Evil people in churches

[Revmitchell]

Rev - as much as I actually hate saying this, you might want to keep a CLOSE eye on the church bank account(s)...as in, does anyone besides the treasurer have access to the accounts?

Nope, and he signs his wife's checks (she is the custodian). Once I got here and started opening the mail to see what was going on he had the bank statements mailed to his house.

However, last night we voted to change that.

Does it take two people, or only one to write a check or withdraw funds? Will the bank notify anyone besides the treasurer if large (or all) amounts are withdrawn?

Nope, but last night we voted to change that.

I hate that I'm even thinking that way; but I, too, have seen/heard situations where things went sour, and suddenly the money was gone.

No one wants to think he would do any of that but at the same time they can all see that this does not look good. We made a lot of changes last night. I will be calling for an audit of the books next month.

 

[gb93433]

A few months ago I gave a message to a men's group and asked them that if we wanted to destroy something or an organization what would we do. After some answers I told them that is what Satan does and we should expect that in our churches. The thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy."

 

[Luke2427]

It did. The treasurer was not there. It looks like he will be leaving. We made some significant changes last night with regard to church money and accountability. Next month we will deal with the budget.

I'm glad to hear that. I empathize. I will pray for you.

 

[Baptist Believer]

The enemy has sown weeds among the wheat. It has always been that way and will remain so until the end of the age. (Matthew 13:24-30)

Something to think deeply about is the story of Jesus speaking in the synagogue and having to deal with someone who was attending the synagogue who was demonized (Luke 4:31-37).

Why should we expect that evil people - and even demonized people - would not be church members?

The way to deal with it is not to try to uproot the weeds (Matthew 13:29-30), but make them recognizable to everyone.

It may be time to do a short series of sermons on this phenomena, as well as a careful exposition of Jesus' teaching about how we know people by their fruit. Paul's brief illustration of the fruit of the Spirit and the works of the flesh are very helpful to flesh out Jesus' teaching (Galatians 5:16-26).

When your churches are attuned to discerning who is acting in God's interest and who is working for their own gain, or the will of the evil one, your church members can exert direct pressure on those who are there simply to cause trouble.

In my own church, I have the luxury of not being on the payroll or officially part of the "staff," so I can be very direct with people who create dissension. I first invite them to lunch and give them a hearing and ask questions. That often ends it. People want to be heard and if you give them your time and full attention, they often get it out of their system.

When that doesn't work by itself, I will directly confront them regarding their assertions and the consequences of their actions. If that doesn't work, I get some trusted and reputable leaders in the church to share a meal with us and let the dissenter make his case and I provide my perspective, deferring to the others. That almost always ends it.

May God grant all the pastors on this thread the patience and strength to endure unjustified attacks.

 

[nodak]

On the other hand, not every person fighting tooth and nail against the leadership of a given pastor is evil incarnate.

It was one time our sad experience to join a conservative church.

New pastor came in with lots of changes and got opposed. The pastor is still there, the original people are mostly gone, and the church is now welcoming and moving toward affirming. (Not SBC!)

Two sides to every story.

 

[Revmitchell]

On the other hand, not every person fighting tooth and nail against the leadership of a given pastor is evil incarnate.

It was one time our sad experience to join a conservative church.

New pastor came in with lots of changes and got opposed. The pastor is still there, the original people are mostly gone, and the church is now welcoming and moving toward affirming. (Not SBC!)

Two sides to every story.

Why did I know you would chime in with something like this? Huh! go figure.

 

[nodak]

Maybe because it is true? Maybe because I still believe Baptist doctrine? That being in the pulpit doesn't guarantee one's character?

Maybe because I don't believe in Baptist "popes"?

There are always two sides to every story. In the case of this thread, it does sound like the church needs to tighten up control of the finances, but not put the preacher in charge. That is never fair to the preacher and puts him in a risky position.

But having had one preacher have an affair with a woman in the church and one impregnate a young teen not once but twice, the best way to prevent shenanigans is to have several people involved in the business of the church.

That way if you get a shyster, either preacher or layperson, there is backup and less chance for one person to do grave harm.

 

[Salty]

On the other hand, not every person fighting tooth and nail against the leadership of a given pastor is evil incarnate.

It was one time our sad experience to join a conservative church.

New pastor came in with lots of changes and got opposed. The pastor is still there, the original people are mostly gone, and the church is now welcoming and moving toward affirming. (Not SBC!)

Two sides to every story.

When I was in Germany - I started to attend an off post Baptist church - about two months later - he left (forced out?) with about 1/2 of (newer folks) the congergation. Several months later that pastor ended up in a German jail. Reason for jail was non-payment of bills to the German landlord. Part of the problem in the church was that he was spending church excessive funds without approval.

( I was TDY when the preacher left)