Ezekiel 21:27

[robycop3]

Context is our friend. Words mean things. Prophecies must come to pass or the prophet is false. You are misunderstanding the ways of God. The crown is cast down to the ground. The throne is cast down to the ground. No one has set on the throne of David since the Babylonians dispersed Judah and no one has worn the crown. That is just a fact. The next son of David to rule on his throne and wear the crown will be Jesus Christ, after the day of the LORD judgements when he rids the world of rebels. He says so in the passage you are prooftexting.

2 Samuel 7:16 And your house and your kingdom shall be established forever before you. Your throne shall be established forever.” ’ ”

The points you are striving to make are without biblical merit. You are proof texting without context. The conclusions you are making are demonstrably wrong. There is no shame in changing your mind after being corrected. Doing so shows great character and humility.

So I suggest you change your mind. You've been corrected, not by me, but by GOD'S WORD.

Jeremiah 33:17 “For thus says the Lord: ‘David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel; 18 nor shall the priests, the Levites, lack a man to offer burnt offerings before Me, to kindle grain offerings, and to sacrifice continually.’ ”25 “Thus says the Lord: ‘If My covenant is not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth, 26 then I will cast away the descendants of Jacob and David My servant, so that I will not take any of his descendants to be rulers over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For I will cause their captives to return, and will have mercy on them.’ ”

God said Dave would NEVER lack a man to rule over Israelis. And God's word says RULERS.(plural) That means hat even after Zedekiah's fall, God would still have a descendant of Dave's ruling over Israelis elsewhere. (The Jews would be ruled by others for a long time, til 1948 AD.)

See how you are conflicted? First you said no one can know the tribal linage of those of Abraham's seed, which is true. Now, since it has been pointed out that Levites will continually offer sacrifices when this prophesy comes to pass, you are insisting that one can determine who the Levites are.

The Jews are made up of 3 tribes: Judah, Benjamin, & Levi. When Jeroboam fired the Levites as priests in his kingdom, they moved to Judah & became part of those people. Remember, I mentioned people surnamed "Cohen". That name means "priest" in Hebrew.

Now, when the Jews build a new temple, some of those men will become priests in it, & will perform the old temple rites. Right now, the Jews are breeding animals to be used in those rites. And they've built & consecrated an altar to be used in it.Don't believe those things? Just do a little Googling, and ask some Jews.

And as I said earlier, the first overturn of the throne of the 3 that are to occur before Jesus comes to take over it was when Zedekiah fell. Please tell us when the other 2 were if the throne was ended til Jesus returns.

 

[JD731]

2 Samuel 7:16 And your house and your kingdom shall be established forever before you. Your throne shall be established forever.” ’ ”


So I suggest you change your mind. You've been corrected, not by me, but by GOD'S WORD.

Jeremiah 33:17 “For thus says the Lord: ‘David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel; 18 nor shall the priests, the Levites, lack a man to offer burnt offerings before Me, to kindle grain offerings, and to sacrifice continually.’ ”25 “Thus says the Lord: ‘If My covenant is not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth, 26 then I will cast away the descendants of Jacob and David My servant, so that I will not take any of his descendants to be rulers over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For I will cause their captives to return, and will have mercy on them.’ ”

God said Dave would NEVER lack a man to rule over Israelis. And God's word says RULERS.(plural) That means hat even after Zedekiah's fall, God would still have a descendant of Dave's ruling over Israelis elsewhere. (The Jews would be ruled by others for a long time, til 1948 AD.)

If what you surmise is true, then it should not be difficult to track this throne through history. All one need do is track the Levites who have been offering sacrifices and you will identify the seed of David. Of course we know no such Levites have continuously offered sacrifices through history in gentile lands or even in Israel.

You are plainly out of context.. Now you are suggestion they will not offer sacrifices until the temple is rebuilt.

"nor shall the priests, the Levites, lack a man to offer burnt offerings before Me, to kindle grain offerings, and to sacrifice continually."’

If verse 17 means what you say it means, why doesn't verse 18 mean the same thing?

The Jews are made up of 3 tribes: Judah, Benjamin, & Levi. When Jeroboam fired the Levites as priests in his kingdom, they moved to Judah & became part of those people. Remember, I mentioned people surnamed "Cohen". That name means "priest" in Hebrew.

Now, when the Jews build a new temple, some of those men will become priests in it, & will perform the old temple rites. Right now, the Jews are breeding animals to be used in those rites. And they've built & consecrated an altar to be used in it.Don't believe those things? Just do a little Googling, and ask some Jews.

