Explaining why many people are stuck on OSAS

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Mocking other believers.

Being antagonistic.

I think someone is in danger of losing his salvation.

Never had it.

:thumbsup:

 

[steaver]

News Flash ... for Steavie and others who are :sleeping_2:

All denoms, cults, sects, etc. which propose/pretend to be Christian
have at least a few things correct in their doctrines.
Translation: none of them are 100% incorrect about everything.
.

So what then do you "abhor" about Mormonism?
Their number one main doctrine which classifies them as a cult is their works based salvation plan, which happens to be exactly as the one you hold to.

A Mormon named Mitchel answers the question about grace like this....

Mitchel - The doctrine of grace is quite simple. It is by grace that we even have the small possibility of being saved. It is because of grace that Christ came to the earth to atone for our sins and make it possible for us to return to our Father in Heaven. But it is not by grace that we are forced into heaven. We are not automatically saved because of this wonderful doctrine. We still have to do our part. Faith is not meerly enough, we must do works. The scriptures say "Faith without works is dead, being alone." And in the Book of Mormon it expands our understanding of this doctrine. "It is by grace we are saved after all we can do" (2 Nephi 25:23).

Where the made up reference from the false book of Mormon at the end says (2 Nephi 25:23) it could just as easily say (2 Evangelist7 25:23) there is absolutely no difference in what the book of Mormon says and what you are saying on this subject.

 

[Yeshua1]

Maybe it is the problem of Mark 7 where man-made tradition is used to delete the Word of God, maybe that is how "severed from Christ, fallen from Grace" Gal 5:4 is getting set aside and turned into -- "well ok but osas is in there some place" kind of thinking.

Paul was NOT stating in Galatians that saved were going to forfeit salvation, as his point being made to them was that IF they try to make themselves "more spiritual" by obeying and keeping theLaw and neglecting to grow upin grace, THAT would be faslling from grace to the Law, and to becoming as the Judaizers....

 

[Yeshua1]

So what then do you "abhor" about Mormonism?
Their number one main doctrine which classifies them as a cult is their works based salvation plan, which happens to be exactly as the one you hold to.

A Mormon named Mitchel answers the question about grace like this....



Where the made up reference from the false book of Mormon at the end says (2 Nephi 25:23) it could just as easily say (2 Evangelist7 25:23) there is absolutely no difference in what the book of Mormon says and what you are saying on this subject.

To me, seems VERY much aligned with SDA teachings!

 

[steaver]

Another testimony of a Mormon.....

Adam answered...

Grace is a gift from Heavenly Father given through His Son, Jesus Christ. The word grace, as used in the scriptures, refers primarily to enabling power and spiritual healing offered through the mercy and love of Jesus Christ. Everyone on earth experiences physical death. Through the grace of Jesus Christ, all will be resurrected and will live forever.

Because of personal choices, everyone also experiences the effects of sin. These effects are called spiritual death. No one can return to the presence of God without divine grace. Through the Atonement, we all can be forgiven of our sins; we can become clean before God. To receive this enabling power, we must obey the gospel of Jesus Christ, which includes having faith in Him, repenting of our sins, being baptized, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and trying to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ for the rest of our lives. The grace of God helps us every day. It strengthens us to do good works we could not do on our own. The Lord promised that if we humble ourselves before Him and have faith in Him, His grace will help us overcome all our personal weaknesses.

http://mormon.org/faq/beliefs-on-grace

Hmmmmm....who here sounds exactly like Adam?

 

[steaver]

Another testimony of a Mormon.....

Christina answered...

We are saved by grace, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, after all that we can do. Because we are not perfect it is only through Jesus Christ that we can return through Heavenly Father. But he asks us to have faith, repent, be baptized, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, and endure to the end. When we do this, which is all that we can do, then we are forgiven. Then we can return to our Heavenly Father.

