Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Eph 2:8 teaches that Faith is the gift of God, so its not a condition man must meet to get saved, its a gift given when a person is being saved.
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Faith # 5
- Thread starter Brightfame52
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Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Yes Faith to believe is only for Gods Elect chosen in Christ before the foundation, its one of those Spiritual blessings Eph 1:3-4
You didnt even read the Expositors Greek Commentary that you quoted. You missed the conclusion at the bottom… which is what I’ve been telling you.
If you would like to check more commentaries out, check out this great resource:
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Ive read itYou didnt even read the Expositors Greek Commentary that you quoted. You missed the conclusion at the bottom… which is what I’ve been telling you.
If you would like to check more commentaries out, check out this great resource:
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
I know you believe that.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Yep. Those in Eph 2:8 can be traced back to them in Eph 1:4
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Your ways are unequal.
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 1 Cor 15:3
1 Cor 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 1 Cor 15:5
According to the above if Christ was not raised, have you been saved? A resounding NO!
However something has wrought, being saved, salvation. Yes or No?
TR Eph 2:8 τῇ [dative] γὰρ χάριτί [dative] ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ τῆς πίστεως· καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον·
To [dative] the yet grace {dative] ye are ones having been saved [Perf Pas] through the faith and this not out of ye, of God the gift.
Do all understand that Eph 2:8 has to be found in 1 Cor 15:4,5 because of what Verse 17 states.
Therefore
What is, "the faith," of 1 Cor 15:4,5 and what is, "to the grace," of 1 Cor 15:4,5?
Romans 6:23 NKJV For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
It ain't about what you think. It is about what Jesus the Son and God the Father, did.
Salvation
1 Cor 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 1 Cor 15:5
According to the above if Christ was not raised, have you been saved? A resounding NO!
However something has wrought, being saved, salvation. Yes or No?
TR Eph 2:8 τῇ [dative] γὰρ χάριτί [dative] ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ τῆς πίστεως· καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον·
To [dative] the yet grace {dative] ye are ones having been saved [Perf Pas] through the faith and this not out of ye, of God the gift.
Do all understand that Eph 2:8 has to be found in 1 Cor 15:4,5 because of what Verse 17 states.
Therefore
What is, "the faith," of 1 Cor 15:4,5 and what is, "to the grace," of 1 Cor 15:4,5?
Romans 6:23 NKJV For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
It ain't about what you think. It is about what Jesus the Son and God the Father, did.
Salvation
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Its a work of God !
To believe on Christ, even though a person does it, for God does not believe for man, but its a work of God Jn 6:29
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
It is God's business, Employment that ye believe on Christ His Son, whom He hath sent !
There are certain ones God sent His Son to save, like Matt 15:24
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Now primarily its the Work of God the Holy Spirit, when He comes to one of the Sheep of the Lost Sheep of Israel, whether jew or Gentile [Jn 10:16] with the Gospel, causing it to be unto them the Power of God, which causes them to believe Rom 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
That word power here is the same greek word here attributing believing to the Power of the Holy Ghost Rom 15:13
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power G1411 of the Holy Ghost.
The word is the greek word dynamis and means:
Gill writes:
Paul indicates that believers did believe by the working of His Great Power Eph 1:19-20
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Now the way to know whether or not the Spirit energized the Gospel with Power, its when the one is caused to believe Rom 1:16, believing is the result of the Gospel being energized by the Spirit ! It gives it positive effectiveness and application, resulting in their believing !
But wonder if one does not believe the Gospel, or believe on Christ ? That means merely they were not of His Sheep Jn 10:26
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
They are not even suppose to believe because they are not His Sheep and therfore He did not come to save them Matt 15:24 !