And as I said earlier, the first overturn of the throne of the 3 that are to occur before Jesus comes to take over it was when Zedekiah fell. Please tell us when the other 2 were if the throne was ended til Jesus returns

No descendent of David ruled on the throne of Israel and God focused his prophetic strain nationally on Judah from the time he proclaimed judgement on the northern 10 tribes that he called Ephraim. His judgment on them in Hosea one was "not my people" and later they were driven from the land and mixed with other peoples. From this point on God focused his redemptive work through Judah. The Northern people would not forever be forgotten but the key for them to be brought back into the fold is for them to become "children of God." Their claim of being the children of Abraham was null and void while they are out of the land. You may be sure that when they are gathered from the nations from which they are occupying when your proof text verses are realized in history, that every one retuning will have been saved previous to their return and will have the Spirit of God dwelling in them and will be of the family of God through faith in King Jesus. They will have believed the gospel of the kingdom that is preached to the whole world after the church of Jesus Christ is complete and taken away. It takes a birth to become a child of God, a new birth. All Israel will be saved at this time, meaning all that remains alive, when Jesus comes out of Zion.

That leaves Judah, who was dispersed by the Babylonians and was the beginning of the "times of the gentiles." The nation was not eradicated by these events but they were dispersed for a set time of 70 years. There was a remnant left during these years by which God would have kept his covenant promises had they believed Jeremiah and had remained in the land. But they went to Egypt and the land lay empty. The times of the gentiles just means that gentiles ruled the whole world, including ruling over the people of God. God is angry about the arrogance of the gentiles, though in his providence he allowed it. Gentile nations must answer to God for this and all those nations who have mistreated his people will suffer his vengeance in the tribulation time, a time he has designated to this end. Scores will be settled.

Judah was once again dispersed from their land in 70 AD and was out of it for 2000 years, nearly. In 1948 AD they were allowed to return and millions have returned. But Jesus said they will be dispersed one more time by the man of sin who is coming one day soon. When God deals with him and the sinners of the nations, Judah and all saved Israelites will be brought back to the land under King Jesus and then your proof text will have found fulfillment.

The things you are teaching has no biblical merit.
.

 

[robycop3]

If what you surmise is true, then it should not be difficult to track this throne through history. All one need do is track the Levites who have been offering sacrifices and you will identify the seed of David. Of course we know no such Levites have continuously offered sacrifices through history in gentile lands or even in Israel.

You are plainly out of context.. Now you are suggestion they will not offer sacrifices until the temple is rebuilt.

"nor shall the priests, the Levites, lack a man to offer burnt offerings before Me, to kindle grain offerings, and to sacrifice continually."’

If verse 17 means what you say it means, why doesn't verse 18 mean the same thing?



No descendent of David ruled on the throne of Israel and God focused his prophetic strain nationally on Judah from the time he proclaimed judgement on the northern 10 tribes that he called Ephraim. His judgment on them in Hosea one was "not my people" and later they were driven from the land and mixed with other peoples. From this point on God focused his redemptive work through Judah. The Northern people would not forever be forgotten but the key for them to be brought back into the fold is for them to become "children of God." Their claim of being the children of Abraham was null and void while they are out of the land. You may be sure that when they are gathered from the nations from which they are occupying when your proof text verses are realized in history, that every one retuning will have been saved previous to their return and will have the Spirit of God dwelling in them and will be of the family of God through faith in King Jesus. They will have believed the gospel of the kingdom that is preached to the whole world after the church of Jesus Christ is complete and taken away. It takes a birth to become a child of God, a new birth. All Israel will be saved at this time, meaning all that remains alive, when Jesus comes out of Zion.

That leaves Judah, who was dispersed by the Babylonians and was the beginning of the "times of the gentiles." The nation was not eradicated by these events but they were dispersed for a set time of 70 years. There was a remnant left during these years by which God would have kept his covenant promises had they believed Jeremiah and had remained in the land. But they went to Egypt and the land lay empty. The times of the gentiles just means that gentiles ruled the whole world, including ruling over the people of God. God is angry about the arrogance of the gentiles, though in his providence he allowed it. Gentile nations must answer to God for this and all those nations who have mistreated his people will suffer his vengeance in the tribulation time, a time he has designated to this end. Scores will be settled.

Judah was once again dispersed from their land in 70 AD and was out of it for 2000 years, nearly. In 1948 AD they were allowed to return and millions have returned. But Jesus said they will be dispersed one more time by the man of sin who is coming one day soon. When God deals with him and the sinners of the nations, Judah and all saved Israelites will be brought back to the land under King Jesus and then your proof text will have found fulfillment.

The things you are teaching has no biblical merit.
.

You simply don't believe God's word! I showed you where GOD (not robycop3) said that there'd ALWAYS be a descendant of David's ruling over Israelis, with no gaps between rulers. Thus, since Zedekiah fell, there's been some other descendant of Dave's ruling Israelis somewhere. That rulership's here now, & will be here when Jesus returns to take over it. No getting around that FACT unless you don't believe God's word.

God also said He was not abandoning the Israelis for good. And the people of the "lost tribes" are still Israelis whether or not they know it. GOD knows it & knows who they are. They're just-as-eligible to be ruled by Dave's descendant as the Jews are.

 

[JD731]

You simply don't believe God's word! I showed you where GOD (not robycop3) said that there'd ALWAYS be a descendant of David's ruling over Israelis, with no gaps between rulers. Thus, since Zedekiah fell, there's been some other descendant of Dave's ruling Israelis somewhere. That rulership's here now, & will be here when Jesus returns to take over it. No getting around that FACT unless you don't believe God's word.

