psalms109:31
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the child giving back the money because the money will not bring back their son they let drown while they should of been watching him in the pool. this is hypothetical
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Faith a gift
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psalms109:31
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Is Faith a gift by grace that only chosen person has by which they have done nothing to receive.
How is this not Hyper-Calvinist if they already has the necessary ingredients to be saved?
God has done nothing through the preaching of the word that they don't already have.
The preaching of the word has to give them something, but if they already have it, then they don't need it to be saved.
You are saved by grace through faith a faith you already have?
How is this not Hyper-Calvinist if they already has the necessary ingredients to be saved?
God has done nothing through the preaching of the word that they don't already have.
The preaching of the word has to give them something, but if they already have it, then they don't need it to be saved.
You are saved by grace through faith a faith you already have?
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Yes, look at verse 26. Verse 26 describes their state BEFORE he was sent to them. In other words, they already had a nature opposed to God and when the gospel was preached to them their increasing resistance (hardening) demonstrated it because like clay exposure to light only hardens it. It is clay at the beginning and the sun simply manifests its nature.
psalms109:31
Active Member
Another reason a child will not take or give back the money is because they are mature now and want to take care of themselves and not to depend on their parents any more for any reason.
There is many reason why some will not accept the free gift. It is best to really get to know that person before we can spread the hope in Jesus Christ, you can't if they will not let you in. It is not probably why you think why, they don't. It might be because they heard from many before you who didn't live, practice the life they profess. They may have been disappointed so many times with others. They may feel or have been forced into something they were not ready for before and don't want to go through that again. You really can't find out about the person and the reason why until you get to know them. I always look for the positive in a negative world if it wasn't for my wife i wouldn't see the negative. I see the positive, because I have witness first hand a non-believer who mocked Christians and made fun of them turn to Jesus. It was through some who loved him that Christ worked through even while he was mocked and made fun of by him.
There is many reason why some will not accept the free gift. It is best to really get to know that person before we can spread the hope in Jesus Christ, you can't if they will not let you in. It is not probably why you think why, they don't. It might be because they heard from many before you who didn't live, practice the life they profess. They may have been disappointed so many times with others. They may feel or have been forced into something they were not ready for before and don't want to go through that again. You really can't find out about the person and the reason why until you get to know them. I always look for the positive in a negative world if it wasn't for my wife i wouldn't see the negative. I see the positive, because I have witness first hand a non-believer who mocked Christians and made fun of them turn to Jesus. It was through some who loved him that Christ worked through even while he was mocked and made fun of by him.
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Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Yes, but WHY was it their state BEFORE he was sent? Because they had been exposed to God's revelations for years and have rebelled thus "BECOMING CALLOUSED." They aren't born like that. If they were, then what point would Paul possibly be making to say, "Otherwise they might see, hear, understand and repent?" And what point is the contrast with the Gentiles, who "will listen," if indeed both are in the same inborn condition of being Totally unable to see, hear, understand and repent?
That is the issue you are not addressing, IMO.
when adam fell, by willfully choosing to sin against the Lord his God...
ALL of us afterwards were declared guilty of that crime, we ALL received same as him in judgement by God...
physical and spiritual death, so we are born sinners who confirm that by choosing to sin!
Was Adam able to willfully choose otherwise?
God does NOT "program" anybody!
we all freely choose about Jesus, just as sinners we will freely choose to always reject Him...
God applies effectually Grace towards those whom He has chosen, and they are enabled to respond to the Gospel and to receive Christ!
Scripture please? Where is this enabling in scripture? We certainly are not chosen before Salvation unless you happen to be a Jew.
MB
Not one verse applies to every man, Not one verse says all men cannot understand. Your wrong the Bible does not make that claim. In every case each verse is addressed to Jews.
MB
Greektim
Well-Known Member
Ezekiels description of the New Covenant makes mention of this:
Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and a new spirit I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh,
Eze 11:20 that they may walk in my statutes and keep my rules and obey them. And they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
Eze 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.
Ps... Jews were not chosen for salvation... they were chosen to be God's people, a light to the gentiles, and to be a kingdom of priests to declare to the nations the God of Israel.
