Faith # 4

[Brightfame52]

Faith is a Gift of God !

We know Faith is a Spiritual Grace from a Supernatural Source because we read of it this comment 1 Pet 1:7

7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

When genuine Faith is tested by the varius trials, it cannot perish, because its born out of that Incorruptible Seed. 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The word incorruptible [aphthartos] means:

uncorrupted, not liable to corruption or decay, imperishable

Now certainly , this kind of Faith is not t o be found in the nature and flesh of unregenerate men !

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Author and Finisher of this type of Faith, whom Himself endured many trials with it ! Heb 12:2-3

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

Thats the type Faith given the believer who was begotten out of the Incorruptible Seed, the Word of God, which is Christ Jn 1:1, who is the Author of this type Faith !

Those who falsely teach that this Faith is in the old man of the flesh by nature, are not of the Truth, and they are attempting to steal the Praise, Honour and Glory of it for themselves ! 5

 

[cjab]

Now certainly , this kind of Faith is not t o be found in the nature and flesh of unregenerate men !

Faith is of the "heart" (Rom 10:10) where I read that heart is "the entire inner person, encompassing the mind, will, and emotions—it's the spiritual and moral center from which all decisions, thoughts, and desires originate."

As to faith, I take it "heart" principally infers "mind + will," which precludes faith being in the nature of mere opinion, but rather of a mind given to repentance from sin.

So this precludes faith in a mind at emnity to God and the law (Rom 8:7).

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Author and Finisher of this type of Faith, whom Himself endured many trials with it ! Heb 12:2-3

The word "author" may be sub-optimum, as too narrow. The Greek word is ἀρχηγός (comprising ἀρχή - beginning, origin, rule - figuratively: chief + ἄγω - lead (properly, the first in a long procession; a file-leader who pioneers the way for many others to follow), bring forth - figuratively: induce).

HELPS WORD STUDIES: (arxēgós) does not strictly mean "author," but rather "a person who is originator or founder of a movement and continues as the leader – i.e. 'pioneer leader, founding leader'.

IMO there is nothing in the word ἀρχηγός that mandates "faith as of God to the exclusion of men."

1 Pet 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

"Born Again," ἀναγεννάω, is comprised of prefix ἀνά (preposition, properly, upward, up, denoting motion from a lower place to a higher place, or by extension, in turn, one after another, in succession, each, apiece, anew) + γεννάω (to beget, to give birth).

Given the context of "birth of incorruptible seed", I would have supposed that "born again" here might be better translated "born from on high, anew or regenerate"), as rebirth of the literal flesh is not what is being inferred.

Those who falsely teach that this Faith is in the old man of the flesh by nature...

Exactly whom are you referring to here? It would help if you could adduce at least one specific example of whom your monologue is directed against. Sure, there have been many that devalue repentance, and don't teach separation from the world, and such is the essence of liberal churches today. Is your thesis directed against liberalism, or is it only directed against anti-Calvinists? If the latter, you are well wide of the mark, as the bible allows that even the unregenerate may be given (by God's Spirit) a new heart, "a heart of flesh not of stone", Eze 36:26 or an "undivided heart" Eze 11:19, for there is nothing in the bible that precludes the unregenerate from responding to God's Spirit, or receiving God's call, excepting their own will.

 

[Brightfame52]

Faith is of the "heart" (Rom 10:10) where I read that heart is "the entire inner person, encompassing the mind, will, and emotions—it's the spiritual and moral center from which all decisions, thoughts, and desires originate."

As to faith, I take it "heart" principally infers "mind + will," which precludes faith being in the nature of mere opinion, but rather of a mind given to repentance from sin.

So this precludes faith in a mind at emnity to God and the law (Rom 8:7).


The word "author" may be sub-optimum, as too narrow. The Greek word is ἀρχηγός (comprising ἀρχή - beginning, origin, rule - figuratively: chief + ἄγω - lead (properly, the first in a long procession; a file-leader who pioneers the way for many others to follow), bring forth - figuratively: induce).

HELPS WORD STUDIES: (arxēgós) does not strictly mean "author," but rather "a person who is originator or founder of a movement and continues as the leader – i.e. 'pioneer leader, founding leader'.