God also said He was not abandoning the Israelis for good. And the people of the "lost tribes" are still Israelis whether or not they know it. GOD knows it & knows who they are. They're just-as-eligible to be ruled by Dave's descendant as the Jews are.

You are making me doubt that you have read Jer 32-33, but if you have you are convincing me that you cannot discern the truth from the words in the text. Do not accuse me of unbelief just because I rightly divide what is written. The text does not say what you claim. You are trying to build a complicated doctrine from a single verse that is taken out of context.

Judah was dispersed in AD 70 and no doubt many of them went to Asia minor where many of the descendants of the 10 tribes resided at the time of the apostles. It certainly was the interest of the apostle Paul when he began his missionary activity. All three of his missionary journeys took him through there. There was a west and east and a north and a south in his day. It was he who wrote in Romans 10:1 that his heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they might be saved.. He also wrote that he could wish that he himself were accursed from Christ for his brethren, his kinsman according to the flesh, who are Israelites. But alas, Paul was called to the gentiles but yet the heart of God for Israel echoed in his heart.

All seven of the churches that had the Revelation of Jesus Christ were located in the lone province of Asia, the chief city of which was Ephesus. This tells me much about the heart of God for his people who he had Said “in the place where it was said ye are not my people there shall ye be called the children of the living God.” Peter would write two letters to them and James wrote to them and called them the twelve tribes that are scatted abroad. John was pastor of the church of Ephesus for a time and his three letters were to “the little children,” and those of Israel were the recipients. Jude wrote his letter to them.These are those who are referred to as gentiles in Romans 9.

There is much to know but you must believe the words if you will know it.

 

[robycop3]

You are making me doubt that you have read Jer 32-33, but if you have you are convincing me that you cannot discern the truth from the words in the text. Do not accuse me of unbelief just because I rightly divide what is written. The text does not say what you claim. You are trying to build a complicated doctrine from a single verse that is taken out of context.

Judah was dispersed in AD 70 and no doubt many of them went to Asia minor where many of the descendants of the 10 tribes resided at the time of the apostles. It certainly was the interest of the apostle Paul when he began his missionary activity. All three of his missionary journeys took him through there. There was a west and east and a north and a south in his day. It was he who wrote in Romans 10:1 that his heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they might be saved.. He also wrote that he could wish that he himself were accursed from Christ for his brethren, his kinsman according to the flesh, who are Israelites. But alas, Paul was called to the gentiles but yet the heart of God for Israel echoed in his heart.

All seven of the churches that had the Revelation of Jesus Christ were located in the lone province of Asia, the chief city of which was Ephesus. This tells me much about the heart of God for his people who he had Said “in the place where it was said ye are not my people there shall ye be called the children of the living God.” Peter would write two letters to them and James wrote to them and called them the twelve tribes that are scatted abroad. John was pastor of the church of Ephesus for a time and his three letters were to “the little children,” and those of Israel were the recipients. Jude wrote his letter to them.These are those who are referred to as gentiles in Romans 9.

There is much to know but you must believe the words if you will know it.

With all due respect...
The Scriptures say just what I pointed out. In 2 Samuel 7, God proclaimed a permanent dynasty for David. He re-iterated it in Jer. 33 as He was about to remove that dynasty from among the Jews & move it to some other Israelis somewhere.

We know that was the first of the prophesied 3 overthrows of the rulership. I asked you when the other two were if that was the end of the dynasty, & you didn't answer.

Some of the 10 tribes lived as far as the Volga River. Some lived in the British Isles. Some lived in Judea. And while MOST of the jews lived in Judea, there were some in virtually every part of the Roman empire, as well as in Parthia & Asia Minor. (They were dispersed a great deal more when Hadrian booted them outta Judea in 135-136 AD.)

But at that time, somewhere, there was a descendant of Dave's ruling Israelis, whether you believe it or not. God had said there'd always be til JESUS took over that throne permanently, and, as God's word is always right, it HAS to be true.

OF COURSE, Paul's desire was for Israel to be saved. He was a Benjaminite Jew.

 

[liafailrock]

Hey robycop3: This is why I stopped debating this years ago. I mention it to those who will listen but as the saying goes with a horse and water I got tired of spinning my wheels. Where's the proof? I was often asked, to which I got tired of rewriting something like "Judah's Scepter/Joseph's Birthright" multiple times over. Asked why I believe what I did, I often jested asking if they had time for me to write a large book or dissertation on the subject. LOL There was this mistaken understanding that the subject could be satisfied in a few verses as opposed to the reality that it's an intricate plot of the Lord to work His purpose, so that entails the whole bible and a whole new way of looking at it. And most of those who disagree won't read past the first five minutes of such a book before they lay it down and comment on it. What I am saying is this. You obviously know a lot about the subject, as I do too and just rejoice and be happy that the Lord shown you this truth which I am also convinced others are not ready to accept it yet. I got the distinct impression that I was trying to force a revelation unto others out of time in a similar manner trying to hurry a woman to have a baby. It comes when it's ready. Blessings to you. And blessings to even those who disagree. The subject does not hinge on me or anyone else as what happened happened whether I was born or not.