We can see why Mormonism is classified as a cult. They have their subjects live in the fear of failure, that they better tow the line or else. Of course, their is no way they could ever know for sure if they will be saved in this life, this is why it is manifest in their lives that they do not have the Holy Spirit rebirth which testifies that they are indeed the children of God, they simply do not know, they just keep working their way to God.

 

[BobRyan]

Maybe it is the problem of Mark 7 where man-made tradition is used to delete the Word of God, maybe that is how "severed from Christ, fallen from Grace" Gal 5:4 is getting set aside and turned into -- "well ok but osas is in there some place" kind of thinking.

Paul was NOT stating in Galatians that saved were going to forfeit salvation

There is no support in all of scripture for the idea that "severed from Christ, fallen from Grace" Gal 5:4 is a description of the saints, the saved.

There is no support in all of scripture for the idea that "severed from Christ, fallen from Grace" Gal 5:4 is the condition of a lost person who fell from being lost - to being "loster" -- or that the Bible even cares about going from "lost" to "lost-er".

There is no support in all of scripture for the idea that the lost are joined to Christ - and then later severed from Christ - both states being the lost state.

his point being made to them was that IF they try to make themselves "more spiritual" by obeying and keeping theLaw and neglecting to grow upin grace, THAT would be faslling from grace to the Law, and to becoming as the Judaizers....

So then you would edit the text to say "IF you were to decide to earn salvation by works - THEN you would fall from Grace, then you would in that mythical fictional scenario be severed from Christ".

Instead of "you HAVE BEEN severed from Christ you ARE fallen from Grace".

I think I see the point of what you needed the text to say for your view to work.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[evangelist-7]

I think I see the point of what you needed the text to say for your view to work.

Roberto, perhaps you have heard about the 50+ years of dumbing down
of the American people via the education system (and other items)?

My wife, who is a Senior Electrical Engineering Analyst, was Validictorian of her
graduating class, but does not understand the meaning and value of words.
I've had to teach her basic arithmetic and some basic English.

So, how is anyone supposed to be able to understand the Bible?
Just forget it ... no way, Jose!
Only through the Holy Spirit, that's for sure!
.

 

[annsni]

Roberto, perhaps you have heard about the 50+ years of dumbing down
of the American people via the education system (and other items)?

My wife, who is a Senior Electrical Engineering Analyst, was Validictorian of her
graduating class, but does not understand the meaning and value of words.
I've had to teach her basic arithmetic and some basic English.

So, how is anyone supposed to be able to understand the Bible?
Just forget it ... no way, Jose!
Only through the Holy Spirit, that's for sure!
.

But if you sin, you don't have the Holy Spirit. But then you do good and you have Him back again. But then you don't because you lied. But then you get Him back again because you confessed.......

 

[Yeshua1]

Maybe it is the problem of Mark 7 where man-made tradition is used to delete the Word of God, maybe that is how "severed from Christ, fallen from Grace" Gal 5:4 is getting set aside and turned into -- "well ok but osas is in there some place" kind of thinking.



There is no support in all of scripture for the idea that "severed from Christ, fallen from Grace" Gal 5:4 is a description of the saints, the saved.

There is no support in all of scripture for the idea that "severed from Christ, fallen from Grace" Gal 5:4 is the condition of a lost person who fell from being lost - to being "loster" -- or that the Bible even cares about going from "lost" to "lost-er".

There is no support in all of scripture for the idea that the lost are joined to Christ - and then later severed from Christ - both states being the lost state.







So then you would edit the text to say "IF you were to decide to earn salvation by works - THEN you would fall from Grace, then you would in that mythical fictional scenario be severed from Christ".

Instead of "you HAVE BEEN severed from Christ you ARE fallen from Grace".

I think I see the point of what you needed the text to say for your view to work.

in Christ,

Bob

paul was not addressing justification in that passage, but was adressing the point that the ONLY way to have spiritual growth, becing more into image of Jesus, to get more sauctified daily, is thru relying upon the work and person of the holy spriit, NOT by keeping the Law, as they were being beguiled to doing!