ who spoke against what was going on were shunned, put down, and ignored by leadsers in the SBC. It was leaders within the SBC who were the crooked people. That same practice is going on in other states and it has had problems before.

Sometime for your own satisfaction inquire about where the Annuity Board invests its money.

Today I live in the north and a non-Christian lady I work with seemed to know about the SBC from listening to the news.

If the world hates you, then know it hated Jesus Christ first. What does a non-christian lady in the north, listening to a non-christian news organization have to do with problems in the SBC?

The should maintain the highest level of accountability.

Agreed.

You have made numerous accusations which indicate you have first hand knowledge of the trustees motives for actions taken and not taken; or first hand knowledge of the leadership's motives for taking some action or another (all of which are corrupt in some way).

It appears to me you have read the opponents of the conservative leadership of the SBC and believed every word they have said.

Or, perhaps you have been actively involved in the leadership of the SBC over the past 10 years or so, and do indeed have all that first hand knowledge.

Be that as it may, we are talking past each other, and nothing constructive is being accomplished. Good night, sir

peace to youraying:

 

[gb93433]

If the world hates you, then know it hated Jesus Christ first. What does a non-christian lady in the north, listening to a non-christian news organization have to do with problems in the SBC?

News about the SBC is periodically on the national news and it was on the local news when I lived in Texas. The BFA made the national news for about one year.

You have made numerous accusations which indicate you have first hand knowledge of the trustees motives for actions taken and not taken; or first hand knowledge of the leadership's motives for taking some action or another (all of which are corrupt in some way).

I do not need to judge anyone’s motives. The trustees admittance of lying was on the news at the time. It was well known around Ft. Worth at the time. It was quoted in the newspaper. It was in the state SBC paper. If you have been around the SBC long enough you wil see what happens.

It appears to me you have read the opponents of the conservative leadership of the SBC and believed every word they have said.

I did not need to read anything. I saw many things first hand and heard them first hand. I knew some personally. I know several professors who were at SWBTS. I knew several of the administrators. I had ben asked to work in the SBC twice. It was al new to me because I had never experienced such nonsense. Where I am from people were more interested in leading people to Christ and making disciples than the politics. We were far from the hub of the SBC.

Or, perhaps you have been actively involved in the leadership of the SBC over the past 10 years or so, and do indeed have all that first hand knowledge.

I was on that road and saw myself fitting in until one day I called it sin and decided it must end. I took a look back and realized what had happened. I was surprised at how far I had gone in getting sucked in. God’s not about saving the SBC. It is about giving myself away and myself decreasing so that Christ might increase.

None of the NT churches are still around. I expect the SBC will be history someday. However Jesus is not. He is alive.

God still gives grace to the humble and opposes the proud. If anyone of any organization thinks they are bigger than God then they better watch out.

 

[reformedbeliever]

My point is, if you believe they are a bunch of non-God-fearing, unbiblical, double-minded pharisees that actively "destroy" new church starts, then don't ask for money from them and don't accept money from them.

My point is, don't say "there are some biblical, Godly" men in the SBC after all, just because they decided to give you money.

Criticize all you want. Debate the doctrines all you want. But if you really feel that strongly against them, it is highly hypocritical to ask for and then accept their money.

I seriously doubt the BGCO would offer the money if the person making the request was up-front and honest about his views against the convention.

peace to youraying:

This church start is not my church, it is God's. I have never asked for money for myself. I applied for funds for the church. I do not receive nor seek a salary, and would turn it down if it was offered. I have a sufficient income, I have no need for it. Do you work for free?

I have been up front and honest all the way through the process. I have told the church planting group that I was possibly considering going non denominational. I have hid nothing. I realize this is a public bb and have hidden nothing.

I have had to swallow my pride and agree with this new church start that we will have to make changes from within. I agree that I have allowed my emotions to get the best of me. I have said some things that I maybe should not have said. I am still human after all, and I ask God to forgive me where I have failed Him. I still stand by the fact that there are many things that need to change within the SBC. If those changes do not occur, then I think the SBC will continue on the decline.