 

[JD731]

With all due respect...
The Scriptures say just what I pointed out. In 2 Samuel 7, God proclaimed a permanent dynasty for David. He re-iterated it in Jer. 33 as He was about to remove that dynasty from among the Jews & move it to some other Israelis somewhere.

We know that was the first of the prophesied 3 overthrows of the rulership. I asked you when the other two were if that was the end of the dynasty, & you didn't answer.

Some of the 10 tribes lived as far as the Volga River. Some lived in the British Isles. Some lived in Judea. And while MOST of the jews lived in Judea, there were some in virtually every part of the Roman empire, as well as in Parthia & Asia Minor. (They were dispersed a great deal more when Hadrian booted them outta Judea in 135-136 AD.)

But at that time, somewhere, there was a descendant of Dave's ruling Israelis, whether you believe it or not. God had said there'd always be til JESUS took over that throne permanently, and, as God's word is always right, it HAS to be true.

OF COURSE, Paul's desire was for Israel to be saved. He was a Benjaminite Jew.

I want you to read the following that all the seed royal were wiped out and only one was saved by the providence of God. Meanwhile a usurping woman ruled over Judah for 6 years.

1 And when Athaliah (the daughter of Jezebel) the mother of Ahaziah saw that her son was dead, she arose and destroyed all the seed royal.
2 But Jehosheba, the daughter of king Joram, sister of Ahaziah, took Joash the son of Ahaziah, and stole him from among the king’s sons [which were] slain; and they hid him, [even] him and his nurse (he ws an infant), in the bedchamber from Athaliah, so that he was not slain.
3 And he was with her hid in the house of the LORD six years. And Athaliah did reign over the land.

4 And the seventh year Jehoiada sent and fetched the rulers over hundreds, with the captains and the guard, and brought them to him into the house of the LORD, and made a covenant with them, and took an oath of them in the house of the LORD, and shewed them the king’s son.
5 And he commanded them, saying, This [is] the thing that ye shall do; A third part of you that enter in on the sabbath shall even be keepers of the watch of the king’s house;
6 And a third part [shall be] at the gate of Sur; and a third part at the gate behind the guard: so shall ye keep the watch of the house, that it be not broken down.
7 And two parts of all you that go forth on the sabbath, even they shall keep the watch of the house of the LORD about the king.
8 And ye shall compass the king round about, every man with his weapons in his hand: and he that cometh within the ranges, let him be slain: and be ye with the king as he goeth out and as he cometh in.
9 And the captains over the hundreds did according to all [things] that Jehoiada the priest commanded: and they took every man his men that were to come in on the sabbath, with them that should go out on the sabbath, and came to Jehoiada the priest.
10 And to the captains over hundreds did the priest give king David’s spears and shields, that [were] in the temple of the LORD.
11 And the guard stood, every man with his weapons in his hand, round about the king, from the right corner of the temple to the left corner of the temple, [along] by the altar and the temple.
12 And he brought forth the king’s son, and put the crown upon him, and [gave him] the testimony; and they made him king, and anointed him; and they clapped their hands, and said, God save the king.

13 And when Athaliah heard the noise of the guard [and] of the people, she came to the people into the temple of the LORD.
14 And when she looked, behold, the king stood by a pillar, as the manner [was], and the princes and the trumpeters by the king, and all the people of the land rejoiced, and blew with trumpets: and Athaliah rent her clothes, and cried, Treason, Treason.
15 But Jehoiada the priest commanded the captains of the hundreds, the officers of the host, and said unto them, Have her forth without the ranges: and him that followeth her kill with the sword. For the priest had said, Let her not be slain in the house of the LORD.
16 And they laid hands on her; and she went by the way by the which the horses came into the king’s house: and there was she slain.

17 And Jehoiada made a covenant between the LORD and the king and the people, that they should be the LORD’S people; between the king also and the people.
18 And all the people of the land went into the house of Baal, and brake it down; his altars and his images brake they in pieces thoroughly, and slew Mattan the priest of Baal before the altars. And the priest appointed officers over the house of the LORD.
19 And he took the rulers over hundreds, and the captains, and the guard, and all the people of the land; and they brought down the king from the house of the LORD, and came by the way of the gate of the guard to the king’s house. And he sat on the throne of the kings.
20 And all the people of the land rejoiced, and the city was in quiet: and they slew Athaliah with the sword [beside] the king’s house.
21 Seven years old [was] Jehoash when he began to reign.

1 In the seventh year of Jehu Jehoash began to reign; and forty years reigned he in Jerusalem. And his mother’s name [was] Zibiah of Beersheba.

You said they never lacked a man to rule on the throne and here is a woman ruling for 6 years.

You must understand the prophetic nature of the promises concerning the throne of David, It is not what you say. Following is Jer 33

14 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.
15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this [is the name] wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.
17 ¶ For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
18 Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.

