Now you're being dishonest by deliberately misrepresenting me with your imagination. Duty calls ne away, I intend to come back to this.
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Failing the Judgment of the Sheep and the Goats
- Thread starter Steven Yeadon
- Start date
Now you're being dishonest by deliberately misrepresenting me with your imagination. Duty calls ne away, I intend to come back to this.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Paul uses the word "justified" in a legal sense, that is justified in a court of law, i.e. declared innocent by the judge.
James uses the word "justified" with the sense of validation. That is your faith is validated by the works you do.
Both are true and must be understood in context.
Peace to you
Is this what you mean by 'validated'?:
35 for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in;
36 naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Mt 25
It's the same 'validation' to which James was referring:
27 Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. Ja 1
15 If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food,
16 and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit?
24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2
4 Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. Ro 4
Do these sound as if they thought they were 'owed' the kingdom?:
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, and fed thee? or athirst, and gave thee drink?
38 And when saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 And when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? Mt 25
No, not a hint of 'boasting'. It's as if they weren't even conscious of doing anything out of the ordinary, like doing these things came to them 'naturally', from the heart, like Paul articulated, "when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law...they show the work of the law written in their hearts".
Do these sound as if they thought they were 'owed' the kingdom?:
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, and fed thee? or athirst, and gave thee drink?
38 And when saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 And when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? Mt 25
No, not a hint of 'boasting'. It's as if they weren't even conscious of doing anything out of the ordinary, like doing these things came to them 'naturally', from the heart, like Paul articulated, "when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law...they show the work of the law written in their hearts".
Ephesians 2:8-10. 'For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works , which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.'
Once again, salvation is by faith, by faith alone, without works. But the faith that saves alone does not remain alone. Read Hebrews 11. 'By faith Abraham did this; by faith Moses did that. They did the works that God prepared for them beforehand that they should walk in them.
Exactly so. They had new hearts; they were born again.
But nothing like that at all.
What a discombobulation, created by adding one little word to the gospel, and that after the scripture literally refutes the addition of that one little word to the gospel.
24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2
Not at all. Paul (Ephesians 2:8-10 etc.) and the Lord Jesus (Luke 18:9-14) both rule out justification by works. If not, we might all just as well become Moslems and follow the five pillars, or go to some self-help book to make us do better.
To 'justify' means to declare righteous. God justifies men by grace through faith and not by works (see above). But the man who has been justified by faith will always produce works, and these will declare him to be righteous-- that is, they will be the evidence that he is saved by grace-- on the Last Day.
Let me try to explain:
Suppose that Christianity became illegal in Britain (something that becomes less unlikely every day), and a man was brought before the judge accused of being a Christian. Whom might he call in his defence?
He might call his wife. "Well I never thought he was a Christian. He was bullying and overbearing to me and used foul language around the house."
He might call his neighbour. "Well I never thought he was a Christian. He never witnessed to me or passed me a tract."
He might call his friends. "We never thought he was a Christian. In our company he used to tell risqué jokes, and talk about sex and money. We never heard him talk about Christ."
He might call his local bar-tender. "I never thought he was a Christian. He was one of my best customers, and often the worse for wear for drink."
He might call his bank manager. "I never thought he was a Christian. There were several standing orders to drinks companies and subs to pornographic mags, but nothing to Christian charities or to a church.
So the judge will say, "Well, Mr Smith, the verdict is absolutely clear. You give no evidence of being born again or being justified by faith. I pronounce you not guilty of being a Christian; you are free to go."
That's the question being posed in 2 Corinthians 13:5. Is there any real evidence that Christ has saved us? Our works will justify us if we have any because they are the proof that He has. But that does not alter the fact that justification is by grace alone through faith alone.
Yes it is. 'Justified by faith alone but not a faith that is alone' is a discombulation solely from adding to the gospel that which is contrary to the gospel.
Mark 5:36. 'Do not be afraid; only believe.'
No, they were conscious about doing these works...the passage is about not realizing they were doing it 'Unto the Lord'. hence the question, "When did we feed 'Thee'?..."
Desperately snatching at straws, taken totally out of context. I've other things to do, you can have the last word, I know it means a lot to you to have the last word.
Sorry to derail this thread, but 2 Corinthians 13:5 is not about self examination for salvific purposes--it was to defend Paul's Apostleship.
Basically, Paul is saying, "Look at your own spiritual realities--you're in the faith and i'm the one who fathered you...therefore i am who God called me to be--and you are my validation"
v. 3 since you are demanding proof that Christ is speaking through me--What's the Proof? That they are in the faith!
So they were consciously doing these works in order to inherit the kingdom? Because the works were precisely the reason they were given the kingdom.
Did the Samaritan care for he that had fallen to the robbers in order to earn favor with God?:
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he was moved with compassion, Lu 10
No. It was a compassion not inherent to the natural man.
That's not what i said.
You said:
...regardless of whether they realized they were doing it for the body of Christ or not, my question still stands:
"So they were consciously doing these works in order to inherit the kingdom? Because the works were precisely the reason they were given the kingdom."
So said the man having the last word
2 Corinthians 13:5. 'Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know that Christ is in you?-- unless indeed you are disqualified [ or 'do not stand the test' NKJV margin]'.
I'm happy to let people make their own minds up.
My point was that they didn't realize they were doing it "unto the Lord"--which is what i stated. Where did i say they were doing it to inherit the Kingdom? That is adding to what i said--not cool, brother.
I'll rephrase, and hopefully 'be cool' about it.
If they didn't know they were doing the works "unto the Lord", why were they doing the works?
Because that's what sheep (the righteous vs. 46) do.