IMO there is nothing in the word ἀρχηγός that mandates "faith as of God to the exclusion of men."


"Born Again," ἀναγεννάω, is comprised of prefix ἀνά (preposition, properly, upward, up, denoting motion from a lower place to a higher place, or by extension, in turn, one after another, in succession, each, apiece, anew) + γεννάω (to beget, to give birth).

Given the context of "birth of incorruptible seed", I would have supposed that "born again" here might be better translated "born from on high, anew or regenerate"), as rebirth of the literal flesh is not what is being inferred.


Exactly whom are you referring to here? It would help if you could adduce at least one specific example of whom your monologue is directed against. Sure, there have been many that devalue repentance, and don't teach separation from the world, and such is the essence of liberal churches today. Is your thesis directed against liberalism, or is it only directed against anti-Calvinists? If the latter, you are well wide of the mark, as the bible allows that even the unregenerate may be given (by God's Spirit) a new heart, "a heart of flesh not of stone", Eze 36:26 or an "undivided heart" Eze 11:19, for there is nothing in the bible that precludes the unregenerate from responding to God's Spirit, or receiving God's call, excepting their own will.

Obviously you dont believe Faith is the Gift of God, and its not in natural man

 

[cjab]

Obviously you dont believe Faith is the Gift of God, and its not in natural man

Not sure what spirit you are of, given that I conceded faith comes by the Spirit.

 

[Brightfame52]

Faith is not from the natural man !


Many of the religionists who are full of themselves, they boast of Faith in Salvation being something that is in man by nature, but they are liars. The Faith that pleases God as Per Heb 11:6 is not in the natural man, for the natural man cannot please God Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The natural man is anyone born of natural generation by our natural parents. That makes us carnal by nature. The word carnal sarx means:

B.used of natural or physical origin, generation or relationship
i.
born of natural generation

And so in this condition, we cannot please God, which Faith that Pleases God does according to Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

And yet proud religionists will still insist that the carnal natural man has Faith !

Now here in Heb 11:1,6 the Faith that Pleases God comes from the Author and Finisher of It, the Lord Jesus Christ Heb 12:1,2

Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

In other words religionists, that Faith which pleases God Heb 11:6, Jesus Christ is the Author and Finisher of !

The Father has said on many occasions this Matt 3:17

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

The Prophet of old speaking of Christ writes Isa 42:21

The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Now, it is this Faith, that of the Son of God, whom the Father is well Pleased, that is the Faith that Pleases God.

This is the Faith Paul means here Gal 2:20

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

All for whom Christ died, He gives them a portion of His Faith in the New Birth.

That's why Peter calls it this 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

That word obtained λαγχάνω:


obtain by lot
A.
to receive by divine allotment, obtain


II.
to cast lots, determine by lot

An allotment is a portion ,to furnish with a portion, as with an inheritance or a dowry

the part of an estate that goes to an heir or a next of kin.

So Faith is allotted to all the Joint Heirs of Jesus Christ whom He died for. Remember Rom 8:17

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

And Christ allots them a portion of their Inheritance in Him, Faith. Rom 12:3

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

We know this is not speaking of all natural men, for they cannot please God. This is speaking of every man who are Heirs of God and Joint Heirs of Jesus Christ, remember, before Rom 12:3 we read of Rom 8:17 !

So Faith that pleases God Heb 11:6 cannot be out of the flesh, its out of the Son of God, the Author and Finisher of it and gives it to all His Joint Heirs, Chosen in Him before the foundation. Eph 1:4. 5

 

[cjab]

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

All for whom Christ died, He gives them a portion of His Faith in the New Birth.

This is the wrong interpretation. You need to distinguish the subjective genitive from the objective genitive in Greek.

In Gal 2:20, we have what is called a genitive of the object, which occurs after substantives which denote an internal or external activity,—a feeling, expression, action (Krug. p. 36, Don. p. 482, Jelf 542. ii.): Mt. xiii. 18, παραβολή τού σπείροντος the sower-parable, i.e. the parable about the
sower; 1 C. i. 6, μαρτύρων τού Χριστού, witness concerning Christ..................etc.