These days is a reference to the time the Righteous Branch, who is a branch in David's family tree, will take the throne. The throne will never be vacated again. David ruled over the whole house of Israel. This the righteous Branch will do.

This is so easy to see for those who will simply believe the words they read. But you will not.

 

[JD731]

Hey robycop3: This is why I stopped debating this years ago. I mention it to those who will listen but as the saying goes with a horse and water I got tired of spinning my wheels. Where's the proof? I was often asked, to which I got tired of rewriting something like "Judah's Scepter/Joseph's Birthright" multiple times over. Asked why I believe what I did, I often jested asking if they had time for me to write a large book or dissertation on the subject. LOL There was this mistaken understanding that the subject could be satisfied in a few verses as opposed to the reality that it's an intricate plot of the Lord to work His purpose, so that entails the whole bible and a whole new way of looking at it. And most of those who disagree won't read past the first five minutes of such a book before they lay it down and comment on it. What I am saying is this. You obviously know a lot about the subject, as I do too and just rejoice and be happy that the Lord shown you this truth which I am also convinced others are not ready to accept it yet. I got the distinct impression that I was trying to force a revelation unto others out of time in a similar manner trying to hurry a woman to have a baby. It comes when it's ready. Blessings to you. And blessings to even those who disagree. The subject does not hinge on me or anyone else as what happened happened whether I was born or not.

British Israelism is a false doctrine.

 

[robycop3]

Hey robycop3: This is why I stopped debating this years ago. I mention it to those who will listen but as the saying goes with a horse and water I got tired of spinning my wheels. Where's the proof? I was often asked, to which I got tired of rewriting something like "Judah's Scepter/Joseph's Birthright" multiple times over. Asked why I believe what I did, I often jested asking if they had time for me to write a large book or dissertation on the subject. LOL There was this mistaken understanding that the subject could be satisfied in a few verses as opposed to the reality that it's an intricate plot of the Lord to work His purpose, so that entails the whole bible and a whole new way of looking at it. And most of those who disagree won't read past the first five minutes of such a book before they lay it down and comment on it. What I am saying is this. You obviously know a lot about the subject, as I do too and just rejoice and be happy that the Lord shown you this truth which I am also convinced others are not ready to accept it yet. I got the distinct impression that I was trying to force a revelation unto others out of time in a similar manner trying to hurry a woman to have a baby. It comes when it's ready. Blessings to you. And blessings to even those who disagree. The subject does not hinge on me or anyone else as what happened happened whether I was born or not.

Same as other doctrines from God, we are to sow the seeds, which fall where they may. it's up to the HOLY SPIRIT to make the seeds grow.

One of the main purposes in pushing this doctrine is to help people see that Scripture is 100% correct every time, and also to see prophecy being fulfilled, to strengthen their own faith, & to give'em more tools with which to spread the Gospel & to win over skeptics so that they seek Jesus.

Sure, there's opposition, but look how men tried to stamp out Christianity, and then set up a church that tried its hardest to keep the Bible outta common people's hands. But GOD triumphed, as usual, & I believe He will triumph here, that some people will come away from this with a better understanding & belief of the truth of God's word. Don't give up the fight !

 

[robycop3]

I want you to read the following that all the seed royal were wiped out and only one was saved by the providence of God. Meanwhile a usurping woman ruled over Judah for 6 years.

1 And when Athaliah (the daughter of Jezebel) the mother of Ahaziah saw that her son was dead, she arose and destroyed all the seed royal.
2 But Jehosheba, the daughter of king Joram, sister of Ahaziah, took Joash the son of Ahaziah, and stole him from among the king’s sons [which were] slain; and they hid him, [even] him and his nurse (he ws an infant), in the bedchamber from Athaliah, so that he was not slain.
3 And he was with her hid in the house of the LORD six years. And Athaliah did reign over the land.

4 And the seventh year Jehoiada sent and fetched the rulers over hundreds, with the captains and the guard, and brought them to him into the house of the LORD, and made a covenant with them, and took an oath of them in the house of the LORD, and shewed them the king’s son.
5 And he commanded them, saying, This [is] the thing that ye shall do; A third part of you that enter in on the sabbath shall even be keepers of the watch of the king’s house;
6 And a third part [shall be] at the gate of Sur; and a third part at the gate behind the guard: so shall ye keep the watch of the house, that it be not broken down.
7 And two parts of all you that go forth on the sabbath, even they shall keep the watch of the house of the LORD about the king.
8 And ye shall compass the king round about, every man with his weapons in his hand: and he that cometh within the ranges, let him be slain: and be ye with the king as he goeth out and as he cometh in.
9 And the captains over the hundreds did according to all [things] that Jehoiada the priest commanded: and they took every man his men that were to come in on the sabbath, with them that should go out on the sabbath, and came to Jehoiada the priest.
10 And to the captains over hundreds did the priest give king David’s spears and shields, that [were] in the temple of the LORD.
11 And the guard stood, every man with his weapons in his hand, round about the king, from the right corner of the temple to the left corner of the temple, [along] by the altar and the temple.
12 And he brought forth the king’s son, and put the crown upon him, and [gave him] the testimony; and they made him king, and anointed him; and they clapped their hands, and said, God save the king.

