Ezekiel 38

[Pilgrimer]

Has Ezekiel 38 been fulfilled or is this the future of Israel? If it was fulfilled please show where in scripture you believe it was.

Hello Jedi Knight,

I addressed my post to Grasshopper, but I trust it answers your question.

My view is what is termed partial preterist, which means I believe we are living in the long period of time (figuratively a thousand years) of the reign of the saints with Christ and that the loosing of Satan, the final assault against God's people, the 2nd Coming of Jesus, the Great Resurrection, the Final Judgment, the New Heaven and New Earth and the inheritance of the saints of immorality in the eternal state where the Father and Son dwell with us bodily are the "last things" which still remain to be fulfilled.

I understand Ezekiel 38 and 39 to have been a prophecy about the 7-year Roman/Jewish war which quite literally fulfilled what was foretold in this prophecy in rather painful and heart-wrenching detail.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[webdog]

You are welcome. You can call me just plain ol' Amy.

Typing "plain ol' Amy" is longer than typing "Amy G"

 

[webdog]

The battle of Gog / Magog is future...and the way things are lining up with Russia and Iran, in the very near future. Whether it is pre or post rapture is another discussion, but Missler did a great job of explaining Ez. 38 in the book Steeling America second edition.

 

[Amy.G]

Typing "plain ol' Amy" is longer than typing "Amy G"

Sigh......You just gotta make trouble don't cha? :laugh:

 

[Grasshopper]

First libbies refuse to acknowledge what a literal interpretation of scripture is. Maybe the two of you should study on that before making such silly comments and even going so far as to write a book. A major reason why the comment qualifies as sophomoric. Second the entire idea is refuted by what I posted.

So here is how it goes with the "literalist fundies":

RevLiteralist:

"Those swords in Eze. 39-39 are really AK 47's and those chariots are actually tanks(did you know those tanks are made of wood!) and those bows are clearly missile launchers and of course the arrows are Russian missiles. We fundies take the Bible literally!

Can you believe those liberals who deny that the land of Israel will literally shake, not only that but all the fishes and birds and elk and lizards will also shake in God's presence. Then them mountains will come falling down into the valleys then we're all gonna fight each other with swords. 'Course not me an Ethel cuz we done been raptured. But we might buy some stock in some sword making outfits cuz they sure is gonna do a lot of business in the future. Wonder why nobody's gonna use guns??? Anyway then there's gonna a come one whale of a hailstorm. It all right there in my KJV of Exe 38. We take it literally unlike those librals! Man I miss Jack Hyles.

 

[gb93433]

First libbies refuse to acknowledge what a literal interpretation of scripture is.

Do you mean like those liberals who refused to believe the text of 1 Sam. 19:9?

 

[Grasshopper]

but Missler did a great job of explaining Ez. 38 in the book Steeling America second edition.

Chuck Missler attempts to get around the description of ancient war implements by claiming that the various Hebrew words “is simply 2,500-year-old language that could be describing a mechanized force.”[12] The word translated “horse,” “actually means leaper” that “can also mean bird, or even chariot-rider.” He tells us that the Hebrew word translated “sword” “has become a generic term for any weapon or destroying instrument.” In a similar way, “arrow” means “piercer” and “is occasionally used for thunderbolt” and could be “translated today as a missile.” We are to believe that “‘Bow’ is what launches the [missile].”[13] Is Missler trying to tell us that when Ezekiel wrote “bow” and “arrow” he really meant a launching pad for a missile? To follow his interpretive methodology requires us to believe that the meaning of the Bible has been inaccessible to the people of God for nearly 2500 years. Missler, like nearly all end-time prognosticators, breaks all the rules of exegesis.

http://www.americanvision.org/article/the-battle-of-gog-and-magog-prophetic-deja-vu/

 

[Ed Edwards]

Tee Hee

The two seperate attacks on Ysrael: One in Z.38 a second in Z.39

Look them over, they are different, different times, different combatants.

The Z.39 is probably the Revelation 20 Gog/Magog rebellion; the Z.38 invasion would be a future (to us) as described by the guys above in this thread.

Makes a big difference, same words, different understanding.

 

[Revmitchell]

So here is how it goes with the "literalist fundies":

RevLiteralist:

"Those swords in Eze. 39-39 are really AK 47's and those chariots are actually tanks(did you know those tanks are made of wood!) and those bows are clearly missile launchers and of course the arrows are Russian missiles. We fundies take the Bible literally!

Can you believe those liberals who deny that the land of Israel will literally shake, not only that but all the fishes and birds and elk and lizards will also shake in God's presence. Then them mountains will come falling down into the valleys then we're all gonna fight each other with swords. 'Course not me an Ethel cuz we done been raptured. But we might buy some stock in some sword making outfits cuz they sure is gonna do a lot of business in the future. Wonder why nobody's gonna use guns??? Anyway then there's gonna a come one whale of a hailstorm. It all right there in my KJV of Exe 38. We take it literally unlike those librals! Man I miss Jack Hyles.

Like the author you have not a clue what it means to interpret the Bible literally.