The above taken from Winer's Grammar English Version, SECT. XXX.] THE GENITIVE. p.231. Edn 3rd, 6th English Edn. 1882.

In Gal 2:20 we also have a genitive of the object. ἐν πίστει ζῶ, τῇ τοῦ Υἱοῦ τοῦ Θεοῦ = "In faith I live, that concerning the Son of God."

NB: not "faith of the Son of God."

 

[Brightfame52]

This is the wrong interpretation.

No its not, He is their spiritual progenitor, they are His seed, and therefore author of their faith Heb 12:2

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Isaiah identifies them as His Seed Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Faith is part of their spiritual dna just as we may have traits form our natural father dna because we are his seed

 

[cjab]

No its not,

Yes it is, in the narrow point of correctly translating Gal 2:20, which is not translated "faith of the Son of God."

He is their spiritual progenitor, they are His seed, and therefore author of their faith Heb 12:2

HELPS WORD STUDIES (arxēgós) does not strictly mean "author," but rather "a person who is originator or founder of a movement and continues as the leader – i.e. 'pioneer leader, founding leader' "

ἀρχηγός, ἀρχηγόν, adjective, leading, furnishing the first cause or occasion: Euripides, Hipp. 881; Plato, Crat., p. 401 d.; chiefly used as a substantive, ὁ, ἡ, ἀρχηγός (ἀρχή and ἄγω);

1. the chief leader, prince: of Christ, Acts 5:31; (Aeschylus Ag. 259; Thucydides 1, 132;. The Sept. Isaiah 3:5; 2 Chronicles 23:14, and often).

2. "one that takes the lead in anything (1 Macc. 10:47, ἀρχηγός λόγων εἰρηνικῶν) and thus affords an example, a predecessor in a matter": τῆς πίστεως, of Christ, Hebrews 12:2 (who in the prominence of his faith far surpassed the examples of faith commemorated in Hebrews 11) (others bring this under the next head; yet cf. Kurtz at the passage). So ἀρχηγός ἁμαρτίας, Micah 1:13; ζήλους, Clement of Rome, 1 Cor. 14, 1 [ET]; τῆς στάσεως καί διχοστασίας, ibid. 51, 1; τῆς ἀποστασιας, of the devil, Irenaeus 4, 40, 1; τοιαυτης φιλοσοφίας, of Thales, Aristotle, met. 1, 3, 7 (p. 983{b} 20). Hence,

3. the author: τῆς ζωῆς, Acts 3:15; τῆς σωτηρίας, Hebrews 2:10. (Often so in secular authors: τῶν πάντων, of God (Plato) Tim. Locr., p. 96 c.; τοῦ γένους τῶν ἀνθρώπων, of God, Diodorus 5, 72; ἀρχηγός καί αἴτιος, leader and author, are often joined, as Polybius 1, 66, 10; Herodian, 2, 6, 22 (14, Bekker edition)). Cf. Bleek on Heb. vol. ii. 1, p. 301f.

---------------------

None of this suggests Christ "gives his own faith to us." Rather he is the progenitor or originating cause of our faith, in bringing salvation & the forgiveness of sins Acts 5:31.

Moreover, you are not distinguishing God from Christ, whom are always distinguished in didactic teaching. Thus, whilst salvation is the "gift of God" per Eph 2:8, it is Christ who is the arxēgós (progenitor or originating cause or instrument) of our salvation (Heb 2:10).

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes it is,

No its not.

 

[Brightfame52]

HELPS WORD STUDIES (arxēgós) does not strictly mean "author," but rather "a person who is originator or founder of a movement and continues as the leader – i.e. 'pioneer leader, founding leader'

Good you studied the word, but you didnt break it down enough archēgos is made of two words, one being archē :

1. beginning, origin
2. the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3. that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause

He is the origin and active cause of the believers Faith because they are His spiritual seed, they will live a life of faith as He did,

Heb 2:13

13 And again, I[Christ] will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children[seed] which God hath given me.

 

[Brightfame52]

Faith is of the "heart" (Rom 10:10) where I read that heart is "the entire inner person, encompassing the mind, will, and emotions—it's the spiritual and moral center from which all decisions, thoughts, and desires originate."

