Evil people in churches

[Luke2427]

I've been preaching for 19 years. I've been in full ministry for 14 years. I have pastored in North Carolina (youth pastor), South Carolina and Mississippi. I stay at churches well over the national average tenure for pastors. I've been pastoring the church where I now pastor for almost five years.

I have tried for some time to define "unkingdom-minded" people as simply ignorant or immature for years. But I have come to the conclusion that, at least generally speaking, at most 100% of the time, these people are evil.

The straw that broke the camel's back for me was a phone call I received from a pastor friend who pastors up north. A man, their treasurer, who has resisted him and every idea he has had to try to reach people for Christ was revealed to be manipulating the financial report. He lied for a year and a half about what money goes where.

Numerous times I have seen it revealed later on that people who resisted me most were corrupt liars, manipulators and just down right evil people. Now, I'm not talking about people who have a different idea than mine. I'm talking about people who have NO PLAN or desire to expand the outreach of the church whatsoever and resist every effort that I attempt to implement to do so.

I have come to the conclusion that people who consistently resist efforts to reach people for Christ are evil- not just ignorant, not just immature, but evil. They are tares among the wheat, wolves in sheeps' clothing, Pharisees, liars and gossipmongerers. They are power-hungry and they love the praise of men.

They do not want things to change because they like the way the things as they are make them feel about themselves. When you emphasize outreach they begin not to look so holy. And they will hate you with satanic hatred- the same kind of hatred that drove men to spit on the Lord they had crucified.

But these evil people are our crosses to bear until the Lord plucks them from our midst and burns them along with all the other tares and branches that bore no fruit.

 

[evangelist6589]

I've been preaching for 19 years. I've been in full ministry for 14 years. I have pastored in North Carolina (youth pastor), South Carolina and Mississippi. I stay at churches well over the national average tenure for pastors. I've been pastoring the church where I now pastor for almost five years.

I have tried for some time to define "unkingdom-minded" people as simply ignorant or immature for years. But I have come to the conclusion that, at least generally speaking, at most 100% of the time, these people are evil.

The straw that broke the camel's back for me was a phone call I received from a pastor friend who pastors up north. A man, their treasurer, who has resisted him and every idea he has had to try to reach people for Christ was revealed to be manipulating the financial report. He lied for a year and a half about what money goes where.

Numerous times I have seen it revealed later on that people who resisted me most were corrupt liars, manipulators and just down right evil people. Now, I'm not talking about people who have a different idea than mine. I'm talking about people who have NO PLAN or desire to expand the outreach of the church whatsoever and resist every effort that I attempt to implement to do so.

I have come to the conclusion that people who consistently resist efforts to reach people for Christ are evil- not just ignorant, not just immature, but evil. They are tares among the wheat, wolves in sheeps' clothing, Pharisees, liars and gossipmongerers. They are power-hungry and they love the praise of men.

They do not want things to change because they like the way the things as they are make them feel about themselves. When you emphasize outreach they begin not to look so holy. And they will hate you with satanic hatred- the same kind of hatred that drove men to spit on the Lord they had crucified.

But these evil people are our crosses to bear until the Lord plucks them from our midst and burns them along with all the other tares and branches that bore no fruit.

Luke I feel for what you say. I have bitterness of my time at BJU and dealing with the legalistic types there. People that would apply different standards to me than to their friends. I am mad with a certain church where I was asked to leave, and mad about the pastor. I remember once I was riding in the car and the person driving drove down a one way street and I made a big deal about it, but he did not care that he did it nor wanted to change. But I got ratted on as being divisive and they never once heard my story. I have numerous stories to tell of that church and I am glad I was asked to leave.

I had other problems with the IFB and their hypocrisy. For example when I left the school and I had someone take over my street evangelism ministry which sadly folded and the guy who took over it loved evangelism but he had visible disabilities. The other street evangelism group said they would help out my former ministry, but they failed to do so. I had run into them from time to time in Greenville after I left BJU. I wanted to call the other leader a hypocrite and a liar to his face because he said he would help but never did.

I could go on and on, but I choose not to dwell on it, but rather don't associate with such hypocrites. I save myself anxiety as I do not worry about them anymore. Why not do the same?

 

[Luke2427]

Luke I feel for what you say. I have bitterness of my time at BJU and dealing with the legalistic types there. People that would apply different standards to me than to their friends. I am mad with a certain church where I was asked to leave, and mad about the pastor. I remember once I was riding in the car and the person driving drove down a one way street and I made a big deal about it, but he did not care that he did it nor wanted to change. But I got ratted on as being divisive and they never once heard my story. I have numerous stories to tell of that church and I am glad I was asked to leave.