 

[Me4Him]

No, it says Jesus spoke to them IN the Last Days.

Heb 1:2 in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages;

Doesn't Latter/Last mean after the former days.

Daniel spoke of 4 Kingdoms not seven. Rome was the fourth:


Dan 2:40 And the fourth kingdom is strong as iron, because that iron is breaking small, and making feeble, all things , even as iron that is breaking all these, it beateth small and breaketh.




1. Julius Caesar (49-44 BC)
2. Augustus (31BC- AD 14)
3. Tiberius (AD 14-37
4. Gaius a.k.a. Caligula (AD 37-41)
5. Claudius (AD 41-54)
6. Nero (AD 54-68)
7. Galba (AD 68-69)
8. Otho (AD 69)
9. Vitellius (AD 69)
10. Vespasian (AD 69-79)
11. Titus (AD 79-81)
12. Domitian (AD 81-96)

Funny, that you name 12 when scripture said there were only seven.

1. Egypt, the Pharaods.

2. Assyrian, Sennacherib.

3. Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, Nebuchadnezzar’s Dream begins here,
Daniel 2 38, Thou art this head of gold.

4. Medo-Persian, Cyrus, Darius, Daniel 2 39, And after thee shall arise
another kingdom inferior to thee.

5. Greek, Alexander The Great. another third kingdom of brass,
which shall rule all the earth.

6. Roman Empire, Daniel 2 40, And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron.

7, Revived Roman Empire.
Daniel 2 42, And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay.

8. Antichrist.

Revelation 17 11, And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

[webdog]

Chuck Missler attempts to get around the description of ancient war implements by claiming that the various Hebrew words “is simply 2,500-year-old language that could be describing a mechanized force.”[12] The word translated “horse,” “actually means leaper” that “can also mean bird, or even chariot-rider.” He tells us that the Hebrew word translated “sword” “has become a generic term for any weapon or destroying instrument.” In a similar way, “arrow” means “piercer” and “is occasionally used for thunderbolt” and could be “translated today as a missile.” We are to believe that “‘Bow’ is what launches the [missile].”[13] Is Missler trying to tell us that when Ezekiel wrote “bow” and “arrow” he really meant a launching pad for a missile? To follow his interpretive methodology requires us to believe that the meaning of the Bible has been inaccessible to the people of God for nearly 2500 years. Missler, like nearly all end-time prognosticators, breaks all the rules of exegesis.

http://www.americanvision.org/article/the-battle-of-gog-and-magog-prophetic-deja-vu/

So...should OT prophecy have used our 21st century language? How would they have a clue what was being prophecied? Missler's exegesis is spot on.

 

[Me4Him]

So...should OT prophecy have used our 21st century language? How would they have a clue what was being prophecied? Missler's exegesis is spot on.

I agree.

Jesus told the disciples it wasn't for them to "KNOW" the times/season Israel would be "Restored",

Daniel's book wasn't to be opened to understanding until the "TIME OF THE END",

God only reveals to each generation what pertained to and is necessary for that generation to "KNOW".

And if the spirit is not revealing it, then everything is "speculation/guessing".

And at the present, Daniel's book is being fulfilled as fast as the pains of a woman right on the verge of giving birth. :thumbs:

 

[Grasshopper]

Originally Posted by Revmitchell
Like the author you have not a clue what it means to interpret the Bible literally.

You are correct, neither he nor I can figure out what literalism means to a dispie. They are too inconsistent in their usage. I guess it changes with each passage. I would ask you to explain but I know you won't. You have yet to offer any explanation as to why your view is correct or why mine is wrong. I can only assume you can really do neither.

Originally Posted by Me4Him
Doesn't Latter/Last mean after the former days.

I was responding to your statement of:

The "Latter or Last days" refers to the time period "After" Jesus came.


Hebrews says Jesus ministered in the last days. The last days were occuring in the 1st century.

Funny, that you name 12 when scripture said there were only seven.

Those 12 were in response to your statement:

Re 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, (Rome) and the other is not yet come; (revived Rome) and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition

You seem to equate the Kings of Revelation with the Kingdoms of Daniel. You are incorrect. Nero was the "one is" of Revelation 17:10.

1. Egypt, the Pharaods.

2. Assyrian, Sennacherib.

3. Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, Nebuchadnezzar’s Dream begins here,
Daniel 2 38, Thou art this head of gold.

4. Medo-Persian, Cyrus, Darius, Daniel 2 39, And after thee shall arise
another kingdom inferior to thee.

5. Greek, Alexander The Great. another third kingdom of brass,
which shall rule all the earth.

6. Roman Empire, Daniel 2 40, And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron.

7, Revived Roman Empire.
Daniel 2 42, And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay.

8. Antichrist.

You have been reading to much Hal Lindsey. Daniel mentions 4 Kingdoms not 8! The 4th being Rome, which you have as 6th:

Dan 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

There is no mention of a Revived Roman Empire nor Antichrist. It's just made up by dispies.


The four are the Babylonian, Persian, Grecian, and Roman kingdoms.