It is, just not the natural mans heart, but the new circumcised heart from new birth Ezk 36:26

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

The natural hard heart doesnt isnt spiritual, its the new man inner person that believes God and obeys God

 

[cjab]

No its not, you need God to give you understanding

When it's a matter of grammar, it's only debateable as a matter of Greek syntax, and not "understanding" which after all, is always seeking to exalt itself. However, our understanding must be subject to rigorous academic discipline, otherwise it may develop along gnostic lines.

I haven't come across a Greek commentary yet that adopts your grammatical take, and from my perspective, there is unanimity amongst the Greek authorities for seeing the Genitive in Gal 2:20 (and in other places in Galatians) as the objective genitive. I note you have yet to cite any Greek authorities that support your view. I accept the KJV does, but the KJV contains errors.

Love of God : subjective gentive.
Fear of God : objective gentive.

Testimony "of" Christ : objective gentive 1 Cor 1:6
Faith "of" Christ : objective gentive Gal 2:20, 3:22 etc.

(Replace "of" by "concerning" , "on" , "in" , or whatever is appropriate to denote the objective sense.)

The need to use the objective genitive in Gal 2:20 is seen from Gal 2:16 ".............. καὶ ἡμεῖς εἰς Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν ἐπιστεύσαμεν, ἵνα δικαιωθῶμεν ἐκ πίστεως Χριστοῦ, καὶ οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων νόμου, .........."

Word for word: "and we in Christ Jesus have believed, that we may be justified by faith "of" Christ, and not from the works of the law......."

It would be a meaningless for Paul constrast to compare the "works of the law," which pertain to the doings of men, with the "faith of Christ" (subjective gentive), which pertains only to Christ himself. Unless the objective sense were taken, Paul would be speaking unintelligibly.

And there is nothing untoward about seeing men as needing to have faith. Rather, it is crucial. As it is crucial, why would Paul deviate to the "faith of Christ" (subjective sense)?

Constrast: Rom 9:2 "Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law."

"Abraham believed God and it was credited as righeousness." (It is plain that "faith" must be of the man for there to be justification.) 2Ti 1:5 "I am reminded of your sincere faith, which first lived in your grandmother Lois and in your mother Eunice and, I am persuaded, now lives in you also." Jhn 6:29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe on him whom he had sent."

 

[Brightfame52]

When it's a matter of grammar, it's only debateable as a matter of Greek syntax, and not "understanding" which after all, is always seeking to exalt itself. However, our understanding must be subject to rigorous academic discipline, otherwise it may develop along gnostic lines.

It is a matter of scripture truth

 

[Brightfame52]

Faith cometh by hearing of the Word of God! 4


Rom 10:17

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

This statement is extremely important, and abused by religionists. They suppose that Hearing here is done by the natural man in the flesh, not born again, however that is not even close to the Truth. Let me explain, Jesus made a very important statement as to who Hears the Word of God, or the Words of God; Jn 8:43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Jesus told some jews that they cannot hear His Word, meaning they did not have the ability to hear it, yes the could hear it physically and Audibly, naturally, however what Jesus means by this statement is that they COULD NOT hear it Spiritually, they did not have Spiritual Ears by New Birth.

Listen, when Jesus says He that hath a Ear, as here Rev 2:7,11,17,29 let him Hear, He means he that has spiritual ears from New Birth from His Resurrection 1 Pet 1:3,23.

Now lets look at another statement Jesus said about the ability or lack of ability to hear God's word. Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

That's it folks, He that is of God heareth God's Words. Now what does it mean to be of God ?

The word of is the prep ek and means I.out of, from, by, away from, Its etymology is:

A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative

So what Jesus is saying, He that is Born out of God is the one who hears God's Words Spiritually.

Born of God scriptures to consider in this matter 1 Jn 3:9

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 Jn 4:7

Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

1 Jn 5:1

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

This scripture specifically collaborates Jesus Words of Jn 8:47, its being stated here exactly who it is that Believeth Jesus is the Christ, those having been born of God !