13 And when Athaliah heard the noise of the guard [and] of the people, she came to the people into the temple of the LORD.
14 And when she looked, behold, the king stood by a pillar, as the manner [was], and the princes and the trumpeters by the king, and all the people of the land rejoiced, and blew with trumpets: and Athaliah rent her clothes, and cried, Treason, Treason.
15 But Jehoiada the priest commanded the captains of the hundreds, the officers of the host, and said unto them, Have her forth without the ranges: and him that followeth her kill with the sword. For the priest had said, Let her not be slain in the house of the LORD.
16 And they laid hands on her; and she went by the way by the which the horses came into the king’s house: and there was she slain.

17 And Jehoiada made a covenant between the LORD and the king and the people, that they should be the LORD’S people; between the king also and the people.
18 And all the people of the land went into the house of Baal, and brake it down; his altars and his images brake they in pieces thoroughly, and slew Mattan the priest of Baal before the altars. And the priest appointed officers over the house of the LORD.
19 And he took the rulers over hundreds, and the captains, and the guard, and all the people of the land; and they brought down the king from the house of the LORD, and came by the way of the gate of the guard to the king’s house. And he sat on the throne of the kings.
20 And all the people of the land rejoiced, and the city was in quiet: and they slew Athaliah with the sword [beside] the king’s house.
21 Seven years old [was] Jehoash when he began to reign.

1 In the seventh year of Jehu Jehoash began to reign; and forty years reigned he in Jerusalem. And his mother’s name [was] Zibiah of Beersheba.

You said they never lacked a man to rule on the throne and here is a woman ruling for 6 years.

You must understand the prophetic nature of the promises concerning the throne of David, It is not what you say. Following is Jer 33

14 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.
15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this [is the name] wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.
17 ¶ For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
18 Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.

These days is a reference to the time the Righteous Branch, who is a branch in David's family tree, will take the throne. The throne will never be vacated again. David ruled over the whole house of Israel. This the righteous Branch will do.

This is so easy to see for those who will simply believe the words they read. But you will not.

There was not a complete lack nor break here. Athaliah was Ahab's daughter, while Joash was the king's son, although an infant when Athaliah took over. I knew this was coming; this argument has been used before. Remember, the Jews of that time would not have accepted Athaliah's rulership were she not also a descendant of David's.

 

[robycop3]

British Israelism is a false doctrine.

Remember, I said emphatically, in BIG BOLD LETTERS in the OP that I'm NOT a BI! Try READING a little bit!

But the fact remains that somewhere on earth, there's a descendant of David's ruling over some Israelis. Do YOU have a candidate, or are you gonna keep denying what God's word plainly says?

 

[JD731]

Remember, I said emphatically, in BIG BOLD LETTERS in the OP that I'm NOT a BI! Try READING a little bit!

But the fact remains that somewhere on earth, there's a descendant of David's ruling over some Israelis. Do YOU have a candidate, or are you gonna keep denying what God's word plainly says?

We will be able to spot him by the priests who are offering sacrifices according to the law, will we not?

You are not an "admitted BI" but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ..................

No other Baptist believer, a true Baptist, alive today will make the silly argument you are making. You are advancing a cult mentality by refusing correction on a single verse taken out of context, that affects countless other doctrines going forward. The fact you refuse logical and reasonable and contextual biblical correction is troubling.

 

[JD731]

There was not a complete lack nor break here. Athaliah was Ahab's daughter, while Joash was the king's son, although an infant when Athaliah took over. I knew this was coming; this argument has been used before. Remember, the Jews of that time would not have accepted Athaliah's rulership were she not also a descendant of David's.

You are defeating your own argument. Athaliah was a WOMAN. and she did not live "in those days" when this prophecy from which you took your theology came.


14 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.
15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The Lord our righteousness.
17 For thus saith the Lord; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
18 Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.

This prophecy has not yet come to pass and those days have not arrived yet. Somehow you have felt it necessary to lift this prophecy from those days and put it in former days. This is not right.

Read the promise and the good thing in the previous verses, going all the way back into chapter 32. The Branch of David is an everlasting King. The promises are dependent upon a righteous King sitting on the throne. Judgement and righteousness? David did not even do that when he sat on the throne. Remember Uriah?

Stop. Think.

 

[liafailrock]

Same as other doctrines from God, we are to sow the seeds, which fall where they may. it's up to the HOLY SPIRIT to make the seeds grow.

One of the main purposes in pushing this doctrine is to help people see that Scripture is 100% correct every time, and also to see prophecy being fulfilled, to strengthen their own faith, & to give'em more tools with which to spread the Gospel & to win over skeptics so that they seek Jesus.

Sure, there's opposition, but look how men tried to stamp out Christianity, and then set up a church that tried its hardest to keep the Bible outta common people's hands. But GOD triumphed, as usual, & I believe He will triumph here, that some people will come away from this with a better understanding & belief of the truth of God's word. Don't give up the fight !

