Exodus 1:15-22

[Salty]

Where is that covered in Exodus or Deuteronomy?

post # 16

 

[canadyjd]

If someone broke into my home and I shot and killed someone - that would be self-defense - thuu not MURDER!

All murder is killing
but all killing is not murder.

So, if someone was going to harm or kill a baby it’s OK to kill them (self-defense) but if you lie/deceive them into leaving without harming anyone, that wouldn’t be accepted?

peace to you

 

[George Antonios]

Was not for their lying. But their faith. Remember Rahab, Hebrews 11:31, Joshua 2:4-5.

Exo 1:19-20: And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women...Therefore God dealt well with the midwives:

 

[atpollard]

If someone broke into my home and I shot and killed someone - that would be self-defense - thuu not MURDER!

All murder is killing
but all killing is not murder.

Where is that covered in Exodus or Deuteronomy?

post # 16

Just sayin' ...
A theological claim without any biblical support is just one man's personal opinion.

You claim "that would be self-defense" (and the Law in Florida would agree with you), but we were discussing the Law of God ... so a supporting verse would have been nice.
Your personal opinion is noted [shrug].

 

[atpollard]

Exo 1:19-20: And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women...Therefore God dealt well with the midwives:

You will need to make your point clearer. I agree with "37818" that God approved of the "faith" of the midwives.

Exodus 1:15-22 [NKJV]

15 Then the king of Egypt spoke to the Hebrew midwives, of whom the name of one was Shiphrah and the name of the other Puah; 16 and he said, “When you do the duties of a midwife for the Hebrew women, and see them on the birthstools, if it is a son, then you shall kill him; but if it is a daughter, then she shall live.” 17 But the midwives feared God, and did not do as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the male children alive. 18 So the king of Egypt called for the midwives and said to them, “Why have you done this thing, and saved the male children alive?”​

19 And the midwives said to Pharaoh, “Because the Hebrew women are not like the Egyptian women; for they are lively and give birth before the midwives come to them.”​

20 Therefore God dealt well with the midwives, and the people multiplied and grew very mighty. 21 And so it was, because the midwives feared God, that He provided households for them.​

22 So Pharaoh commanded all his people, saying, “Every son who is born you shall cast into the river, and every daughter you shall save alive.”​

From my reading it seems ... YES, they probably did lie ("saved the male children" contradicts the story that the babies were born before they arrived, and ALL OF THE BABIES arrived before a midwife could arrive seems unlikely.)

The midwives "fear of God" seems to be what is recorded and honored ... not their cleverness at lying to Pharaoh.

 

[George Antonios]

You will need to make your point clearer. I agree with "37818" that God approved of the "faith" of the midwives.

Exodus 1:15-22 [NKJV]

15 Then the king of Egypt spoke to the Hebrew midwives, of whom the name of one was Shiphrah and the name of the other Puah; 16 and he said, “When you do the duties of a midwife for the Hebrew women, and see them on the birthstools, if it is a son, then you shall kill him; but if it is a daughter, then she shall live.” 17 But the midwives feared God, and did not do as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the male children alive. 18 So the king of Egypt called for the midwives and said to them, “Why have you done this thing, and saved the male children alive?”​

19 And the midwives said to Pharaoh, “Because the Hebrew women are not like the Egyptian women; for they are lively and give birth before the midwives come to them.”​

20 Therefore God dealt well with the midwives, and the people multiplied and grew very mighty. 21 And so it was, because the midwives feared God, that He provided households for them.​

22 So Pharaoh commanded all his people, saying, “Every son who is born you shall cast into the river, and every daughter you shall save alive.”​

From my reading it seems ... YES, they probably did lie ("saved the male children" contradicts the story that the babies were born before they arrived, and ALL OF THE BABIES arrived before a midwife could arrive seems unlikely.)

The midwives "fear of God" seems to be what is recorded and honored ... not their cleverness at lying to Pharaoh.

Rahab, Samuel, the woman of Bahurim, etc. all lied to authorities and were blessed.

God doesn't need our help defending him.

 

[Aaron]

A believer has a choice when confronted.
Tell the truth.
Remain silent.

Of course I’m not claiming the mid-wives were believers, but to make application to how believers should handle the situation.

We should not worry about self preservation, nor should we ever lie.

Rahab was a believer. And it's not lying to mislead God's enemies to protect innocent life.

 

[Salty]

Just sayin' ...
A theological claim without any biblical support is just one man's personal opinion.

You claim "that would be self-defense" (and the Law in Florida would agree with you), but we were discussing the Law of God ... so a supporting verse would have been nice.
Your personal opinion is noted [shrug].

1) that would be self defense -
2) I was responding to another poster

Now, lets move on

 

[agedman]

Rahab was a believer. And it's not lying to mislead God's enemies to protect innocent life.

I'm not certain that I agree with you.

I would agree that deception is important whether one is playing a game or on the battle front.

I would also agree that the Scriptures show deception when confronting an enemy.

I would also agree that both the mid-wives and Rahab did not have the Lord Jesus Christ intimately present every moment of their lives as believers do have.

However, we do.

Therefore, if I were to be teaching the Exodus and came to the passage, in the discussion I would again try to lead the folks into understanding that lying is not tolerated by God (not all deception is lying). That if put into a situation in which others are harmed by truth telling, then it is appropriate to remain silent.

 

[Aaron]

That's a somewhat Pharisaical view. The commandment prohibits bearing false witness against one's neighbor. If the only way one can protect the life of his neighbor against someone intent on doing him harm is to mislead the malefactor, then that is a faithful act, as we plainly see before us in the Scriptures.

Love is the fulfillment of the law.

I desire mercy and not sacrifice.

 

[agedman]

That's a somewhat Pharisaical view. The commandment prohibits bearing false witness against one's neighbor. If the only way one can protect the life of his neighbor against someone intent on doing him harm is to mislead the malefactor, then that is a faithful act, as we plainly see before us in the Scriptures.

Love is the fulfillment of the law.

I desire mercy and not sacrifice.

Did not the Lord point out to the lawyer that the neighbor was not just the person next door, but the one who gives physical evidence of care? This the mid-wives and Rehab did very well.

I am not so much disputing your thinking as I am stating that the most or perhaps the best way to mislead is not to say anything.