I had other problems with the IFB and their hypocrisy. For example when I left the school and I had someone take over my street evangelism ministry which sadly folded and the guy who took over it loved evangelism but he had visible disabilities. The other street evangelism group said they would help out my former ministry, but they failed to do so. I had run into them from time to time in Greenville after I left BJU. I wanted to call the other leader a hypocrite and a liar to his face because he said he would help but never did.

I could go on and on, but I choose not to dwell on it, but rather don't associate with such hypocrites. I save myself anxiety as I do not worry about them anymore. Why not do the same?

I am not worried about them. I want to reveal them. Sheep stand a better chance of surviving if they can identify the tell-tale signs of a woolen-robed wolf in their midst.

Oh, and I like to make them mad because they can't help but growl and show their teeth when you do, which helps save sheep as well. I expect to hear some growling in this thread.

 

[Revmitchell]

The straw that broke the camel's back for me was a phone call I received from a pastor friend who pastors up north. A man, their treasurer, who has resisted him and every idea he has had to try to reach people for Christ was revealed to be manipulating the financial report. He lied for a year and a half about what money goes where.

I have just experienced the exact same thing. In fact the manipulated monthly finance report was a tool used against me. Only to add to that he and his wife started a gossip campaign saying we need to get rid of the preacher because all he wants to do is spend money. As of yet I have spent very little and such accusations cannot be justified. His biggest objection seemed to be when anyone wanted to spend money on the youth or outreach.

Christians can act badly but long term behavior as a practice brings into question their overall character.

 

[Luke2427]

I have just experienced the exact same thing. In fact the manipulated monthly finance report was a tool used against me. Only to add to that he and his wife started a gossip campaign saying we need to get rid of the preacher because all he wants to do is spend money. As of yet I have spent very little and such accusations cannot be justified. His biggest objection seemed to be when anyone wanted to spend money on the youth or outreach.

Christians can act badly but long term behavior as a practice brings into question their overall character.

It's everywhere, it seems. It probably always has been. Perhaps the intensification of it is indicative of a culture in decline.

The biggest issue in Christianity in our culture is not Calvinism vs Arminianism or even cessationism vs contuationism. It's tares vs wheat in evangelical churches of all theological stripes. It's people who love the Kingdom vs people who love to be king.

 

[Reformed]

The Good Shepherd is jealous over His Church. May God grant such evil people true repentance.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I have just experienced the exact same thing. In fact the manipulated monthly finance report was a tool used against me. Only to add to that he and his wife started a gossip campaign saying we need to get rid of the preacher because all he wants to do is spend money. As of yet I have spent very little and such accusations cannot be justified. His biggest objection seemed to be when anyone wanted to spend money on the youth or outreach.

Christians can act badly but long term behavior as a practice brings into question their overall character.

A church budget with responsibilities assigned to chairpersons should avoid such problems. If a chairperson needs to overspend the budget, then they come to the church for permission. As long as the chairperson stays within the budget there is no problem. A recite has to be supplied to the church treasurer.

I am interested in knowing how the treasurer manipulates the monthly financial report. If questioned he/she should have to supply recites to back up any figures questioned.

 

[Revmitchell]

A church budget with responsibilities assigned to chairpersons should avoid such problems. If a chairperson needs to overspend the budget, then they come to the church for permission. As long as the chairperson stays within the budget there is no problem. A recite has to be supplied to the church treasurer.

I am interested in knowing how the treasurer manipulates the monthly financial report. If questioned he/she should have to supply recites to back up any figures questioned.

We do not have a normal budget as most churches do. I did not decide that it was that way before I got here. It will be changed in the future. What we do is take money from general tithes and place them in designated categories. It was manipulated by showing that action as an expense and emptying out the general fund category all the while crying we are going broke because of the general fund amount. All the while there are thousands in the other designated categories.

I hope that helps and is clear.

 

[Crabtownboy]

We do not have a normal budget as most churches do. I did not decide that it was that way before I got here. It will be changed in the future. What we do is take money from general tithes and place them in designated categories. It was manipulated by showing that action as an expense and emptying out the general fund category all the while crying we are going broke because of the general fund amount. All the while there are thousands in the other designated categories.

I hope that helps and is clear.

Yes, thanks.

The system needs to be changed and tightened up so that type of abuse is not possible in the future. I bet this fellow will fight tooth and nail to avoid such a change. Of course it might require getting a new treasurer.