It was during the Roman Empire that God estblished His Kingdom, just as Daniel predicted:

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

This is why John was able to proclaim the Kingdom:


Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Four Beasts/Kingdoms not 8:


Dan 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Originally Posted by webdog
So...should OT prophecy have used our 21st century language? How would they have a clue what was being prophecied? Missler's exegesis is spot on.

Well, apparently they had no clue as it was since the Prophet wasn't speaking about them or thier weapons of that day. Ezekiel had no problem using language unknown to his audience earlier, read Ezekiel chapter 1.

So give us the Missler exegisis of this verse:

Eze 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

Literalism....:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Originally Posted by Me4Him
And at the present, Daniel's book is being fulfilled as fast as the pains of a woman right on the verge of giving birth.

Can you give some examples using scriptures found in Daniel?

 

[gb93433]

You are correct, neither he nor I can figure out what literalism means to a dispie. They are too inconsistent in their usage. I guess it changes with each passage. I would ask you to explain but I know you won't. You have yet to offer any explanation as to why your view is correct or why mine is wrong. I can only assume you can really do neither.

Dispenationalism is in a constant state of evolution. What I find especially interesting is that many of the younger dispensationalists today believe little of what older dispensationalists professors taught and believed. Dispensationalists claim that their theology is being perfected yet scripture makes that claim about its theology.

 

[Revmitchell]

You are correct, neither he nor I can figure out what literalism means to a dispie. They are too inconsistent in their usage. I guess it changes with each passage. I would ask you to explain but I know you won't. You have yet to offer any explanation as to why your view is correct or why mine is wrong. I can only assume you can really do neither.

Sure I did. I used scripture to refute the whole thing. And since you do not know what literal translation is you have no idea if it is inconsistent or not. You would have to understand it to know that. And you have demonstrated clearly you are lost.

 

[gb93433]

And since you do not know what literal translation is you have no idea if it is inconsistent or not.

A study of any foreign language and translation will quickly reveal that there is no such thing as a literal translation?

 

[Revmitchell]

A study of any foreign language and translation will quickly reveal that there is no such thing as a literal translation?

You should really study the issue before trying to comment on it.

 

[Me4Him]

Can you give some examples using scriptures found in Daniel?

we'll let the seven kingdom go, takes tooooo much explaining/typing to get you up to "speed". :laugh:

Da 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

Da 11:23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully:

1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

The world is attempting to make this treaty between Israel/Arabs that scripture says only the AC can achieve,

Can't you read the "signs of the times"???

 

[Grasshopper]

we'll let the seven kingdom go, takes tooooo much explaining/typing to get you up to "speed". :laugh:

Yea, complicated system to make Daniel say 8 when he really says 4.

Da 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

You must be using the Lahaye Prophecy Study Bible.

Albert Barnes
Shall stand up a vile person - There shall succeed to the throne. The reference here is to Antiochus Epiphanes, who reigned from 175 b.c. to 163 b.c. The epithet "vile" here given him was one which his subsequent history showed was eminently appropriate to him in all respects, as a man and as a prince.

John Gill
Dan 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person,.... Upon his basis or stand, in the same place where Seleucus Philopator stood, succeeded Antiochus Epiphanes his brother, called "vile", being a very immoral man, given to drunkenness, lasciviousness, uncleanness, and unnatural lusts, and a violent persecutor of the church of God.

Adam Clark
In his estate shall stand up a vile person - This was Antiochus, surnamed Epiphanes - the Illustrious.

Jamieson,Fasset,and Brown
Dan 11:21
vile — Antiochus called Epiphanes, that is, "the illustrious," for vindicating the claims of the royal line against Heliodorus, was nicknamed, by a play of sounds, Epimanes, that is, "the madman," for his mad freaks beneath the dignity of a king.

Keil and Delitzsch
Dan 11:21-24
This prince is the enemy of the holy God who is prophesied of in Dan_8:9-13, Dan_8:23-25, under the figure of the little horn, and is typically represented in the rising up of the Syrian king Antiochus Epiphanes against the covenant people and their worship of God.

Wesley
Dan 11:21 A vile person - Antiochus, called Epiphanes by his flatterers, but the people of God accounted him infamous, base, and treacherous. They - Neither peers nor people, nor was he the heir, but his nephew; but he crept in by flatteries.

Geneva Study Bible
Dan 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a (s) vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
(s) Who was Antiochus Epiphanes, who as is thought was the occasion of Seleucus his brother's death, and was of a vile, cruel, and flattering nature, and defrauded his brother's son of the kingdom, and usurped the kingdom without the consent of the people.

1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Yea, we really live in a peaceful world.:laugh:

The world is attempting to make this treaty between Israel/Arabs that scripture says only the AC can achieve,

Where can this scripture be found?

Can't you read the "signs of the times"???

DeMar calls this "newspaper exegisis". You must be young, because this has been going on for decades and they continue to be wrong.

 

[Grasshopper]

Sure I did. I used scripture to refute the whole thing. And since you do not know what literal translation is you have no idea if it is inconsistent or not. You would have to understand it to know that. And you have demonstrated clearly you are lost.

Exegete this for us:

Eze 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years.