So we are impelled to believe that when Jesus made the statement in Jn 6:29, it can only mean to His Sheep, for it was many that it was not God's will to believe, but had been appointed to disobedience 1 Pet 2:8
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
In fact they were made to stumble at the word by the decree and purpose of God ! That too was the work or doing of God Matt 21:42
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 9
To believe on Christ, even though a person does it, for God does not believe for man, but its a work of God Jn 6:29
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
It is God's business, Employment that ye believe on Christ His Son, whom He hath sent !
There are certain ones God sent His Son to save, like Matt 15:24
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Now primarily its the Work of God the Holy Spirit, when He comes to one of the Sheep of the Lost Sheep of Israel, whether jew or Gentile [Jn 10:16] with the Gospel, causing it to be unto them the Power of God, which causes them to believe Rom 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
That word power here is the same greek word here attributing believing to the Power of the Holy Ghost Rom 15:13
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power G1411 of the Holy Ghost.
The word is the greek word dynamis and means:
Gill writes:
Paul indicates that believers did believe by the working of His Great Power Eph 1:19-20
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Now the way to know whether or not the Spirit energized the Gospel with Power, its when the one is caused to believe Rom 1:16, believing is the result of the Gospel being energized by the Spirit ! It gives it positive effectiveness and application, resulting in their believing !
But wonder if one does not believe the Gospel, or believe on Christ ? That means merely they were not of His Sheep Jn 10:26
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
They are not even suppose to believe because they are not His Sheep and therfore He did not come to save them Matt 15:24 !
So we are impelled to believe that when Jesus made the statement in Jn 6:29, it can only mean to His Sheep, for it was many that it was not God's will to believe, but had been appointed to disobedience 1 Pet 2:8
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
In fact they were made to stumble at the word by the decree and purpose of God ! That too was the work or doing of God Matt 21:42
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 9
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Must be of God to hear God's Word !
Yes, Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God Rom 10:17
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
But, where does Hearing come from ? Jesus will tell us Jn 8:47
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
He that is of God simply means, he that is born of God ! 1 Jn 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Thats why this very same writer says in his epistel 1 Jn 5:1
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is[or has been] born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
This is true because it gives support to what Jesus said in Jn 8:47
He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Then cometh hearing, which cometh Faith or believing ! See the consistency and symmetry of God's Truth ?
And what happens says Jesus if we are not of God ? Jn 8:47
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Then you dont hear them, consequently no Faith ! Yes we may hear God's word physically and audibly with the natural ear, but thats meaningless when it comes to producing Faith, Jesus speaks of spiritual hearing !
Now who is it that Hears the Apostles Preaching of the Gospel ? Jn tells us here 1 Jn 4:6
We are of God as in Jn 8:47]: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God as in Jn 8:47 heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Again, the Key to hearing the Gospel as a word of Salvation to you, is being Of God !
Of ek God, the prepostion ek which means:
I.out of, from, by, away from and :
A primary preposition denoting origin
This denotes being born out of God, by New Birth, or by Spiritual Birth. So no one can hear as it speaks of in Rom 10:17 which results in Faith, unless they have been Born of God or unless they are of God ! 9
Yes, Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God Rom 10:17
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
But, where does Hearing come from ? Jesus will tell us Jn 8:47
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
He that is of God simply means, he that is born of God ! 1 Jn 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Thats why this very same writer says in his epistel 1 Jn 5:1
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is[or has been] born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
This is true because it gives support to what Jesus said in Jn 8:47
He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Then cometh hearing, which cometh Faith or believing ! See the consistency and symmetry of God's Truth ?
And what happens says Jesus if we are not of God ? Jn 8:47
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Then you dont hear them, consequently no Faith ! Yes we may hear God's word physically and audibly with the natural ear, but thats meaningless when it comes to producing Faith, Jesus speaks of spiritual hearing !
Now who is it that Hears the Apostles Preaching of the Gospel ? Jn tells us here 1 Jn 4:6
We are of God as in Jn 8:47]: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God as in Jn 8:47 heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Again, the Key to hearing the Gospel as a word of Salvation to you, is being Of God !