 

[Revmitchell]

Yes, thanks.

The system needs to be changed and tightened up so that type of abuse is not possible in the future. I bet this fellow will fight tooth and nail to avoid such a change. Of course it might require getting a new treasurer.

We are having a business meeting tonight to deal with that and more. He also became disgruntled when I got here and started opening the mail. So he rerouted things like bank statements to his house. Petty childish stuff.

 

[evangelist6589]

I am not worried about them. I want to reveal them. Sheep stand a better chance of surviving if they can identify the tell-tale signs of a woolen-robed wolf in their midst.

Oh, and I like to make them mad because they can't help but growl and show their teeth when you do, which helps save sheep as well. I expect to hear some growling in this thread.

Thats the position of a good Calvinist. So many men pleasers in churches do not want to make anyone growl nor challenge anyone, but are nothing but nice to everyone.

 

[evangelist6589]

It's everywhere, it seems. It probably always has been. Perhaps the intensification of it is indicative of a culture in decline.

The biggest issue in Christianity in our culture is not Calvinism vs Arminianism or even cessationism vs contuationism. It's tares vs wheat in evangelical churches of all theological stripes. It's people who love the Kingdom vs people who love to be king.

Which is why the evangelist has a job. I have ticked off many on the streets, and have chatted with many sincere folks. People know where I stand and know that I will plead with them. back in Greenville I had all kinds of people in the churches you mention get mad at me because I challenged their easy believism gospel and the fact they could be a false convert but only God knew. They usually did not want to talk with me, because they believed they were saved just because they attended church.

 

[SolaSaint]

I have been in many churches over the past 28 years and seems like everyone has people like this. From small to large churches, there is going to be tares who resist anything and they can do very ugly things. I know a pastor friend who was sent a very ugly letter vilifying his wife in a horrible and untrue manner, then he wiped the letter with feces and mailed it to the pastor. THAT IS EVIL, I cannot believe this person was a child of God.

Ray Comfort has a DVD on true and false conversions and it's a good video on the church today. I think we have a lot of false conversions in our churches today. Would you all agree?

 

[Revmitchell]

I have been in many churches over the past 28 years and seems like everyone has people like this. From small to large churches, there is going to be tares who resist anything and they can do very ugly things. I know a pastor friend who was sent a very ugly letter vilifying his wife in a horrible and untrue manner, then he wiped the letter with feces and mailed it to the pastor. THAT IS EVIL, I cannot believe this person was a child of God.

Ray Comfort has a DVD on true and false conversions and it's a good video on the church today. I think we have a lot of false conversions in our churches today. Would you all agree?

Dr. Ted Traylor tells of the time he made a decision about the church staff that was unpopular with a segment of the church. He received a letter in the mail suggesting they would burn his house down and signed it "Legion".

 

[evangelist6589]

I have been in many churches over the past 28 years and seems like everyone has people like this. From small to large churches, there is going to be tares who resist anything and they can do very ugly things. I know a pastor friend who was sent a very ugly letter vilifying his wife in a horrible and untrue manner, then he wiped the letter with feces and mailed it to the pastor. THAT IS EVIL, I cannot believe this person was a child of God.

Ray Comfort has a DVD on true and false conversions and it's a good video on the church today. I think we have a lot of false conversions in our churches today. Would you all agree?

It actually is a audio CD or audio download.

http://www.livingwaters.com/audio/way-of-the-master/true-and-false-conversion

 

[Crabtownboy]

Rev. I hope the business meeting went well.

 

[kyredneck]

....... I think we have a lot of false conversions in our churches today. Would you all agree?

....a logical outcome from the abracadabra regeneration that is so popular with so many.....

 

[Revmitchell]

Rev. I hope the business meeting went well.

It did. The treasurer was not there. It looks like he will be leaving. We made some significant changes last night with regard to church money and accountability. Next month we will deal with the budget.

 

[InTheLight]

Originally Posted by SolaSaint
....... I think we have a lot of false conversions in our churches today. Would you all agree?

....a logical outcome from the abracadabra regeneration that is so popular with so many.....

I'm shocked, shocked that a Calvinist would question another's salvation.

 

[Don]

Rev - as much as I actually hate saying this, you might want to keep a CLOSE eye on the church bank account(s)...as in, does anyone besides the treasurer have access to the accounts? Does it take two people, or only one to write a check or withdraw funds? Will the bank notify anyone besides the treasurer if large (or all) amounts are withdrawn?

I hate that I'm even thinking that way; but I, too, have seen/heard situations where things went sour, and suddenly the money was gone.