Everything is Not Out of Control, Everything is Under God's Sovereign Control

[Brightfame52]

So you, guided by your Calvinist theories, claim that when a person sins, God is the cause of the sinning,

God is the first cause of all things, He created the beings that would sin, He didn't have to, and they couldn't have sinned if He didn't purposefully give them being and existence. So yes He is the first cause of sin being in His world, however He didn't sin, Adam and eve did, and it was His will that they sin , and they did, He didn't force them, they did it by the instigation of the devil, eve did, then Adam willfully took and ate, they acted as responsible adults, and everything happened as God scripted it.

 

[Brightfame52]

So according to your Calvinist philosophy, when a person sins, God wills the sin to happen.

Could He have prevented it ? Consider Gen 20

6 And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.

 

[Ascetic X]

God is the first cause of all things, He created the beings that would sin….So yes He is the first cause of sin being in His world….and it was His will that they sin….

God never wills for sin to happen.

God never issues commandments, then wills that the commandments be disobeyed.

Thus, you stretch God being the first cause into God wanting and causing sin to occur. If this were true, God would be contradictory to condemn and punish sin.

The afflictions that impact His people due to their sin also afflicts God, so He would not cause their sin, resulting in His own affliction.


Jeremiah 19:4,5

For they have forsaken me and made this a place of foreign gods; they have burned incense in it to gods that neither they nor their ancestors nor the kings of Judah ever knew, and they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent.

They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spoke it, neither came it into My mind.



Isaiah 63:9

In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.

 

[Brightfame52]

God never wills for sin to happen.

False, you dont know the True God

God never issues commandments, then wills that the commandments be disobeyed.

He did with Pharoah Ex 4 21

21 And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

He did with Adam. Before Adam was created, God had already purposed Christ to come into the world and redeem the elect. 1 Pet 1:18-20


18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

So explain why God didnt want Adam to sin, to disobey, when He before Adam was created, foreordained Christ to die for sin. Explain that.

 

[Ascetic X]

False, you dont know the True God

He did with Pharoah Ex 4 21

21 And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

He did with Adam. Before Adam was created, God had already purposed Christ to come into the world and redeem the elect. 1 Pet 1:18-20


18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

So explain why God didnt want Adam to sin, to disobey, when He before Adam was created, foreordained Christ to die for sin. Explain that.

Explain why you negate the holiness of God by saying He wills sin to happen.

None of your quoted verses agrees with that position.

Your claim that I do not know the true God is just another in a long line of your wild presumptions.

I try to keep this discussion focused on scripture, but you persist in personal attacks. That says a lot about your philosophy.

 

[Brightfame52]

Explain why you negate the holiness of God by saying He wills sin to happen.

Explain why you dont believe what I have posted already

 

[KenH]

Sovereign refers to the independent authority and unquestionable rulership of a king.

And who is sovereign and controls your "independent authority and unquestionable rulership" king?

Proverbs 21:1
The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD,
As the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

 

[KenH]

The parent’s sovereignty over the child does not mean the parent controls every movement of the child, or causes all the child’s actions.

The God of the Bible is not man. God is the Creator of man(including children who are born, humans don't create them, God does), not the other way around.

 

[Ben1445]

I am not relieved of my responsibility because God is absolutely sovereign. When I sin, I am the one actually committing the sin, much to my grief and shame.

But all the while every fiber of my being is under His strict direction and control. So, no worries. I can rest assured that every bit of me is under the sovereignty of God and doing exactly what He wants.
Great encouragement!

 

[KenH]

But all the while every fiber of my being is under His strict direction and control. So, no worries. I can rest assured that every bit of me is under the sovereignty of God and doing exactly what He wants.
Great encouragement!

Here is a wonderful song to answer your post.

1. Just like Paul I’ve bowed in prayer, and I’ve cried out in despair
And I've asked the Lord to take this thorn from me
But then the Savior says, My child, I won't take away this trial
But I’ll show you how to live in victory.

Chorus: I’ll give you grace when you’re weary from the journey
Grace sufficient for each trial that you face
I won't remove this thorn from you
Oh but this is what I’ll do
I’ll show you a better way I’ll give you grace.

2. I have seen what He’s done before, and I’m learning to trust Him more
For I’ve seen what the power of grace can do
Though there’s danger up ahead, I’ll remember what Jesus said
That if He won’t take me out, He’ll take me thru.

The Britton Family - "I'll Give You Grace"

 

[Believeth]

So according to your Calvinist philosophy, when a person sins, God wills the sin to happen.

Each individual commits sins of their own accord, turning them into vessels of wrath. God has the liberty to either show mercy to that vessel of wrath or to utilize them according to His will. Regarding Pharaoh, God had the option to strike him down long ago, yet He opted to allow him to remain as the means through which He would demonstrate His power and strength.

 

[37818]

.

Each individual commits sins of their own accord, turning them into vessels of wrath. God has the liberty to either show mercy to that vessel of wrath or to utilize them according to His will. Regarding Pharaoh, God had the option to strike him down long ago, yet He opted to allow him to remain as the means through which He would demonstrate His power and strength.

Those who are in the New Covenant have God's promise, per Hebrews 8:12, For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

 

[Ben1445]

Here is a wonderful song to answer your post.

1. Just like Paul I’ve bowed in prayer, and I’ve cried out in despair
And I've asked the Lord to take this thorn from me
But then the Savior says, My child, I won't take away this trial
But I’ll show you how to live in victory.

Chorus: I’ll give you grace when you’re weary from the journey
Grace sufficient for each trial that you face
I won't remove this thorn from you
Oh but this is what I’ll do
I’ll show you a better way I’ll give you grace.

2. I have seen what He’s done before, and I’m learning to trust Him more
For I’ve seen what the power of grace can do
Though there’s danger up ahead, I’ll remember what Jesus said
That if He won’t take me out, He’ll take me thru.

The Britton Family - "I'll Give You Grace"

I don’t have to have Grace. I’m just a bundle of molecules doing exactly as God controls them to do. Not a fiber of my being could ever be out of His will, even while sinning.

 

[KenH]

I don’t have to have Grace.

I am sorry to hear that you think that you don't need God's grace and mercy.

 

[Ben1445]

I am sorry to hear that you think that you don't need God's grace and mercy.

Not your kind.

I also noticed that you disingenuously removed the part that makes your idea sound ridiculous.

I have the grace and mercy that God gives. I am not presumptuous enough to believe that God is making men sin as you do when you say that there is not a spec of dust that is not doing what God wants it to do.

 

[KenH]

I also noticed that you disingenuously removed the part that makes your idea sound ridiculous.

I apologize for offending you. I ask for your forgiveness.

 

[Ben1445]

I apologize for offending you. I ask for your forgiveness.

I’m not offended. I just hope that you can one day understand that there are things that happen that God did not decree to happen, otherwise, there is no need for correction, and if no need for correction, there is no need from punishment or chastening. If no need for punishment or correction, there is no need for forgiveness or a solution to sin.
If everything is as God wants it, there is no meaning to the word correction.

 

[Believeth]

Those who are in the New Covenant have God's promise, per Hebrews 8:12, For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Agreed. Vessels of mercy are those who are in the New Covenant.

 

[KenH]

I’m not offended.

Thank you.

 

[KenH]

Proverbs 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself:
Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Proverbs 16:9
A man's heart deviseth his way:
But the LORD directeth his steps.

Proverbs 20:24
Man's goings are of the LORD;
How can a man then understand his own way?

Proverbs 21:1
The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD,
As the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Daniel 4:35 All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

James 4:13-15 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.