Isn't it true if you belong to God you do not belong to Satan. There is no difference. You cannot be God's and not be saved. Maybe not in the way we are today yet at least set aside and kept from destruction. There is not one Gentile Chosen for Salvation before faith in Christ. Epheisians says we are chosen in Him. In other words you cannot be chosen unless you are in Him
MB
Faith precedes a heart change, this can be demonstrated. Suppose you are on a jury. The prosecution shows very convincing evidence that the defendant murdered a child. You cannot help but feel animosity and anger toward the defendant, though he claims he had nothing to do with the crime.
The next day the defense shows a video proving the defendant was in another part of town at the time of the crime, plus they present several witnesses who were with him at the time. You are now convinced beyond doubt the defendant was innocent, and his testimony true.
Would your heart attitude toward the defendant change? Yes, you would now view him as a good person who is the victim of mistaken identity. You would probably feel very guilty for your previous anger and animosity toward him.
This is how faith changes the heart. When a man believes God hates him, he cannot help but feel animosity toward him. But when a person hears the gospel that Jesus indeed loves him so much that he died for him, and that he will freely forgive all who come to him, his heart is immediately changed. He is no longer afraid of God, he is no longer angry toward God, or views God as an enemy who would crush him. His heart is changed forever.
Faith precedes the heart change. No one will love Jesus until he is first convinced Jesus loves him.
The next day the defense shows a video proving the defendant was in another part of town at the time of the crime, plus they present several witnesses who were with him at the time. You are now convinced beyond doubt the defendant was innocent, and his testimony true.
Would your heart attitude toward the defendant change? Yes, you would now view him as a good person who is the victim of mistaken identity. You would probably feel very guilty for your previous anger and animosity toward him.
This is how faith changes the heart. When a man believes God hates him, he cannot help but feel animosity toward him. But when a person hears the gospel that Jesus indeed loves him so much that he died for him, and that he will freely forgive all who come to him, his heart is immediately changed. He is no longer afraid of God, he is no longer angry toward God, or views God as an enemy who would crush him. His heart is changed forever.
Faith precedes the heart change. No one will love Jesus until he is first convinced Jesus loves him.
Aren't both Jews/gentiles saved the same way by God though?
he elects and chooses out from among their ranks a faithful remnant for His good pleasure, whom He calls/draws/enables/saves to become His people?
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I agree with calls and draws but I haven't read even one scripture that says we are enabled for Salvation. Enable is extrabiblical. We are saved by Jesus Christ. Before Christ Jews were set aside in paradise to await the gospel being preached to them by Christ. No one could wear the righteousness of Christ before Christ died for them.
MB
What do you mean by a FAITHFUL remnant? According to your view no one has faith before regeneration, and God never elects according to something found in the man. Is this a Freudian slip? Do you now hold to the non-Cal view?
You slipped up.
Not at all!
as the Apostle paul himself was inspired by HS to record that at that time, there was a chosen remnant saved out by God, that were "faithful" from the sense of God preserving out a selected group. a small group out of the larger, for His own purposes and glory!
And I do NOT hold to a large difference time wise between regeneration/faith. just as repentance/faith flip side at same time, so is regeneration /faith, at least according to our perspective!
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Where does the Bible say we are all declared guilty of Adam's sin? God says the son shall not bear the iniquity of his father in Ezekiel 18:20, I know of no verse that says we bear Adam's, or any other person's sin, God says the soul that sinneth shall die.
Show me the verse(s) that say we are guilty of Adam's sin.
freeatlast
New Member
No that would be wrong. Faith and salvation are instantaneous. Belief proceeds heart change but not faith. Belief is believing in the absence of repentance. When repentance is experienced then faith is born and salvation is experienced at the moment of faith. There is no gap. A person cannot have faith and be lost. They can believe and be lost but not have faith and be lost.
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You may not see a difference, but there is. How can you be regenerated before faith, you would be a born again sinner!
Faith takes time. You must hear the gospel and understand it before you can believe it. But according to your view a person must be regenerated to have the ability to understand spiritual matters. So, for that amount of time you would be a born again unbeliever!
This shows the fallacy of your view.
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