Yes, that's true. I did not want to give the impression that I said nothing about this teaching, either. I simply meant that I tend to not waste too much energy any longer with those who will not listen and rather to those more on the fence who are still searching for answers. The thing is, while people flail their arms (even Christians) asking what is going on lately, I was going around for awhile now long before a pandemic saying things like "I can sense the ungodliness increasing". Because of knowing who we are I could see it coming. Interestingly, Jonathan Cahn compares the ancient history of Israel and what is happening to the USA today, but stops short of actually calling us Israel. But at least with the former, he's correct. Another compared Trump to Jeroboam 2. Brought seeming prosperity and morality to the nation so there's time to repent before the fall. Now we are sinking deeper in the mire.

 

[JD731]

Some interesting information regarding the prophecy in Jer 33. This prophecy is considering the whole house of Israel, which consists of all 12 tribes and other good things God has planned for them. In or about 930 BC 10 of the tribes seceded from the united kingdom and left this family in two distinct nations with each having their own line of kings, and often in their history at war with one another. The family of David, who had been promised that his seed would rule, obviously did not rule over the whole house of Israel after 930 BC. The prophecy was not that his seed would rule over a tribe or two. The descendants of David ruled over Judah and Benjamin. two tribes. The greater seed of David will rule over all twelve tribes and the world through them. This is what this prophecy is about in Jeremiah that our attention has been called to. When David's righteous Branch takes the throne over all the house of Israel then it will never again be vacated because he is an eternal King. This is the take away from this prophecy.

37 Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely:
38 And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
39 And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.
41 Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul.
42 For thus saith the Lord; Like as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them.
43 And fields shall be bought in this land, whereof ye say, It is desolate without man or beast; it is given into the hand of the Chaldeans.
44 Men shall buy fields for money, and subscribe evidences, and seal them, and take witnesses in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, and in the cities of the mountains, and in the cities of the valley, and in the cities of the south: for I will cause their captivity to return, saith the Lord.

I don't know if anyone knows this but this has not happened at any time in human history yet. Therefore, if it will happen, it will be in the future.

Jer 33:7 And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to return, and will build them, as at the first.
8 And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me; and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.

9 And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.

This whole prophecy is to take place in days to come and it is not about a partial rule of a king.

14 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.
15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The Lord our righteousness.
17 For thus saith the Lord; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
18 Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do

Bad doctrines comes from not considering the context or failure to believe what is written, or both.

This prophecy says that the righteous Branch of David, who we now know is Jesus Christ, will one day rule over the whole house of Israel who are gathered from the nations and he will rule forever.

Few people believes this. Those who have commented on this thread do not seem to believe it.

 

[robycop3]

We will be able to spot him by the priests who are offering sacrifices according to the law, will we not?

You are not an "admitted BI" but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ..................

No other Baptist believer, a true Baptist, alive today will make the silly argument you are making. You are advancing a cult mentality by refusing correction on a single verse taken out of context, that affects countless other doctrines going forward. The fact you refuse logical and reasonable and contextual biblical correction is troubling.

No; it's YOU who are refusing correction by God's word.

God plainly stated that David would ALWAYS have a descendant ruling over Israelis, with NO BREAKS. Either you believe God or you don't.

God knew Solomon, & davidic kings who would follow would sin. Thus He said, "If they should sin..." He NEVER said Dave's permanent dynasty was dependent upon its members not sinning. Again, God KNEW they'd sin; He knew it before He gave His promise to Nathan to deliver to David. But He made His promise anyway.

Again-Do YOU have any candidate for a current Davidic descendant ruling over some Israelis according to God's promise to david?

 

[robycop3]

You are defeating your own argument. Athaliah was a WOMAN. and she did not live "in those days" when this prophecy from which you took your theology came.

But Joash, a linear descendant, while not then ruling, was alive, & was immediately recognized as king when Jehoiada presented him to the people. So Dave didn't lack a male descendant to later rule.

14 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.
15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The Lord our righteousness.
17 For thus saith the Lord; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
18 Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.

This prophecy has not yet come to pass and those days have not arrived yet. Somehow you have felt it necessary to lift this prophecy from those days and put it in former days. This is not right.

And there's been a descendant of Dave's ruling over Israelis ever since Dave's death. There have been Levites sinct then as well. Sure, the levites aren't conducting temple rites now, as there's no temple yet for them to conduct them in, just as Joash didn't rule Judah soon as his father was killed, but he was present. And that rulership will be taken over by Jesus at His return,
And another KJV goof in Jer. 33;18-Jesus' death fulfilled the blood sacrifice laws once & for all. Most translations read GRAIN offerings in that verse, not meat. The Hebrew just means "an offering or sacrifice" without specifying meat or grain.

Read the promise and the good thing in the previous verses, going all the way back into chapter 32. The Branch of David is an everlasting King. The promises are dependent upon a righteous King sitting on the throne. Judgement and righteousness? David did not even do that when he sat on the throne. Remember Uriah?

Stop. Think.