 

[reformedbeliever]

If it is hypocritical of me to seek funding for this new church start, from an organization that I've given many dollars to, then I suppose I'm a hypocrite.
Is it hypocritical to try to make changes where changes are due?
Canadyjd has tried to make me look differently than what is reality. If that is what you think you should do, then go for it. I forgive you.
Two thirds of the offereings for this church start has come from my wife's and my own pockets. I do not seek gain for myself. This church start has always been for God's glory, not my own.

 

[go2church]

Why anyone would want NAMB money and the strings it comes with is beyond me! They are a controlling bunch of freaks! My experience with NAMB has never been good, in fact we won't be taking the Easter offering this year. They waste on unneeded salaries and fancy promotions of people without much character.

 

[gb93433]

Why anyone would want NAMB money and the strings it comes with is beyond me! They are a controlling bunch of freaks! My experience with NAMB has never been good, in fact we won't be taking the Easter offering this year. They waste on unneeded salaries and fancy promotions of people without much character.

You are right. The first church I pastored was a replant and the person in charge of church planting had never planted a church himself. The next location I went to had a DOM who had never pastored a church and the person in charge of church planting had never planted a church and had only pastored for a few months. Both of them had tried to tell me how to plant a church and they were not from that area. I had lived in that area for 10 years. What I realized is that they did not have a clue about what was going and they simply repeated what they had heard in Nashville.

 

[canadyjd]

I have been up front and honest all the way through the process. I have told the church planting group that I was possibly considering going non denominational. I have hid nothing. I realize this is a public bb and have hidden nothing.

Have you told the BGCO that you have gone on a public board and said all the negative things you have said about the SBC and encouraged SBC members to withhold their "Divorce dollars" from the Cooperative program? I will take a guess and say....No, of course not.

I agree that I have allowed my emotions to get the best of me. I have said some things that I maybe should not have said.

That is fair enough. Perhaps a good lesson has been learned. Once you put your frustrations in writing and post it for all to see, its real hard to take it back.

peace to youraying:

 

[canadyjd]

If it is hypocritical of me to seek funding for this new church start, from an organization that I've given many dollars to, then I suppose I'm a hypocrite. Is it hypocritical to try to make changes where changes are due?

As I said before, it is hypocritical to accept money from people if you really believe they are a bunch of non-God-fearing, unbiblical, double-minded pharisees that actively "destroy" new church starts.

Canadyjd has tried to make me look differently than what is reality. If that is what you think you should do, then go for it. I forgive you.

If I believed for a second I had painted an unfair picture of you, I would certainly apologize and ask for your forgiveness. I repeated what you had posted. Nothing more or nothing less.

Two thirds of the offereings for this church start has come from my wife's and my own pockets. I do not seek gain for myself. This church start has always been for God's glory, not my own.

I am unsure where you saw me accusing you of seeking this money for your own personal gain.

Just so everyone who reads this will know. I hereby affirm and proclaim; I do not believe "reformedbeliever" is seeking money from the SBC for his own personal gain.

However, I do question your judgment in going on a public board and harshly criticizing an organization that you are actively seeking money from.

peace to youraying:

 

[reformedbeliever]

As I said before, it is hypocritical to accept money from people if you really believe they are a bunch of non-God-fearing, unbiblical, double-minded pharisees that actively "destroy" new church starts.



If I believed for a second I had painted an unfair picture of you, I would certainly apologize and ask for your forgiveness. I repeated what you had posted. Nothing more or nothing less.



I am unsure where you saw me accusing you of seeking this money for your own personal gain.

Just so everyone who reads this will know. I hereby affirm and proclaim; I do not believe "reformedbeliever" is seeking money from the SBC for his own personal gain.