Of ek God, the prepostion ek which means:
I.out of, from, by, away from and :
A primary preposition denoting origin
This denotes being born out of God, by New Birth, or by Spiritual Birth. So no one can hear as it speaks of in Rom 10:17 which results in Faith, unless they have been Born of God or unless they are of God ! 9
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
The Gospel is a word of Salvation to the Saved !
Eph 1:13
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
The Gospel cannot be and is not the Gospel of ones Salvation who is yet in a lost state, that would be a false message, but it is so when one has been saved already!
The Gospel as a word of Salvation is sent to them that have been born of God, since such ones are in a saved state experimentally, here is proof of the same !
Peter writing in 1 Pet says 1 Pet 1:23
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Those who obeyed the Truth, did so through the Spirit, which meant they had been born of the Spirit, or Born again, and the Gospel is said to be preached unto them in Vs 25 ! 9
Eph 1:13
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
The Gospel cannot be and is not the Gospel of ones Salvation who is yet in a lost state, that would be a false message, but it is so when one has been saved already!
The Gospel as a word of Salvation is sent to them that have been born of God, since such ones are in a saved state experimentally, here is proof of the same !
Peter writing in 1 Pet says 1 Pet 1:23
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Those who obeyed the Truth, did so through the Spirit, which meant they had been born of the Spirit, or Born again, and the Gospel is said to be preached unto them in Vs 25 ! 9
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
The Gift of God !
Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Many in false antichrist religion, who exalt the flesh ability of man in their false salvation profession, do refuse to bow to the scripture testimony that Faith as it pertains to Salvation and the Spiritual things of God that its not of the natural man, but its a Gift of God through His Spirit, for the scripture teaches us that Faith is the fruit of the Spirit of Christ Gal 5:22
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith/faithfulness,.
Fruit of the Spirit is in the Genitive Case , meaning describing what kind of fruit, its fruit out of the Spirit, not out of the flesh, and faith or faithfulness is that kind of fruit, its out of the sphere of the Spirit !
Even the word fruit clarifies the origin of Faith, its the word karpos and one of its meanings is :
I.
fruit
A.
the fruit of the trees, vines, of the fields
B.
the fruit of one's loins, i.e. his progeny, his posterity
II.
that which originates or comes from something, an effect, result
A.
work, act, deed
B.
advantage, profit, utility
C.
praises, which are presented to God as a thank offering
D.
to gather fruit (i.e. a reaped harvest) into life eternal (as into a granary), is used in fig. discourse of those who by their labours have fitted souls to obtain eternal life
In this case its the Spirit, faith and the other graces of Vs 22 are the effect or result of the Spirit!
Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Many in false antichrist religion, who exalt the flesh ability of man in their false salvation profession, do refuse to bow to the scripture testimony that Faith as it pertains to Salvation and the Spiritual things of God that its not of the natural man, but its a Gift of God through His Spirit, for the scripture teaches us that Faith is the fruit of the Spirit of Christ Gal 5:22
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith/faithfulness,.
Fruit of the Spirit is in the Genitive Case , meaning describing what kind of fruit, its fruit out of the Spirit, not out of the flesh, and faith or faithfulness is that kind of fruit, its out of the sphere of the Spirit !
Even the word fruit clarifies the origin of Faith, its the word karpos and one of its meanings is :
I.
fruit
A.
the fruit of the trees, vines, of the fields
B.
the fruit of one's loins, i.e. his progeny, his posterity
II.
that which originates or comes from something, an effect, result
A.
work, act, deed
B.
advantage, profit, utility
C.
praises, which are presented to God as a thank offering
D.
to gather fruit (i.e. a reaped harvest) into life eternal (as into a granary), is used in fig. discourse of those who by their labours have fitted souls to obtain eternal life
In this case its the Spirit, faith and the other graces of Vs 22 are the effect or result of the Spirit!