None of that is lost on GOD. He made His promise to David, regardless of david's sins, regardless of His knowing that all of David's descendants would sin. And that promise was UNCONDITIONAL! No one had to do anything to put that promise into effect. It was in effect the instant God gave it to Nathan to tell to David. And it's still in effect RIGHT NOW!

 

[robycop3]

Some interesting information regarding the prophecy in Jer 33. This prophecy is considering the whole house of Israel, which consists of all 12 tribes and other good things God has planned for them. In or about 930 BC 10 of the tribes seceded from the united kingdom and left this family in two distinct nations with each having their own line of kings, and often in their history at war with one another. The family of David, who had been promised that his seed would rule, obviously did not rule over the whole house of Israel after 930 BC. The prophecy was not that his seed would rule over a tribe or two. The descendants of David ruled over Judah and Benjamin. two tribes. The greater seed of David will rule over all twelve tribes and the world through them. This is what this prophecy is about in Jeremiah that our attention has been called to. When David's righteous Branch takes the throne over all the house of Israel then it will never again be vacated because he is an eternal King. This is the take away from this prophecy.

37 Behold, I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine anger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely:
38 And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
39 And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.
41 Yea, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul.
42 For thus saith the Lord; Like as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them.
43 And fields shall be bought in this land, whereof ye say, It is desolate without man or beast; it is given into the hand of the Chaldeans.
44 Men shall buy fields for money, and subscribe evidences, and seal them, and take witnesses in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, and in the cities of the mountains, and in the cities of the valley, and in the cities of the south: for I will cause their captivity to return, saith the Lord.

I don't know if anyone knows this but this has not happened at any time in human history yet. Therefore, if it will happen, it will be in the future.

Jer 33:7 And I will cause the captivity of Judah and the captivity of Israel to return, and will build them, as at the first.
8 And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me; and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.

9 And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.

This whole prophecy is to take place in days to come and it is not about a partial rule of a king.

14 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.
15 In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The Lord our righteousness.
17 For thus saith the Lord; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
18 Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do

Bad doctrines comes from not considering the context or failure to believe what is written, or both.

This prophecy says that the righteous Branch of David, who we now know is Jesus Christ, will one day rule over the whole house of Israel who are gathered from the nations and he will rule forever.

Few people believes this. Those who have commented on this thread do not seem to believe it.

I believe that prophecy 100% The throne is still here somewhere right now, & will be here when Jesus returns to take over it. Right now, He is still the nobleman of His parable in Luke 19 who went to a far country to receive His kingdom. He is not yet reigning over it. But HE WILL, at His physical, visible return!

 

[robycop3]

Yes, that's true. I did not want to give the impression that I said nothing about this teaching, either. I simply meant that I tend to not waste too much energy any longer with those who will not listen and rather to those more on the fence who are still searching for answers. The thing is, while people flail their arms (even Christians) asking what is going on lately, I was going around for awhile now long before a pandemic saying things like "I can sense the ungodliness increasing". Because of knowing who we are I could see it coming. Interestingly, Jonathan Cahn compares the ancient history of Israel and what is happening to the USA today, but stops short of actually calling us Israel. But at least with the former, he's correct. Another compared Trump to Jeroboam 2. Brought seeming prosperity and morality to the nation so there's time to repent before the fall. Now we are sinking deeper in the mire.

Biden & Pelosi CLAIM to be devout catholics, but they SUPPORT ABORTION! Speaking of hypocrites...
God prophesied a great falling away would occur, & it has, worldwide. While I still believe the US has the highest per-capita percentage of ACTUAL Christians among large nations, it's still in the great fall-away with LBGTQ support, abortion support, widespread fornication, and a great number of cults & cult members, many practicing a quasi/pseudo form of "Christianity', which is simply other gospels, "having a FORM of godliness, while denying the POWER of it."

What concerns me with the other gent in the recent discussion is his adherence to false doctrines, preferring some of them to BELIEVING GOD'S WORD. (He also seems to believe the KJVO myth, another false doctrine, as well.) Thus, I shall keep posting THE TRUTH, lest someone else reading here joins him in his folly.

 

[JD731]

But Joash, a linear descendant, while not then ruling, was alive, & was immediately recognized as king when Jehoiada presented him to the people. So Dave didn't lack a male descendant to later rule.

That was not your argument and you know it. I am going to make this my final contribution to this thread because it cannot progress.

Secular history or biblical history does not confirm your doctrine. You are laboring to make the bible conform to your doctrine and you will not submit to what it says.

There has not been a continuous reign of the family of David over Israel from the days 2 Samuel 7 was written or since David took the throne. That is not the promise. All of Israel has been scattered through the nations. The tabernacle of David has been cast down to the ground. The voice of the scriptures says so plainly.

Amos 9:8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord God are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it (the kingdom) from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the Lord.
9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.
11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

I don't know what else to say if you don't believe the above. David was king over 12 tribes.

The tabernacle of David was still cast down in AD 42 when James said the following, and still is to this very day.

Acts 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Whether men believes God or not is up to them. There is nothing about this that is hard to understand. It seems to be hard to believe, at least by some.