1 Pet 1:23

Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Here the prep ek is used as to being born out of the incorruptible Seed, by the Word of God [The Living Word] Jn 1:1 who was God in the Flesh Jn 1:14.

So these things scripture testifies to, it does not matter who the person is, how religious they are, how learned they are, unless a person has been born of God, they cannot hear [spiritually] God's word, and so the Faith they have is not the Faith of Rom 10:17.

Also I say this, if any man, say they heard and believed the Gospel unto Salvation before they were Born of God, they are deceived and the Truth is not in them ! 5

 

[Brightfame52]

Scriptures which signify that Faith is from God !

Scriptures which signify that Faith is from God , that is Faith to believe on Christ, to come to Him, because its not in man by nature Rom 8:8. Now here they are Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Also its plain from these scriptures that the natural man cannot believe in Christ. That's made clear by the words " no man can come" man lackes the ability to come/believe in Christ.

Paul teaches the same thing here Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

You see the word come denotes coming in Faith Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

The word cometh here in Heb 11:6 is the same word in the above Jn 6:37,44,65 verses.

This Faith or Coming ability must be given by God, for it does not reside in human nature !

Also that Faith or Coming to Christ is a work is seen here in Heb 11:6 because its stated that the ones who do come in Faith God is a rewarder. Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

The word rewarder is the greek word misthapodotés:

misthapodótēs (from 3408misthos, "reward" and 591 /apodídōmi, "give from") – properly, someone "paying what is due; a rewarder" (Abbott-Smith); a paymaster (A. T. Robertson), giving rewards in keeping with his own values. 3406 /misthapodótēs is only used in Heb 11:6.

one who pays wages

Wages:

Often, wages. money that is paid or received for work or services,

So this also condemns those who teach that God saves people for their Faith, that's translates still into salvation by works ! 5

 

[Charlie24]

Scriptures which signify that Faith is from God !

Scriptures which signify that Faith is from God , that is Faith to believe on Christ, to come to Him, because its not in man by nature Rom 8:8. Now here they are Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Also its plain from these scriptures that the natural man cannot believe in Christ. That's made clear by the words " no man can come" man lackes the ability to come/believe in Christ.

Paul teaches the same thing here Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

You see the word come denotes coming in Faith Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

The word cometh here in Heb 11:6 is the same word in the above Jn 6:37,44,65 verses.

This Faith or Coming ability must be given by God, for it does not reside in human nature !

Also that Faith or Coming to Christ is a work is seen here in Heb 11:6 because its stated that the ones who do come in Faith God is a rewarder. Heb 11:6

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

The word rewarder is the greek word misthapodotés:

misthapodótēs (from 3408misthos, "reward" and 591 /apodídōmi, "give from") – properly, someone "paying what is due; a rewarder" (Abbott-Smith); a paymaster (A. T. Robertson), giving rewards in keeping with his own values. 3406 /misthapodótēs is only used in Heb 11:6.

one who pays wages

Wages:

Often, wages. money that is paid or received for work or services,

So this also condemns those who teach that God saves people for their Faith, that's translates still into salvation by works ! 5

Oh boy, the Scripture says that faith comes by hearing the Word of God, BF.

Not all will have the faith from hearing the Word, so we know that faith is a choice given to man.

 

[Charlie24]

Oh boy, the Scripture says that faith comes by hearing the Word of God, BF.

Not all will have the faith from hearing the Word, so we know that faith is a choice given to man.

How long will you allow false teachers to influence you, BF?

 

[Brightfame52]

Oh boy, the Scripture says that faith comes by hearing the Word of God, BF.

Hearing comes by being saved. Jn 8:47

 

[Charlie24]

Hearing comes by being saved. Jn 8:47

Saved is the result of hearing and believing.

In John 8:47 they could not hear because they were not of God, they were not who they claimed to be!

If you go back to vs. 13, you will see it was the Pharisees that Christ was speaking to.

They claimed to be of God but they were not, they could not believe because God was not in their hearts.

Christ showed them up for who they really were.

 

[Brightfame52]

In John 8:47 they could not hear because they were not of God

Correct they were not saved, so one has to be saved to hear the word of God and believe