unprofitable
Active Member
I saw the quotation under the site Bondservants of Christ
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Exact moment you were saved???
- Thread starter Salty
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unprofitable
Active Member
I believe that John 3:8 states the life of Christ and Holy Spirit are in us before we are ever aware of it.
So I found where Paul Washer said this, he cites a pollster Barna.
At 38m in this video: Paul Washer • HeartCry Missionary Society
It's not an accurate representation of Barna's research.
unprofitable
Active Member
The loving of the brethren is especially evident in the example Christ left for us in Ephesians 5:25. "Husbands, love you wives even as Christ loved the church, and gave himself for IT." The life of Christ was evident in Moses when he made intercession for Israel in Exodus 32 and Deu 9 including the apostles and prophets loving the brethren to the extent that they laid down their lives for them. 1John 3:16: "Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us, we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
unprofitable
Active Member
How is it in errror?
unprofitable
Active Member
Looks like Washer's math is off also. One estimate says 1.14 million abortions in 2024 which would be 3,123 per day. Still a slaugher by any measure.
Ascetic X
Well-Known Member
He probably meant the Barna research organization.
Home - Barna Group
Barna Group is a Christian research organization that provides data and insights on the trends affecting faith, culture and ministry today. Explore their articles, reports, podcasts, courses and services to help you lead by faith in an ever-changing world.
www.barna.com
unprofitable
Active Member
After see the video, it is easy to see it is quite old.
Were there 'moments' before time existed?
Luke Chapter 10
20 | Nevertheless in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rejoice that your names are written in heaven. |
Revelation Chapter 13
8 | And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, every one whose name hath not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain. |
Revelation Chapter 17
8 | The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the abyss, and to go into perdition. And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, they whose name hath not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast, how that he was, and is not, and shall come. |
Ephesians Chapter 1
4 | even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love |
Ascetic X
Well-Known Member
When we were chosen is not the same as when we were saved.
God chose us before the foundation of the world — but later, at a certain point in our life, we trusted in Jesus as our personal Lord, we were grateful that He died for our sins, and we believed that God raised Jesus from the dead.
It was at this point that we were saved. Our life prior to that moment was spent as a lost, unsaved person, even though God foreknew that moment of our salvation would arrive.
unprofitable
Active Member
Definitely a "when did you realize" versus a "when were you or did you" question. Matt 13:11, "For unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but unto them, it is NOT given."
You CDS afflicted people never cease to glory in your flesh when you ought to be glorying in the Lord.
Ascetic X
Well-Known Member
I don’t belong to CDS. You pridefully glory in your erroneous theology that confuses when you were chosen with when you were saved.
Wrong. I glory in God who declares the end from the beginnig.
48 | …as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. Acts 13 |
Just so you can understand what some of us believe, K. Not trying to start an argument.
"Ordained" means to be arranged, set in order beforehand by God.
God knew who would believe and "ordained, set in order" for them to be there to hear the Word so they could be saved.
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Ascetic X
Well-Known Member
Yes. When they were ordained or foreknown came first. When they believed to be saved came later.
unprofitable
Active Member
How would you integrate Phillipians 1:29 with your theology.
For unto you it is GIVEN, in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but to suffer for his sake.
Did the Father look into the future and see who would believe then give them the faith to believe?
Both the Father and the believer cannot be the source of the faith.
The verse clearly says that the faith is given unto them, not that they believed of their own accord.
That is why the Christ is both the author and finisher of our faith, the beginning and the end.
unprofitable
Active Member
How can God look into the future if the future is not already established? And if already established so he would know to whom to give faith, who established the future that he might look into it?
This is what I believe and I catch flack from both sides, Calvinists and non-Calvinists , but so be it!
The faith is in the message of the Gospel.
Remember Paul said, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
When a person hears the Gospel that Paul preached and shame on our preachers who don't preach that same Gospel, the Holy Spirit works from that hearing making the truth of the Gospel real in the heart.
If man accepts that Gospel then the Holy Spirit provides with that conviction the faith needed to believe unto eternal life.
Paul said that, "from the heart man believes unto righteousness."
The heart is convicted, the heart believes, and righteousness is imputed through that faith.