However, I do question your judgment in going on a public board and harshly criticizing an organization that you are actively seeking money from.

peace to youraying:

Yes canadyjd... I have made my feelings known to the church planting specialists. I do not believe everyone in the SBC/NAMB are included in what I was saying. I believe that there are many unfair, unbiblical rules that are in place. If we do not make noise, then there will be no change. I intend to, along with others, attempt to make changes within the SBC NAMB. Again, there was a major misunderstanding that I will not make public. If you don't like what I post, feel free to ignore it..... or state your opinion. I'm sure there is room for many more like yourself. I'm not alone in my stance. Peace to you too.

 

[gb93433]

As I said before, it is hypocritical to accept money from people if you really believe they are a bunch of non-God-fearing, unbiblical, double-minded pharisees that actively "destroy" new church starts.

Don't forget to never accept aid or help from the U.S government. Certainly don't ever send your kids to a secular college or drive on any highways.

 

[gb93433]

I believe that there are many unfair, unbiblical rules that are in place. If we do not make noise, then there will be no change. I intend to, along with others, attempt to make changes within the SBC NAMB. .

Oh there will be change is you do not make noise. It will be more foolish spending on themselves and their glory.

How can anyone be righteous and let unrighteousness prevail?

 

[reformedbeliever]

Oh there will be change is you do not make noise. It will be more foolish spending on themselves and their glory.

How can anyone be righteous and let unrighteousness prevail?

I agree brother. Some people will just blindly follow the leader, regardless of what that leader may advocate. I will not. I will try to make changes from within. I've been encouraged to do so from some very Godly biblical people whom I admire. If that change does not come about, or at least start moving in the direction it should, I will leave. When I was ordained, I was asked if the SBC made policy or a BF&M that was unbiblical, what would I do? I told the ordination committee that I
would go somewhere else... that I would not just blindly follow a denomination.

 

[canadyjd]

If you don't like what I post, feel free to ignore it..... or state your opinion.

And so I have.

peace to youraying:

 

[canadyjd]

Don't forget to never accept aid or help from the U.S government. Certainly don't ever send your kids to a secular college or drive on any highways.

I am not surprised you would say something as silly as this, since you can see no difference between a pastor "lying" to you about how much his church will support your ministry and the systematic molestation of children in the RCC.

peace to youraying:

 

[canadyjd]

When I was ordained, I was asked if the SBC made policy or a BF&M that was unbiblical, what would I do? I told the ordination committee that I would go somewhere else... that I would not just blindly follow a denomination.

You have already proclaimed the stated policy of the SBC to be unbiblical, double-minded and pharisaical. Why not keep your word and leave? Why stay with that group? Why take money from that group?

peace to youraying:

 

[reformedbeliever]

You have already proclaimed the stated policy of the SBC to be unbiblical, double-minded and pharisaical. Why not keep your word and leave? Why stay with that group? Why take money from that group?

peace to youraying:

Why don't you leave. I am going to try to change it from within. They have not yet changed the BF&M to reflect their narrow views. When they do that..... I'll leave. Until then, looks like I will try to reform them from within.

 

[reformedbeliever]

canadyjd... it looks like all you want to do is argue. This is not productive, and I really have nothing else to say to you. I think I'll just do what I said I would do and ignore you. Peace to you.raying:

 

[canadyjd]

Why don't you leave.

I didn't tell my ordination committee I would leave the SBC if they put unbiblical policies into place. Now that you have publicly proclaimed the policies of the SBC to be not only unbiblical, but also double-minded, pharisaical, and narrow, it is a perfect opportunity for you to stand on your principles, refuse those unbiblical SBC dollars, keep your word to your ordination committee, and leave the SBC.

peace to youraying:

 

[canadyjd]

canadyjd... it looks like all you want to do is argue. This is not productive, and I really have nothing else to say to you.

I thought this was getting to be productive when you admitted you said things you shouldn't have. That isn't really apologizing to the people you are bad-mouthing, and then taking money from; but, as I said, "fair enough".

It appears now you want to justify your words and actions. I suspect your conscience will help you to see, eventually, the wrong-headedness of what you have done and are doing. I do hope you think of this every time you cash a SBC check (or accept the deposit from them) Until then....

peace to youraying: